Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    I am Murloc! Asrialol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    5,577
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    From the perspective of the suits, they probably think that WoW is on the way out and that there is no point pouring more money into it (hence why Shadowlands didn't get a huge marketing campaign like the prior 3 expansions). More than likely they will switch to mobile games and trying to milk the Warcraft IP as much as possible before it is completely exhausted of customer goodwill.

    I personally think Ion and Danuser should be thrown off of WoW (Ion can still design raids though) and the game should be redesigned to cater to casuals again, but that's not going to happen.
    "Again". The game was never made for casuals specifically.

    Also people who name individuals in the company are usually the most clueless people. Always makes me chuckle. Though I guess that people not knowing how a business works, let alone a game company, shouldn't come as a surprise.

    If Ion or Danuser was replaced right now but nobody said anything about it, you wouldn't notice. Not now, not in a year.
    Hi

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by BronzeCondor View Post
    They can still milk WoW, I could see them putting together a stunning Legion-esque expansion that'll invigorate the playerbase again.

    As was mentioned elsewhere, they need to implement a form of player-housing. They could even monetize accessories and make a killing on $$$.
    Yea, adding more stuff to the shop will make the game better.

    Looking forward to adding a bot even that raids and pvp's for me ... while my only gameplay becomes admiring a list of achievements.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    and you need the veteran core who are attuned to that familiarity to keep it around.
    The issue is that those very veterans pathed the way for how WoW currently is.

    Tom Chilton was one of the first who talked about "we should do more expansion specific features" back in MoP.
    Yeah, that's the progenitor of borrowed power right there.

    In a perfect world, i'd say you're right, but considering that Blizzard seems to place a heavy emphasis on seniority over competence(that's how Reforged got its Art director), you need new people.
    The issue with those veterans is simply that they're those who first started with this whole "Rockstar" attitude and "fuck what the community thinks", Ghostcrawler, at least as far as communication is concerned was an exception, but that's about it.

    Leadership needs to clean house and get rid off those senior developers that frankly see themselves as demigods above to any criticism.
    Ego is necessary as a developer to get a coherent design, but when it's not working, you need the humility to change, that humility is absent and has been absent because the veterans have sired developers to not give a fuck about what anyone else has to say.

    These veterans couldn't even see the value in their old design (See J. Allen Brack for reference).
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-08-15 at 02:56 PM.

  4. #44
    Banned Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    9,589
    Quote Originally Posted by Violent View Post
    Funny how they still put on tournys for "museum" games.

    Is that how you felt about stick-ball too?
    There are a lot of chess tournaments as well, that doesn't mean that chess isn't old af. Your point?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    "Again". The game was never made for casuals specifically.
    It very much was, from the very beginning. I still remember those salty EQ 'pros' calling WoW "MMO for grandmas", "World of Casualcraft", "EQ for dummies" and other supposedly witty remarks.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by stross01 View Post
    I'd love to hear about the other few that are debatable.

    I'm not sure M+ is the success that some think it is. That's dying of thirst in a desert, finding a puddle of cloudy water in a hoof print then claiming it was a success of development. There was nothing else to do in BFA and Shadowlands is no different.
    raider.io has about 46 million runs recorded for Shadowlands alone so far. I'm pretty sure that's a bit bigger than a puddle. So yeah, M+ is a great success.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    raider.io has about 46 million runs recorded for Shadowlands alone so far. I'm pretty sure that's a bit bigger than a puddle. So yeah, M+ is a great success.
    Mythic+ was the thing that revitalized this game. Without it and a BfA following WoD would have been the death of the game. Dungeons stopped being relevant after few weeks in the older expansions after TBC all the way until Legion for power progression. It was sorely needed.
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

  7. #47
    In case you wondered where all the talent went:

    https://www.dreamhaven.com/about

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by stross01 View Post
    What talent?

    What successful systems have you seen in a Blizzard IP in the last 5 years?
    Loot boxes

  9. #49
    Banned Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    9,589
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    Loot boxes
    Don't forget dem tokens

  10. #50
    I am Murloc! Asrialol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    5,577
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    There are a lot of chess tournaments as well, that doesn't mean that chess isn't old af. Your point?

    - - - Updated - - -



    It very much was, from the very beginning. I still remember those salty EQ 'pros' calling WoW "MMO for grandmas", "World of Casualcraft", "EQ for dummies" and other supposedly witty remarks.
    Well, I guess you could argue that vanilla was, which I suppose makes sense since they didn't necessarily know what the players would mostly be doing. Then TBC and every expansion since has had raiding as the main focus (plus m+ when that came), which only a fraction of the playerbase actually participated in.
    Hi

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    Yea, adding more stuff to the shop will make the game better.

    Looking forward to adding a bot even that raids and pvp's for me ... while my only gameplay becomes admiring a list of achievements.
    The gaming experience has fallen to the wayside in favor of Microtransactions.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    From the perspective of the suits, they probably think that WoW is on the way out and that there is no point pouring more money into it (hence why Shadowlands didn't get a huge marketing campaign like the prior 3 expansions). More than likely they will switch to mobile games and trying to milk the Warcraft IP as much as possible before it is completely exhausted of customer goodwill.

    I personally think Ion and Danuser should be thrown off of WoW (Ion can still design raids though) and the game should be redesigned to cater to casuals again, but that's not going to happen.
    I see this "...wow should be catered to casuals again..." a lot on these forums. SL has been the most casual friendly expansion ever. There are no grinds. You are basically gifted a legendary and starter gear. You can work towards near heroic quality gear in world content. Asking for wow to be casual again? It's already here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  13. #53
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    19,105
    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    Blizzard lives and dies on investors these days. From an investor standpoint, WoW is a sinking ship not worth saving, because they don't have the investment that actual game players do.

    Chances are, sadly the opposite is going to happen. WoW will eventually enter maintenance mode because it's not making them enough money and they'll back themselves behind mobile game development.
    From an investor standpoint, right now WoW is printing money. What you want is for it to keep printing money, which in this case means applying pressure to design the game with long-term profits in mind. The easiest way to secure long-term profits is to secure a large player base, as the more people paying and playing, the more chances you have of hitting on a whale who hits the cash shop hard.

    If an overabundance of seasonal systems are both draining development resources because they keep scrapping entire systems and making new ones from whole cloth every expansion, and alienating players in the process, an investor is going to want to pressure the company to cut down on that until they get the fundamentals nailed back down and their development pipeline is running smoothly again, so they stop wasting money and manpower on things that distract the team from core development due to continually reinventing the wheel and having to basically beta test them for half the expansion on live servers. Wasted time is wasted money and wasted money is anathema to any investor worth their salt.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  14. #54
    If BfA and Shadowlands proved anything, it’s the lack of talent, skill and creativity in the WoW team.

    It’s not only the WoW team though, it’s the entire company. Blizzard hasn’t released anything worthwhile in 6 years. Nothing since Overwatch. Warcraft III Reforged was a disaster and Diablo Immortal is just an online game. The company is devoid of any creative input and I don’t think they will be able to solve this issue at all.

    You have to realize that Classic is the version of WoW that’s bringing in the huge revenue right now, as they stated in the financial report. A 14 year old WoW expansion is creating revenue that’s more important than the retail revenue seems to be, otherwise they would have mentioned Shadowlands in their report, but they have not. This is basically showcasing all the issues Blizzard has at the moment.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Mythic+ was the thing that revitalized this game. Without it and a BfA following WoD would have been the death of the game. Dungeons stopped being relevant after few weeks in the older expansions after TBC all the way until Legion for power progression. It was sorely needed.
    M+ is just the path of least resistance to gear up your character, pve wise. In SL it took a big hit, yet it's so much more common to see people with mythic ilvl gear that come from m+ than from the raid itself.

    So, it's just a no brainer. It's not that m+ is the godsend system everyone likes, it's just the easier way to gear up and do stuff. You don't need a guild, a raiding schedule, boss wipes, all the stuff that makes you spend a lot of time for probably nothing since personal loot and rng.

    Given how many players before m+ didn't raid and suddendly had a way to get awesome gear, i don't see really any other possibile outcome.

    I'm not saying m+ are bad or that are easy or generally are a bad thing. I don't like them but i think they're a good system. My point is that it doesn't really matter if they're good or not, the rewards are just too good to pass over them.

    And if you don't believe me, just look back at S1 SL where everyone and their mother did PvP for the same exact reason. Most players don't care about anything else than rewards, and will go the fastest/more efficient way to them.

    They solved the issue between pvp and pve with the ilvl changes, they can do the same for raid and m+ and they would have solved everything.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    From the perspective of the suits, they probably think that WoW is on the way out and that there is no point pouring more money into it (hence why Shadowlands didn't get a huge marketing campaign like the prior 3 expansions). More than likely they will switch to mobile games and trying to milk the Warcraft IP as much as possible before it is completely exhausted of customer goodwill.

    I personally think Ion and Danuser should be thrown off of WoW (Ion can still design raids though) and the game should be redesigned to cater to casuals again, but that's not going to happen.
    shadowlands sold over 3.8 million copies up to day 1. Thats like 200 million euro for just sold licenses. Including sub fees, tokens, services etc. Thats a quarter billion euro. For the first day of the expansion. Its still a huge money maker. No way they are just gonna say "meh, fuck it"

    But its bleeding. It will only go down if they don't fix the issues. Fixing the issues will only make people coming back. Meaning even more money for them

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    M+ is just the path of least resistance to gear up your character, pve wise. In SL it took a big hit, yet it's so much more common to see people with mythic ilvl gear that come from m+ than from the raid itself.

    So, it's just a no brainer. It's not that m+ is the godsend system everyone likes, it's just the easier way to gear up and do stuff. You don't need a guild, a raiding schedule, boss wipes, all the stuff that makes you spend a lot of time for probably nothing since personal loot and rng.

    Given how many players before m+ didn't raid and suddendly had a way to get awesome gear, i don't see really any other possibile outcome.

    I'm not saying m+ are bad or that are easy or generally are a bad thing. I don't like them but i think they're a good system. My point is that it doesn't really matter if they're good or not, the rewards are just too good to pass over them.

    And if you don't believe me, just look back at S1 SL where everyone and their mother did PvP for the same exact reason. Most players don't care about anything else than rewards, and will go the fastest/more efficient way to them.

    They solved the issue between pvp and pve with the ilvl changes, they can do the same for raid and m+ and they would have solved everything.
    I think for whatever reason, easy to gear up, fun or anything, mythic+ in itself revitalized the dungeon scene in WoW. I agree that gearing up through it is a strong reason why so many do it now(and the point about PvP strongly reinstates my argument in another thread of one single change in the game can make a player base change how they play the game) and in BfA mythic+ got another boost since they removed tier sets going into it.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2021-08-15 at 08:37 PM.
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    I think for whatever reason, easy to gear up, fun or anything, mythic+ in itself revitalized the dungeon scene in WoW. I agree that gearing up through it is a strong reason why so many do it now(and the point about PvP strongly reinstates my argument of one single change in the game can make a player base change how they play the game) and in BfA mythic+ got another boost since they removed tier sets going into it.
    Oh, for sure. I don't really see the appeal in them and i just run them for the loot, but i get why many people like them. But that also boosts the total runs number, without saying if people reallyblike them or they do them cause it's a tick in their to-do list.

    I would just like to see players rewarded for the type of content they want/like to do instead of mixing everything with the only result that everyone "needs" to do everything (or feels compelled to).
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by stross01 View Post
    What talent?

    What successful systems have you seen in a Blizzard IP in the last 5 years?
    Blizzard hasn't innovated in like 10 years.

    They're just leeching off past success and the customer goodwill is rapidly declining meaning the company is cornered. They just don't know what to do anymore.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Oh, for sure. I don't really see the appeal in them and i just run them for the loot, but i get why many people like them. But that also boosts the total runs number, without saying if people reallyblike them or they do them cause it's a tick in their to-do list.

    I would just like to see players rewarded for the type of content they want/like to do instead of mixing everything with the only result that everyone "needs" to do everything (or feels compelled to).
    Yeah, totally agree there. In SL myself I raid on my main, then m+ on one alt then pvp on another. I am that kind of player though who can do it that way, I can see why those at the top gotta do it all, and that many more feel compelled to do them.
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •