Mega-Dungeons should be scalable to 10-man.

[Shelly]

So I love Taz'Avesh. I think it's a great dungeon from start to finish and hard mode is incredibly fun, even if the last boss is scaled so much harder than the others in the instance.

That said I feel like I should be able to bring in 8 to 10 folks instead of just 5.

I think it would fulfill another small raiding niche that we're lacking in Retail and make things more fun all around.

This is especially true for most small raiding guilds were you like the people but well, seeing the majority parse green is an unexpected delight. Suddenly now you've got a nice easy 2 hour mini-raid you can joke your way through and get some really great gear. Filling much the same niche as Kara, ZA, Malygos, Black Dragon Sanctum and even Tournament of the Crusader 10 once did.

[Temp name]

You can do the current raids as 10 man.

[Lady Atia]

You can do the current raids as 10 man.

The problem with that is that currently, raiding has no seasonal reward besides a FoS for heroic/Mythic and a title for Hall of Fame. Everything else could as well not exist as you can just farm it a few months or years later. It just feels pointless. They really need to add a mount and/or a title to "Ahead of the Curve" in order to get people care about anything but Mythic again.

[Sondrelk]

Assuming you are aiming this at the niche group of players who are in groups from 5-10 people it would still be difficult to only have a single instance for those people, and additionally only give this halfway through an expansion.

I mean, let's imagine you are part of that mythical group of people that only play in groups of 6-9, preventing both regular dungeon runs and raids, you would have to wait for months, upon months before you get anything that caters to your demographic, and said content is only relevant for a single patch at best.

[Demsi]

That would be cool, i really enjoyed doing UBRS as 10 and 15 man

[rayvio]

the original UBRS and Kara were among the best dungeons in WoW, mechagon and Taz'avesh are fun but you're right, a ten-person (scaled) option would be great

[Shelly]

You can do the current raids as 10 man.

Yeah. I know.

But there's a difference between a widely sprawling raid with 10 bosses, versus a compact narratively tight dungeon with 8 bosses.

One of the biggest being just the intimacy and fun of doing a small scale raid with lower consequences. That incentive and enjoyment isn't there as much for the large raid compared to the mega-dungeons.

[TbouncerT]

Yeah. I know.

But there's a difference between a widely sprawling raid with 10 bosses, versus a compact narratively tight dungeon with 8 bosses.

One of the biggest being just the intimacy and fun of doing a small scale raid with lower consequences. That incentive and enjoyment isn't there as much for the large raid compared to the mega-dungeons.

There are already things in the game that does this. no need to add more clutter. there is also a thing that designs are based on size. one of the reasons why dungeons are so tight as you put it is because they're tailored for 5 people. raids are bigger to make room for 10+ people. would you want to have 10 people playing in the stockades?

it sounds like you want something easier than raids but a little harder than dungeons. there are already so many avenues in wow to get gear. plus they tend to break down these mega-dungeons eventually, so there would be no point in them being more than 5 people.

also "fun of doing a small scale raid with lower consequences." that is basically what dungeons are.....not to mention what some of the other comments have said.

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That would be cool, i really enjoyed doing UBRS as 10 and 15 man

With how big it was, I was really surprised that BRD was only 5 people. I miss that ridiculously big dungeon. lol

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The problem with that is that currently, raiding has no seasonal reward besides a FoS for heroic/Mythic and a title for Hall of Fame. Everything else could as well not exist as you can just farm it a few months or years later. It just feels pointless. They really need to add a mount and/or a title to "Ahead of the Curve" in order to get people care about anything but Mythic again.

yeah, it's weird that there's like what one or two AOTC that actually gave something other than an achievement. maybe we'll get one for the last raid of the expansion. they should do like a title for all raids and like add a mount to the final one.

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Filling much the same niche as Kara, ZA, Malygos, Black Dragon Sanctum and even Tournament of the Crusader 10 once did.

these are also raids and not dungeons.

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you can joke your way through and get some really great gear.

no, just no.

[God Save The King]

With how big it was, I was really surprised that BRD was only 5 people. I miss that ridiculously big dungeon. lol

BRD/Strat/Scholo were 10 man raids! It wasn't until the big gear/dungeon overhaul in 1.10 that they were reduced to 5man. BRD was really hard with 5 and my memories as an early 60 was raiding it as a 10 man. You probably did it late Vanilla/TBC/LK if you did it as 5

[Puupi]

Unfortunately I found Tazavesh hard mode way too easy and undertuned. Mechagon hard mode was harder when it was released.

[shoc]

All Dungeons should be flex 5-10, why not.

[Devilyaki]

Forgot they added this cause it’s stupid mythic only. Just like the last one I didn’t do…

[Shelly]

Forgot they added this cause it’s stupid mythic only. Just like the last one I didn’t do…

Highly suggest you do it. It's really fun, bright and colorful. All things which are a bit lacking in Shadowlands where every zone has a specific pallet tone so there's not really much vibrancy or contrast to be seen.

[Ielenia]

I think it would fulfill another small raiding niche that we're lacking in Retail and make things more fun all around.

What do you mean with this fantastical "another small raiding niche" that we're somehow "lacking"?

We have just as many 10-man raids as we do 15-man raids, 25-man raids, and 30-man raids.

Suddenly now you've got a nice easy 2 hour mini-raid you can joke your way through and get some really great gear.

So you don't want "small raids", you want "shorter raids". There is a huge difference. Those examples you mentioned? Karazhan was not a short raid by any metric, while Malygos, Obsidian Sanctum, and ToC had both 10-man and 25-man back in the day.

[subsidalos]

So I love Taz'Avesh. I think it's a great dungeon from start to finish and hard mode is incredibly fun, even if the last boss is scaled so much harder than the others in the instance.

That said I feel like I should be able to bring in 8 to 10 folks instead of just 5.

I think it would fulfill another small raiding niche that we're lacking in Retail and make things more fun all around.

This is especially true for most small raiding guilds were you like the people but well, seeing the majority parse green is an unexpected delight. Suddenly now you've got a nice easy 2 hour mini-raid you can joke your way through and get some really great gear. Filling much the same niche as Kara, ZA, Malygos, Black Dragon Sanctum and even Tournament of the Crusader 10 once did.

One of the few suggestions that I actually like. More mid tier content at a comparable item level somewhere inbetween normal/heroic. Smaller raids/mega dungeons to help with progression for bigger raids

[cozzri]

BRD/Strat/Scholo were 10 man raids! It wasn't until the big gear/dungeon overhaul in 1.10 that they were reduced to 5man. BRD was really hard with 5 and my memories as an early 60 was raiding it as a 10 man. You probably did it late Vanilla/TBC/LK if you did it as 5

I remember doing a ton of Blackrock Depths emperor runs with a 10man group. I think very briefly when I first started, you could go in there with 40 as that was the original entrance to Molten Core.

Having the dungeon reduced to 5 players never really felt right, but look at who they hired to design dungeon/raid difficulty... Kaplan and Afrasiabi, they both ran toxic guilds in EQ and pushed elitism into WoW.

The only problem with dungeons during that era was that the quests could only be completed in a 5man group because they weren't specified for raid. Dungeon difficulty was never a problem, but it was made into a problem by incompetent developers with a hardcore agenda; they finally got what they wanted by ToC, and game started to go downhill ever since.

[Blackmist]

I'd rather they did the opposite and tweaked old raids to be 5-man "mega-dungeons".

[jazen]

everything should scale, just like elite mobs scale up the more people there are attacking it, to include dungeons, raids, and npc's. Scale up and down, so if you want to solo current content, you're able to at least try.

[Shelly]

What do you mean with this fantastical "another small raiding niche" that we're somehow "lacking"?

We have just as many 10-man raids as we do 15-man raids, 25-man raids, and 30-man raids.


So you don't want "small raids", you want "shorter raids". There is a huge difference. Those examples you mentioned? Karazhan was not a short raid by any metric, while Malygos, Obsidian Sanctum, and ToC had both 10-man and 25-man back in the day.

You really couldn't push through Kara in under 2 hours?

[neocount]

So I love Taz'Avesh. I think it's a great dungeon from start to finish and hard mode is incredibly fun, even if the last boss is scaled so much harder than the others in the instance.

That said I feel like I should be able to bring in 8 to 10 folks instead of just 5.

I think it would fulfill another small raiding niche that we're lacking in Retail and make things more fun all around.

This is especially true for most small raiding guilds were you like the people but well, seeing the majority parse green is an unexpected delight. Suddenly now you've got a nice easy 2 hour mini-raid you can joke your way through and get some really great gear. Filling much the same niche as Kara, ZA, Malygos, Black Dragon Sanctum and even Tournament of the Crusader 10 once did.

I think that's a neat idea.