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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Torgent View Post
    You're real caught up on the word Night in their name, which doesn't mean they hate the sun. They aren't vampires. They're elves that worship Elune. They call themselves Night Elves as an homage to her. They are also known as the children of the stars. Stars are solar.
    stars cannot be seen during the day, night = stars and moon, day = sun, I bet most main night elves druids agree with me

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    stars cannot be seen during the day, night = stars and moon, day = sun, I bet most main night elves druids agree with me
    Suns are literally stars.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Torgent View Post
    Suns are literally stars.
    stars like the moon are associated with cold and night, the sun is one star, associated with the day and warmth

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    stars like the moon are associated with cold and night, the sun is one star, associated with the day and warmth
    The moon is not a star. You're arguing pedantics because "REEE 'Night' Elf!" Just admit you don't know what you're talking about and move on with your day <3.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Torgent View Post
    The moon is not a star. You're arguing pedantics because "REEE 'Night' Elf!" Just admit you don't know what you're talking about and move on with your day <3.
    when did I say that the moon is a star?
    I said that night is associated with the stars, also with the moon. when you look up in the sky during night you see:
    moon
    stars
    but not the sun

    when you look up during the day you see:
    the sun

    you associate night elves with the sun and it makes zero sense, are you even maining night elf druid?

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    when did I say that the moon is a star?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    stars like the moon
    I think you have memory issues. You seem to be incapable of remembering what you wrote less than 10 minutes ago.

  7. #47
    Sun walkers and seers, Tauren ‘paladins’ and sun priests, should have sunlit and warm themes. Calling golden firebirds down from the sky that sail toward the target, animations that have them kneeling playfully, calling a warm sunbeam to heal, manifesting a fire whip, fiery feathers and sunny animals, drum beats during some abilities for sound effects etc. Sunwalker visual such as calling down golden firebirds who assail the target or soar around the tauren, or communing with An'she, parting clouds to a radiant sunlight with a tribal chant or kneeling prayerfully in a sparking sunbeam to mend, or using a slick solar flare whip to damage that manifests in an instant, or raising a feathered spear or polearm (or sword -_-) high into the sky in communion with the sun for buffs, or beating drums that pulsate with the warmth of the sun, healing the wounded or cleansing the sick, their worship of the sun and belief in An'she can be thematic presence in a tauren's use of their sunpriest (seer) or paladin (sunwalker) arts.

    Night elf Druid’s tranquility calls the calm of night to the sound of woodland growls or cricket chirps, or to the dreamy plucks of harp strings. And their efflorescence places a lantern that calls a moonbeam or a gently hooting owl soaring around, or to the soothing sounds of a relaxing wind chime.

    While a tauren’s tranquility may be to play a wood pipe or raise a magical leaf or feather into the air and call an inspiriting whirlwind of colorful leaves or flowers, refreshing the weary, and their efflorescence could be to kneel or beat a drum to grow a patch of meadow grass or wheat that grows and heals.

    A highmountain Tauren’s tranquility could be be playing a pine flute carved from the branch of a pine tree, which calls the snowy winds down from the mountain, reinvigorating friends, and for efflorescence they toss a pine cone or magical seed to the area and a small pine tree sprouts upward and grows while refreshing, cool scented winds, or eagles soar around.

    Night elf priest’s spells and abilities should be moonlight inspired, with radiant beams and glows and moon wells/statues.

    A pandaren priest could use herbal medicines, teas, and healing music, as well as seals/ritualistic items, little statues and chi-ji themed spells. A pandaren priest could use medicines, rituals/ceremonies, beads, and even music. Pandaren ancient protection magic, meditation, celestial or sha themes, and traditional pandaren methods; bells, seals, coins, statues, herbs, etc. You hear traditional pandaren instruments such as bamboo flute, pipa, guqin, guzheng, zither, and gong, healing sounds in their spells that nurture and cleanse and soothe and keep harmful energies at bay.

    I hope blizzard implements a feature/path that delves into each culture. When nightborne were introduced, or pandaren or highmountain, even our original races, we get lots of lore and quests and spend loads of time understanding and getting to know their heritages, histories, cultures, traditions, customs, foods, architecture, clothing, beleifs, fighting styles, affinities, adeptness, landscapes, locations, societies, tribes, clans, ideals, morals, skills, etc. Then after, while we get glimpses and small interactions here and there, we don't have much to do with them. I understand why but as our races and their cultures are some of our most main appeal as to who and why we play which characters we prefer, I think our cultures are some of the most colorful and exciting and unused potential in the game as an enticing feature.

    A return to race/culture would be awesome, exploring their ways more often than we usually get to. Like how each artifact explored its history and abilities and interaction with the lore and world, and unlocked features and visuals and abilities and spells and hidden appearances over time. Blizzard could just give us all our race's culture-identity in our versions of our arts, but I was trying to think of a more interactive way so that it's fun and engaging to unlock these things instead of just getting them. I'm fine with just receiving them too!

    A path not unlike our artifacts but instead of a weapon, we unlock our race's version of a spell or ability, so a tauren priest or paladin, through quests and so on, will eventually unlock the option to use a tauren-specific, cultural-appropriate visual for their spell or ability or animation:

    Sun walkers and seers, Tauren ‘paladins’ and sun priests, should have sunlit and warm themes. Calling golden firebirds down from the sky that sail toward the target, animations that have them kneeling playfully, calling a warm sunbeam to heal, manifesting a fire whip, fiery feathers and sunny animals, drum beats during some abilities for sound effects etc. Sunwalker visual such as calling down golden firebirds who assail the target or soar around the tauren, or communing with An'she, parting clouds to a radiant sunlight with a tribal chant or kneeling prayerfully in a sparking sunbeam to mend, or using a slick solar flare whip to damage that manifests in an instant, or raising a feathered spear or polearm (or sword -_-) high into the sky in communion with the sun for buffs, or beating drums that pulsate with the warmth of the sun, healing the wounded or cleansing the sick, their worship of the sun and belief in An'she can be thematic presence in a tauren's use of their sunpriest (seer) or paladin (sunwalker) arts.

    The option to use the default visuals and animations could be left as an option for those who prefer. Such reflection of our culture's identities in their versions of the arts gets me excited and would be a true thrill if revealed at a blizzcon! I think our spells and abilities and their visuals are too reliant on an outer source and not focusing enough nor allowing our cultures to nurture them, hone them in their own ways. Priests are too old god themed, druidism is too emerald dream themed, etc. Our cultures may borrow or learn from these sources, but they'd each, through their own beliefs, traditions, adeptness, customs, histories, etc, develop the art differently, in line with their peoples. Some generic/universal arts may be present/shared, but other would visually look different (such as forms and totems do).

    A pandaren priest could use medicines, rituals/ceremonies, beads, and even music. Pandaren ancient protection magic, meditation, celestial or sha themes, and traditional pandaren methods; bells, seals, coins, statues, herbs, etc. You hear traditional pandaren instruments such as bamboo flute, pipa, guqin, guzheng, zither, and gong, healing sounds in their spells that nurture and cleanse and soothe and keep harmful energies at bay.

    Pandaren sorcerers (mages) having cloud serpents in their spells and crackling with jade energies. through their culture's understandings and through their teachings of yulon, their version of ‘mage’ spells has developed differently, separated form the rest of the world on their own island and turtle, where, as an ancient culture they honed their skills, developed their wisdom, followed their own traditions, upheld their own ideals, and beliefs and whose teachings from the celestials infuses and enriches their lore and version of their arts. their magic should crackle with jade color and summon cloud serpents that whip around the caster before lunging toward the target, as a pandaren sorcerer's skills would, being developed differently and in tune with yulon than other cultures, be more exotic and original to them. Imagine a sorcerer who conjures cloud serpents as their animations for mages spells. Think sorcerer from ancient Chinese folklore, a dragon summoner, or Shang Tsung! Gong sounds or effects accompanying some spells or abilities. A simple tea or brew drinking animation for at least one spell or ability for EACH pandaren class is a must.

    vs

    Nightborne ability or spell animation could look more night-themed, dusky with bits of starry dust swirling within the spell or ability visual effect. Perhaps floating quills that scribble and hovering tomes that flit through their pages accompany the nightborn as part of a spell or ability animation. hands flow gracefully, portraying the wizardly nightborne’s perfected art, yet whimsically like a scholarly magician’s. A nightborne’s melee animations should have flare akin to fencing maneuvers and their refined spell casting animations could move elegantly, inspired by olden day French dance and etiquette.

    A snap of their finger to make their arcane familiar appear or apply simple/quick buff.

    Unrolling scroll and reading a spell.

    Drawing a rune in the air with a finger or a wand.

    A twirl of their wrist with one hand or a loose, clockwise motion of their finger, while the other hand rests on their hip or is tapping into a leyline by positioning noncasting hand palm up behind their head (as if holding a platter), and some spells should use wand animations.

    Holding their cupped or plated hands out and letting a crystal ball or a moon or off hand hover above them as they channel.

    Let's get some flowy, magician-like arm movements and a few striking yet refined animations, such as gandalf tapping a staff to the ground, or like the white witch's dance-like sword techniques. whipping a wand around a spell or two like a conductor.

    Different types of familiars such as a floating tome and quill, or a rune kitten, or a crystalline or plant creature, etc, can assist in spells by letting the nightborne read the magically turning pages or have the creature dart about or empower, perhaps familiar can be based on the nightborne's profession.

    Some intricate finger movements as if solving a puzzle cube in mid air, for the cast.

    We need our races and cultures to cast their version of their arts. there needs to be their people's nurturement an identity reflected in their what and how they wield stuff. I've been playing since the wc games and love the world and races (except for the cosmic stuff which makes everything not matter/personal anymore) think each race needs to have, visually, their culture's developed, signature aesthetics in their spells, animations, abilities, sound effects, etc. that's the only thing I'm excited for as blizzcon or expansion reveal.

    New races to play mean nothing if their culture is unused in how they appear. Why is it common and fine to assume/expect we will get druids and shaman that have custom forms and totems, but that same mindset doesn't extend to any other class? and rarely when it does, such as paladin mounts, it's special and the only difference between you and another race's version of the art. New races are exciting until you realize their entire way of being is dropped off to the side and receive copy paste visuals of every other culture. shame.

    People want ethereals, ogres, arakkoa, tuskarr, dragonkind, etc. but why, so they can cast and use the exact same looking stuff as every other race? Makes no sense to have all these special peoples and lands and stories, only to copy paste. why when they have their special histories, heritages, cultures, traditions, ideals, customs, affinities, adeptnesses, etc, you waste all that. The players would love to play their race's version/mastery of the arts they wield.

    Arakkoa are my favorite race, and they along wtih all other deserve their kit to be honored and respected and upheld. An arakkoa sorcerer calling dark storm of crows by raising a talon into the air and tongue flicking in opened beak, or, perching silently in a meditative state, cleansing themselves of harmful effects, or, a cursed arrakoa's awesome hobble/skulk disguises more agility than an enemy thinks, and they shake or enter a trance while casting smoky spells; trinket or beads or crystal orb in one talon, conjuring a swirly spell with the other. Even a tiny bit of that would be better than a copy and paste of another spell.

    Example, I want arakkoa more than any race I can think of, except for a rabbit race of samurai and sorcerers, but what I'd find disheartening is if they got the same exact spell and ability visuals everyone uses, a waste of a cool race if you ask me Excited for a new race or new race/class combo is only truly exciting if the culture is reflected and identity represented. Missing the opportunity and forsaking their own personal version/customs of how THEY'VE come to hone their skills from within their culture would squelch the thrill.

    Would you really want arakkoa or mok'nathal or saberon or ethereal if they all cast the same looking stuff no matter their culture?

    Let's say we get tuskarr! Do you want icy/snowy Inuit/tuskarr-inspired visuals and stout, merry animations reflective of their people, or just another/same wildgrowth everyone already uses? patch of gently falling snow around a cozy tuskarr lantern, inspiriting the weak, or just another green glowy rune every single race uses no matter their culture?

    or whomever to be playable if they have this really cool kit and culture yet their spells and ability visuals, animations and sound effects looked like everyone else's and didn't reflect their people? New classes get the full breadth of animations and visuals, yes, but I think each race should have their culture and identity represented and reflecting in their spell and ability visuals, animations and sound effects.

    I guess this to say blizzcon revealing new race or class or both are the most fun because not only do we get something truly awesome but we also know the expansions the teams involved were passionate about everything because such a huge project requires everyone loving and pouring themselves into it. The new playable race, class expansions are usually big because the addition of such features are linked to the land or lore we're exploring, and so that is usually pretty large scale and game changing going forward. But going forward, new race/class combo reveals are cringe unless we get culture identify reflected in our spell and ability visuals, animations and sound effects, and new playable races are fun on the surface but as soon as the reveal shows the new playable race casting the same exact stuff we all already cast, it's less exciting because it's copy and paste.

    I love the game, and as much as I play, I'd play 100 percent more if I knew my tauren was waiting for m e with his culture's spells and abilities as part of his kit. I'd also be a whole heck of a lot more excited to play other races and classes knowing each had their own depth and culture enriching their spell and ability visuals, animations, and sound effects! Do it, blizzard, even if it takes a long time like updated models!

    I mean, we'd look and feel and play like new classes, at least graphically, and that freshness and appropriateness unraveling as we journey will create an invigorating effect and make me want to log on even more and be with my character, and our characters would feel like they are progressing themselves in a very real, deep, natural and personal way. Seeing my spells as a tauren not only fit my cultural identity with meadows of grass for efflorescence, my nightborne's fancy movements while casting, my pandaren's eyes and paws crackling with jade energy as twin could serpents whirl around him before darting towards the foe, but also knowing they're of my people's or of my own style, would be breathtaking.

    This is something we could unlock as a path like artifacts/appearances, or they could trickle them in outside of game like updated models I guess, but I think it would be cool as a return to our race/refamiliarize ourselves with our race kind of exploration, that way we are not only gaining cool rewards like our artifacts, we are also exploring our race's handling of the story from their ways and wisdoms.

    Lastly, I really like the idea of race-specific classes. A goblin tinker's kit could look more workshoppy, jittery, tarnished, having withstood haphazard blasts, while a gnome of the same class could appear more sleek and cybernetic, polished metals and glinting gears. Mechagnomes could be similar to gnomes but perhaps have some hologram or more futuristic version. Their decals and lights would be unique to their contraptions, and animations would be custom, with nuts and bolts flinging about. This is just one way for the teams to start enriching the races and classes. I don't have an opinion on the tinker discussion often going on but it is easy to see the potential in tailoring classes to the race.

    If you want health and longevity and a breath of fresh air for the game, stop envisioning its future with its past. And stop letting the wow teams do less. Skins, glyphs, etc, would be giving them an excuse to do less, it would be letting them get away with not considering us players and our attachment to our characters and the world they live in. Our races should have their arts whether trained or honed, reflecting them more than they do now, and by default, not with the use of a glyph or skin. are we never see our own very special an unique cultures shine in our spells and abilities? Will all new and allied races use the same exact looking stuff, always? Think about what we deserve as loyal players and customers and fans.

    When you see the people who like race-specific druid forms and culture-appropriate shaman totems, you know, the signature aesthetic spells and ability visuals that are race-specific and culture-appropriate, offering reflecting our identities, it's because its personal and fitting, and it makes sense that different peoples would have unique versions of their arts. This should extend to most spells and abilities, visually, because the culture nurtured and honed and developed their art differently, separately from other races, and therefore have it's own unique visuals reflecting the people's identity, which is made up their beliefs, traditions, ideals, history, masteries,etc

    Most of our spell and ability visuals, animations, and sound effects, should be represented by our race's and culture's identity as they've individually nurtured and developed their arts according to their beliefs, traditions, lands, ideals, affinities, adeptness, heritage, etc. Proof is every new race people are excited for totems and forms, why, because they are signature and fitting per race. Except now they give the same animal graphics/visuals for all druid races, and same looking starting gear for everyone even if you're not human, removal or race-themed gear, and potential cross faction, all of which remove identity and meaning from areas that should be receiving MORE themed identity, not less! they make everything the same now! Soon all customization will extend to everyone instead of being for the race. Nightborne customization for orcs because of complainers.

    No point in being excited for new playable races if there's no identity and everyone uses each other's graphics and visuals, our special backgrounds ignored, unique cultures and signature arts unused.

    The reveal that would get me excited at Blizzcon would be culture identity in our kits. Race-specific, culture-appropriate spell and ability visuals, animations and sound effects.

    We cast the same looking stuff no matter the culture.
    Last edited by snugg; 2021-09-11 at 05:32 AM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I think you have memory issues. You seem to be incapable of remembering what you wrote less than 10 minutes ago.
    "stars like the moon", this means "stars as well as the moon"
    english isn't my main language, was my sentence incorrect?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Torgent View Post
    The moon is not a star. You're arguing pedantics because "REEE 'Night' Elf!" Just admit you don't know what you're talking about and move on with your day <3.
    Yea but to be fair the Moon and the Stars in the druid class are considered Arcane while the Sun is Nature. Thats just how Blizzard designed the spec, so I can see why they would say that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chubathingy View Post
    But anyway it's OK to be jelly of the tallest midget.

  10. #50
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torgent View Post
    Suns are literally stars.
    Which is irrelevant, as the franchise (and most fantasy franchises really) distinguish between the stars and the sun.

    Stars are not solar, they are Astral.
    Hence balance druid building up Astral Power to use their star themed spells to deal Astral damage, which is the damage school combining nature and arcane damage.
    Which is the whole concept Balance is built around.

    Sun is supposed to represent nature magic, Moon the arcane (hence why most of your solar spells deal nature damage, and most of your moon spells arcane damage) you use lunar and solar spells to build up Astral power (which is a combo of both) which you then spend.
    Last edited by Arafal; 2021-09-11 at 07:22 PM.

    Trans Rights are Human Rights // Elune Says Queer Rights!


  11. #51
    Druids in WoW started out as your classic dnd style druid and druid from everquest them developed and fleshed out its identity over time into a sun and moon laser chicken with multiple skins.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Rootsbum View Post
    I stopped playing a druid when they became solar/lunar. It was the nature-part that brought me in and I remember not enjoying starfire because it felt weird.
    So... You never played a druid since Diablo 2 ?

  13. #53
    When druids were launched they were basically 'the' night elf class. Unfortunately they basically rolled the entire night elf culture into the druid class and this is the result.
    Balance druid should have been a priest class in place of discipline since it was night elf priests whom used moon magic, not druids.
    Balance should have been replaced with a nature based caster spec that uses thorns vines and poisons. Unfortunately there is no other class that you could attach that kind of fantasy to meanwhile priest could have and should have had the balance druid stuff (minus moonkin form for obv reasons)

    Its all too late now though as boomkin is too iconic to change

  14. #54
    Scarab Lord crakerjack's Avatar
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    Yea balances rotation doesn’t feel good at all. I’m not a fan of being locked into either lunar. Feels bad using starfire in ST scenarios or wrath in AoE scenarios. Convoke and BOAT were the only fun aspects of balance and blizzard nerfed it.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    It’s a part of your celestial ancestry. Don’t forget that Eonar and Aman’thul are also druids.
    Eonar and Aman'tul are definitely not druids. This is the same as saying that Khaz'goroth and Golgannet are shamans. And if I can understand why you mentioned Eonar, I have no idea why you mentioned Aman'Thul.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gd8 View Post
    I don't mind some sun/moon spells but to revolve the entire spec around it was extremely stupid and the moon shit really only fits night elves. I'd much prefer if the spec used spells more akin to insect swarm, hurricane, typhoon, entangling roots, wrath, etc. Druids aren't supposed to be arcane mages.
    Yes, have you seen Warden in Teso? Summon grizzlies, swarms of insects, plants, roots. The way a druid should be.

  16. #56
    I agree it does feel incongruent.

    I'd guess they did it because they couldn't think of clear polarities for nature and arcane and sun and moon are easily contrasted, so they just forced it.

    If the game had devs that actually cared at the time, I'm sure it'd be different.\

    Like many, many other things in the game.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    What REPLACEMENT are you referring to? ALL druids get moonfire which was a vanilla spell all druids got. ALL druids get Wrath which was a vanilla spell. The only thing that changed was they ADDED sunfire for balance druids.
    Wrath was originally a green ball of lightning with no connection to solar themes. They changed the graphic to when they changed the spell to Solar Wrath a while back, changing it to a solar theme. It may be back to being called Wrath, but it is a very different aesthetic from the original.

    Sunfire essentially replaced Insect Swarm, which was Balance's second DoT until it was removed and REPLACED with Sunfire.

    They also removed Hurricane in favor of Starfall (I believe there was a time where they had both, but I might be wrong), though that one's a Lunar spell.

    Don't get me wrong, I prefer the solar spells, but they most definitely did replace nature themed spells with solar themed spells.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    "stars like the moon", this means "stars as well as the moon"
    english isn't my main language, was my sentence incorrect?
    Yes. That sentence means "stars such as the moon", which only makes sense if you think the moon is a star. "Like" does not mean "as well as", it means "of similar nature as" in this context. See "alike".

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroticaine View Post
    Wrath was originally a green ball of lightning with no connection to solar themes. They changed the graphic to when they changed the spell to Solar Wrath a while back, changing it to a solar theme. It may be back to being called Wrath, but it is a very different aesthetic from the original.
    It got connected to the Sun as early as the first incarnation of Eclipse, which was back in BC. That's also when the Moon/Sun duality got introduced to the spec, and that has stayed ever since. Besides that, it was a ball of green lightning with no connection to anything sensible whatsoever. The spell never made a whole lot of sense before they turned it into a miniature sun. IIRC, the graphics change predates the name change, though. The former happened in WoD, the latter with Legion.

  19. #59
    I agree with you. The lunar/solar system is also very boring to play
    ...that's just my opinion, anyway.

    All of this cosmological stuff is too boring for me. I'd like to get Warcraft back, please. my thing is killing defias and orcs.

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