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  1. #1

    First Ones = Time?

    In the Guardian of the First One boss, the room is covered in sand. The Bronze Shrine in Dragonblight is also covered in Sand, as is Tanaris where the Caverns of Time are.

    This is a pretty big jump, but there are several other hints that have people theorizing the First Ones (and the "seventh aspect") are Time. The statuette artifact in Korthia has whispers that reflect the idea of Time and there are several hints of an "infinity" theme going on with Oribos, Bastion (see: the skybox with a big golden infinity logo) and now the Arbiter/Jailer's sigil. As we know, the Infinite Dragonflight is all about time.

    What are the odds that the First Ones are only first because they time traveled back the beginning?

  2. #2
    First Ones=Fate

    Time is part of the Order as we have already been told several times.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    First Ones=Fate

    Time is part of the Order as we have already been told several times.
    Aman'thul is the only instance we have where time is connected to Order. He could've been complicit in a First One scheme or plan.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    First Ones=Fate

    Time is part of the Order as we have already been told several times.
    True. But I could see Blizzard re-writing the story to somehow tell us that they weren’t actually connected and that there was some other reason for us believing that

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Derpules's Avatar
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    First Ones = Their Blizzard creators. Sylvanas actually knows she's in a video game and is working against Bro-culture from the inside. She's trying to Agent Smith her away out of the Azeroth/Blizzard Matrix.
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  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Don't put stock into whispers as 'evidence', they never pay off. As for the First Ones being literal Time Lords, considering Danuser is bent on making out they're the progenitors of everything with his hype of vague and substance-less hints of 'they existed' I doubt they will just be regulated to the 'nu cosmic force of time' or that will be their main focus but it could definitely end up highlighted in some way in the form of how they 'started' things. Personally I imagine it'll be in the form of a big stupid clock.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    First Ones=Fate

    Time is part of the Order as we have already been told several times.
    Why? Because Aman'Thul is of time? Eonar is a titan of order but is also associated with *life*, a separate cosmic force.

    I think it's far more likely that "time" and "life" are separate from order, but Eonar and Aman'Thul are the titans of *ordering* those other forces.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Yeah, there is no doubt. First Ones are time travelers. "What are the odds that the First Ones are only first because they time traveled back the beginning?" This question is good. The Everliving Statuette probably thinks that the Everliving are the true First Ones but I think they are just full of it. They haven't created anything so far but chaos and destruction.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by EntertainmentNihilist View Post
    Eonar is a titan of order but is also associated with *life*, a separate cosmic force.
    Almost like Danuser's rush to replace/one up Metzen was about as carefully thought out as handing a toddler an open can of paint.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    Yeah, there is no doubt. First Ones are time travelers. "What are the odds that the First Ones are only first because they time traveled back the beginning?" This question is good. The Everliving Statuette probably thinks that the Everliving are the true First Ones but I think they are just full of it. They haven't created anything so far but chaos and destruction.
    And then when they're loot pinatas in 12.0, we find about the Before Ones and the Neverdying.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Almost like Danuser's rush to replace/one up Metzen was about as carefully thought out as handing a toddler an open can of paint.
    One god being in charge of life isn't very thrilling stuff, especially when Elune was around at the same time proving that concept wrong.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    One god being in charge of life isn't very thrilling stuff, especially when Elune was around at the same time proving that concept wrong.
    Or the current writers aren't capable of making it interesting. Worked fine for the Greeks, Norse, and more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Almost like Danuser's rush to replace/one up Metzen was about as carefully thought out as handing a toddler an open can of paint.
    I mean, wasn't Eonar the "Lifebinder" even in the old WC3 companion material? I don't think this is a new "problem". The only difference (if I remember correctly) was that Titans were beings of Light rather than Arcane.

    It makes sense to me though, Titans are "order". "Order" is a state / property of *something else*, there's no such thing as pure/raw "order" (or chaos for that matter).

    So it makes sense that there would be Titans for "ordering" different things. A "Life Titan" to order life, a "Time Titan" to order time, a Titan to order matter / elements, etc. The Titans aren't the fundamental "gods" of these things, they are the beings of order who impose order on them.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Aman'thul is the only instance we have where time is connected to Order. He could've been complicit in a First One scheme or plan.
    God, seriously? Steve Denuser literally said that time is an aspect of Order and therefore time has no meaning in Shadowlands as it is the territory of Death.

    Not to mention the fact that MAGES in the game can use the magic of time. Hell, on Draenor, Khadgar could have resurrected you just rewinding time back.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by EntertainmentNihilist View Post
    Why? Because Aman'Thul is of time? Eonar is a titan of order but is also associated with *life*, a separate cosmic force.

    I think it's far more likely that "time" and "life" are separate from order, but Eonar and Aman'Thul are the titans of *ordering* those other forces.
    God, seriously? Steve Denuser literally said that time is an aspect of Order and therefore time has no meaning in Shadowlands as it is the territory of Death.

    Not to mention the fact that MAGES in the game can use the magic of time. Hell, on Draenor, Khadgar could have resurrected you just rewinding time back.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Aman'thul is the only instance we have where time is connected to Order. He could've been complicit in a First One scheme or plan.
    but time seems a a core componeent of order, think of it.

    One of the basic aspects of physics is time and space , when you think of buildiign blocks of matter, time is one of the obivious compeonents, I can't help but think it is tied to both order and life.


    Now fate, fate is different, fate can utislise time, but time isn't fate based, nor is luck. Fate can be delayed etc, it uses other components, but isn't necessarily based on them.

    If they are going to play fate as a thing, or luck too, then the First ones tied tot hat makes a bit more sense than say time.

    But then, they have to define what they mean, so we won't know until i guess
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpules View Post
    First Ones = Their Blizzard creators. Sylvanas actually knows she's in a video game and is working against Bro-culture from the inside. She's trying to Agent Smith her away out of the Azeroth/Blizzard Matrix.
    By making their creators go bankrupt.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    God, seriously? Steve Denuser literally said that time is an aspect of Order and therefore time has no meaning in Shadowlands as it is the territory of Death.

    Not to mention the fact that MAGES in the game can use the magic of time. Hell, on Draenor, Khadgar could have resurrected you just rewinding time back.

    - - - Updated - - -



    God, seriously? Steve Denuser literally said that time is an aspect of Order and therefore time has no meaning in Shadowlands as it is the territory of Death.

    Not to mention the fact that MAGES in the game can use the magic of time. Hell, on Draenor, Khadgar could have resurrected you just rewinding time back.
    Yeah maybe. Some things they say in interviews don't make much sense honestly.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by EntertainmentNihilist View Post
    Yeah maybe. Some things they say in interviews don't make much sense honestly.
    But this particular thing makes sense. We have known for a long time that time is part of the Order. We see this on the example of Aman'thul and on the example of spells of mages in the game.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    But this particular thing makes sense. We have known for a long time that time is part of the Order. We see this on the example of Aman'thul and on the example of spells of mages in the game.
    Not really, because then time shouldn't exist in the shadowlands & the twisting nether. But clearly it does. It's just perhaps a bit more chaotic.

    And again, Eonar controls life, mages also control frost & fire, mages can mess with souls, mages can create chaos, etc. It doesn't mean those things are *a part of* order / arcane. Just because Aman'thul can control time doesn't mean time is a part of order.

    Time is also connected to the light and void, light being the narrow path and void being "possibilities". And death couldn't even exist without time (mortals decay and die over *time*).

  19. #19
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by EntertainmentNihilist View Post
    Not really, because then time shouldn't exist in the shadowlands & the twisting nether. But clearly it does. It's just perhaps a bit more chaotic.

    And again, Eonar controls life, mages also control frost & fire, mages can mess with souls, mages can create chaos, etc. It doesn't mean those things are *a part of* order / arcane. Just because Aman'thul can control time doesn't mean time is a part of order.

    Time is also connected to the light and void, light being the narrow path and void being "possibilities". And death couldn't even exist without time (mortals decay and die over *time*).
    Steve Denuser said that in Shadowlands, time doesn't matter because there is only eternity that matters. Perhaps it is there, but it is tied to Order, not Death. And the time in the Twisting Nether is really strange, however, Archimonde was able to come from the future and the Twisting itself is above all alternative timelines (like Shadowlands).

    And again, Life and Elements are separate forces on the cosmological map, in contrast to Time.

    Light and Void are fighting for control over the real world, it is not surprising that they see the future. Mortals die in REALITY, where time is important. Only then do they go to Shadowlands. This does not in any way show the connection between Death and time. And by the way, almost all mortals descended from the Titans.

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