Parasitic systems drive spreadsheet design is the problem, agree or disagree?

[Soon-TM]

It certainly is a huge part of the problem and if addressed properly immediate improvement will be the result. However, this is very much a good news/ bad news sort of thing. The bad news: Blizzard isn't known for paying $$$ for outside talent. The good news: I believe Blizzard realizes they can't "get away" with parasitic systems anymore.

Do they, though? And if yes, will they give some pause to their "systems" hardon? Because after the last three xpacs, I'm starting to feel a lil' bit skeptical.

[exsanguinate]

I miss the times when it was about discovering surviving a dangerous world. I never understood why some companys think you have to overcompliacte stuff in order to set up a good game. The word expansion is also losing it's meaning. Instead of expanding good ideas they always have to re-create stupid ideas and let us beta test it for another whole expansion for 15 bucks.

[erifwodahs]

Why do you think Legion's systems were good? The world quests and the artifact grinds and the RNGendaries weren't fun.

They fixed the grind and legos. Initial progression system was really good, just not alt/spec friendly until you caught up on artifact knowledge. Building on it would mean incorporating and improving, which would mean the bad parts are out. HoA literally could have been an expansion to the system, not a half baked replacement.

[Echo of Soul]

warfronts and islands (and torghast i guess) could have been content that stood on it's own.

if those had been good nobody would be losing their shit now.

so it's not like they didn't try, it's just that they failed to execute 3 decent potentially non-parasitic ideas.

True. If they had more confidence in warfronts or islands and made them truly optional they could've made them harder since they no longer had to be completed by everyone and they would probably be more successful.

[Nerovar]

warfronts and islands (and torghast i guess) could have been content that stood on it's own.

if those had been good nobody would be losing their shit now.

so it's not like they didn't try, it's just that they failed to execute 3 decent potentially non-parasitic ideas.

Torghast fails precisely because the progression systems attached to it (soul ash) are parasitic. No one would complain about Torghast if it was a fun side-game where you can earn cosmetics (like mage tower). But it's pushed as a mandatory source of legendaries in order to make you play the game mode in the first place. But the decision to make Torghast a requirement for your legendary progression is completely arbitrary.

It's the same thing as with Island Expeditions and azerite power. The only reason you did that content was farming AP for your Heart of Azeroth in order to unlock powers on the gear you already earned somewhere else. It's a completely unnecessary system that doesn't tie into the rest of the core mechanics and can be removed without any detriment to the game.

Torghast (Soul Ash) = old legendary system but tied to a new expansion specific system that doesn't otherwise integrate with the core mechanics
Island Expeditions (Azerite Power) = old tier set system but tied to a new expansion specific system that doesn't otherwise integrate with the core mechanics

Both of these are mini-games that are introduced solely for the purpose of wasting your time in order to earn things that were previously given to you by simply playing the game.

[Qnubi]

It's hard to share your optimism. People have been complaining about these types of systems ever since they started introducing them in WoD. Then they doubled down on them in Legion and people complained vocally. Then they doubled down on them in BfA and people still complained. Then they doubled down on them again in Shadowlands but Blizzard still seems to be unmoved, thinking their next system will be a big hit. Or they simply don't care because it's serviceable, easy to do and enough people buy their expansions even if they're full of these cheap parasitic systems that feel absolutely terrible to use.

Each and every expansion more and more people leave, there has to be a point where they must act and do something different unless they are managed by incompetent people that want WoW to die. They also don't have a replacement for their WoW cashcow yet, Diablo? No monthly income, no MTX so far. D4 is still far in the future and nobody knows if it will be popular. Starcraft is dead. HS is bleeding players as well and card-games as a whole are on a downtrend. Overwatch needs OW2 to be revived which is also far away.

[m4xc4v413r4]

lol, look someone that saw a youtube video about parasitic systems and how WoW is an example of it and thought it was a good idea to make a thread, and a low effort one lets be honest, about the subject as if the idea is new or it came out of his head at all... good stuff

[jazen]

soon enough we'll be back to huge talent trees and hybrid builds, thereby completing the circle.

[Nagawithlegs]

You know people quit WoD beceause there was nothing to do right? I wonder what people will complain about when there's no power system whatsoever.

[Qnubi]

soon enough we'll be back to huge talent trees and hybrid builds, thereby completing the circle.

Not untrue, games are art. Art is revived again and again, just like fashion. It would never surprise me if old-school game design becomes popular again. The fun part about humans is the strive for change, even if something is good, we feel the need for change.

[Myokony]

Which youtuber was it this time that put a buzzword in your head?

[Soon-TM]

Boy, a youtuber uses a term and suddenly everyone is scrambling to use it, too.

Yes, it is almost as if your average, run-of-the-mill evil youtuber had already heard (or rather read) the phrase in several websites, so he decided to use it as well in order to get more clicks

[Qnubi]

You know people quit WoD beceause there was nothing to do right? I wonder what people will complain about when there's no power system whatsoever.

That game design is better than a game design that makes people leave. If you run out of things to do you are finished, you can move on. Finishing something can feel good. Quitting something because you hate it, is never a good feeling. If both designs result in the same amount of players leaving, one is arguably better because one reason is always negative, while the other can be positive.

[Soon-TM]

You know people quit WoD beceause there was nothing to do right? I wonder what people will complain about when there's no power system whatsoever.

I'd very much be playing WoD (plus M+) instead of running Choreghast and Blandthia all the! $#@&ing weeks.

[Tyris Flare]

wod with m+ would have actually been a decent expansion. Wouldnt have solved the raid pacing, but there would have been stuff to do.

[Nagawithlegs]

I agree that an expansion that's just raiding, mythic+, maybe a new GAMEPLAY system that's not mandatory would be a good expansion, but you absolutely know people would still be unsubbing and complaining at the same rate. Instead of "I quit" it's "I finished".

People are asking for a life replacement.

[Soon-TM]

I agree that an expansion that's just raiding, mythic+, maybe a new GAMEPLAY system that's not mandatory would be a good expansion, but you absolutely know people would still be unsubbing and complaining at the same rate. Instead of "I quit" it's "I finished".

People are asking for a life replacement.

Quitting because you finished the content is good. Quitting because you gave up on playing systems whack-a-mole is quite worse.

[Ivarr]

Why do you think Legion's systems were good? The world quests and the artifact grinds and the RNGendaries weren't fun.

Not having them would make Legion way less fun. People would complete the Broken Isles in a week, burn out on mythics and then rightfully claim it's just WoD all over again.

I agree that an expansion that's just raiding, mythic+, maybe a new GAMEPLAY system that's not mandatory would be a good expansion

That's what we have. Shadowlands is just a lobby for your LFG content.

[Myradin]

You know people quit WoD beceause there was nothing to do right? I wonder what people will complain about when there's no power system whatsoever.

Probably that they don't feel powerful or special enough anymore, and that just grinding valor points (Which like many other 'forced activities' the player has long outlived needing to actually do for its content) is boring and lifeless.

[Nagawithlegs]

Probably that they don't feel powerful or special enough anymore, and that just grinding valor points (Which like many other 'forced activities' the player has long outlived needing to actually do for its content) is boring and lifeless.

Makes you wonder if you can please both sides of the fanbase with an expansion or just one group each time.