There's literally no reason we shouldn't be able to reforge Frostmourne as DK's

[LedZeppelin]

as tirion as my witness we would break it in half again

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Frostmourne only purpose is to be used by the lich king, noone else can use it, if its remade its no longer the same weapon, arthas was not really a deathknight as all the powers he wielded was within the blade itself, it just made him undead and stole his soul so he essential became a puppet for the actual lich king

I...what? Arthas was absolutely a Death Knight. He was THE Death Knight. When you start the Undead campaign in Warcraft 3, he is a Death Knight. The multiplayer DK unit uses all of his abilities, which not coincidentally are all DK abilities like Death Coil and Death and Decay. Arthas was unambiguously a Death Knight.

[kenn9530]

I...what? Arthas was absolutely a Death Knight. He was THE Death Knight. When you start the Undead campaign in Warcraft 3, he is a Death Knight. The multiplayer DK unit uses all of his abilities, which not coincidentally are all DK abilities like Death Coil and Death and Decay. Arthas was unambiguously a Death Knight.

Just picking up a runeblade and gradually becomming undead does not make a person a deathknight, deathknights require years of constant training so there would be no point in the starting area of the deathknight class otherwise. The lich king itself is not a deathknight either since bolvar didnt just become a deathknight from wearing the helmet, plus a runeblade is not a deathknight weapon either since they existed thousands of years before deathknights even became a thing.

[Alanar]

Just picking up a runeblade and gradually becomming undead does not make a person a deathknight, deathknights require years of constant training so there would be no point in the starting area of the deathknight class otherwise. The lich king itself is not a deathknight either since bolvar didnt just become a deathknight from wearing the helmet, plus a runeblade is not a deathknight weapon either since they existed thousands of years before deathknights even became a thing.

I believe Kel'thuzad calls Arthas a death knight a couple of time in the undead campaign as well.

[kenn9530]

I believe Kel'thuzad calls Arthas a death knight a couple of time in the undead campaign as well.

He is an undead knight wielding a runeblade, you cant be called a ture deathknight if you dont posses similar power without actually using the runeblade itself, thats the whole point in training so they become deathknights, not instantly become one just because they use a runeblade and become undead.

[Claymore]

He is an undead knight wielding a runeblade, you cant be called a ture deathknight if you dont posses similar power without actually using the runeblade itself, thats the whole point in training so they become deathknights, not instantly become one just because they use a runeblade and become undead.

Bro, you're completely out of your mind. And Arthas DIDN'T immediately become a Death Knight; recall he acquire Frostmourne while still a Paladin. He kills Mal'ganis, spends a few weeks or months learning the basics, then returns to Lordaeron as a lvl 1 Death Knight. End of discussion.

I mean, it's cool if you feel like "players shouldn't wield Frostmourne, it's just too iconic" or something like that. I might not agree, but I can respect the sentiment. But suggesting Arthas wasn't a Death Knight is just... hilariously off-base.

[kenn9530]

Bro, you're completely out of your mind. And Arthas DIDN'T immediately become a Death Knight; recall he acquire Frostmourne while still a Paladin. He kills Mal'ganis, spends a few weeks or months learning the basics, then returns to Lordaeron as a lvl 1 Death Knight. End of discussion.

I mean, it's cool if you feel like "players shouldn't wield Frostmourne, it's just too iconic" or something like that. I might not agree, but I can respect the sentiment. But suggesting Arthas wasn't a Death Knight is just... hilariously off-base.

No where in lore did it state arthas did any training in becomming a deathknight, it would actually take years to learn the abilities and spells to become a deathknight so dont talk BS, by technicality you could call him a deathknight but he was not a true deathknight. Just wielding a runeblade and it turning you undead does not make one a deathknight.

[Arkthugal]

No where in lore did it state arthas did any training in becomming a deathknight, it would actually take years to learn the abilities and spells to become a deathknight so dont talk BS, by technicality you could call him a deathknight but he was not a true deathknight. Just wielding a runeblade and it turning you undead does not make one a deathknight.

My DK learned all of his abilities merely by being raised as one, what's this "it would take years of training" crap.

[kenn9530]

My DK learned all of his abilities merely by being raised as one, what's this "it would take years of training" crap.

The DK you leveled had already been one for years and training, also it would take years to max out your level but that cant be translated into a game. Learning magic takes a long time, thats why dks were first made form souls of warlocks so they would retain knowledge of magic without the need for training, thats also the strong point of a runeblade, it already has abilities in the blade which just need to be activated.

[Arkthugal]

The DK you leveled had already been one for years and training, also it would take years to max out your level but that cant be translated into a game. Learning magic takes a long time, thats why dks were first made form souls of warlocks so they would retain knowledge of magic without the need for training, thats also the strong point of a runeblade, it already has abilities in the blade which just need to be activated.

No he wasn't, he was freshly raised in the intro. Or did you miss the wagons full of corpses being raised into DKs?

[Claymore]

No where in lore did it state arthas did any training in becomming a deathknight, it would actually take years to learn the abilities and spells to become a deathknight so dont talk BS, by technicality you could call him a deathknight but he was not a true deathknight. Just wielding a runeblade and it turning you undead does not make one a deathknight.

The WC3 Death Knight was essentially an "anti-Paladin". Like, most of their abilities are a direct parallel to Paladin abilities, effectively being "Evil-spec Paladins". It wouldn't have taken much time for him to learn the basics, since he was by-and-large the *ORIGIN* of the WC3 Death Knight (no relation to the WC2 Death Knight at the time, other than name).

Runeblades are a big deal. It's been implied in the past that, wielding a "Runeblade" (differentiated from "weapons with runes on them") would gradually turn ANYONE to a Death Knight. Runeblades were previously described as being almost sentient, slowly influencing and corrupting their wielder. Given Arthas willingly gave himself to that corruption, and was a formidable Paladin already, his transition to Death Knight would've been pretty quick. And remember; just because he returned to Lordaeron as a DK, doesn't mean it was a "max-level" Death Knight. Not that gameplay mechanics are generally relevant to lore, but it would be totally understandable that he was still learning to twist his Light-given abilities into their "Unholy" equivalents.

[kenn9530]

The WC3 Death Knight was essentially an "anti-Paladin". Like, most of their abilities are a direct parallel to Paladin abilities, effectively being "Evil-spec Paladins". It wouldn't have taken much time for him to learn the basics, since he was by-and-large the *ORIGIN* of the WC3 Death Knight (no relation to the WC2 Death Knight at the time, other than name).

Runeblades are a big deal. It's been implied in the past that, wielding a "Runeblade" (differentiated from "weapons with runes on them") would gradually turn ANYONE to a Death Knight. Runeblades were previously described as being almost sentient, slowly influencing and corrupting their wielder. Given Arthas willingly gave himself to that corruption, and was a formidable Paladin already, his transition to Death Knight would've been pretty quick. And remember; just because he returned to Lordaeron as a DK, doesn't mean it was a "max-level" Death Knight. Not that gameplay mechanics are generally relevant to lore, but it would be totally understandable that he was still learning to twist his Light-given abilities into their "Unholy" equivalents.

The whole purpose of a runeblade is to increase the users power with no training, because its the runes themselves in the weapon that hold all the powers the user is granted, runeblades themselves are not deathknight weapons as they existed for thousands of years and they dont all turn the user undead, learning magic and such in WoW takes years especially more so if you only learnt spells not even remotely connected with what deathknights use, a mage or warlock could learn those abilities faster because its at least closely connected types of magic, but a paladin is on the opposite scale.

No he wasn't, he was freshly raised in the intro. Or did you miss the wagons full of corpses being raised into DKs?

In reality the starting zone itself would take years and you wouldnt just go out in the world after a few hours, or can even learn an ability in a few hours, but that doesnt make for good gameplay.

[Glazey]

The 2 1handers were only fragments of the blade and nowhere near as powerful as frostmourne itself.

Frostmourne is a weapon for sole use by the lich king, you are not the lich king so no you cant have frostmourne. Its not a weapon that should ever touch a players hands.

Are we really still using this argument? We used stronger weapons in Legion, we also went ahead and made those weapons even stronger.

Paladins used the weapon that destroyed Frostmourne.

[kenn9530]

Are we really still using this argument? We used stronger weapons in Legion, we also went ahead and made those weapons even stronger.

Paladins used the weapon that destroyed Frostmourne.

The weapon was made for the lich king and noone else, noone deserves the weapon or a transmog of it plain and simple, the weapons in legion didnt actually get any stronger they just gathered power for one single use at the end of the expansion for the story, the weapons themselves remained at the strength they have always been, weapons in a game have to get a little stronger for the player or they would be useless.

[Glazey]

The weapon was made for the lich king and noone else, noone deserves the weapon or a transmog of it plain and simple, the weapons in legion didnt actually get any stronger they just gathered power for one single use at the end of the expansion for the story, the weapons themselves remained at the strength they have always been, weapons in a game have to get a little stronger for the player or they would be useless.

Transmog is outside the lore. As much as you wanna say "DESIGNED ONLY FOR LK" it doesn't really work with its stronger opposite being obtainable and transmog.

The original design for Ashbringer was to obtain it through a multiple expansion quest chain, but they pulled the plug on that. They decided they didn't want those kind of items obtainable by players. Infact, they expressed regret having Corrupted Ashbringer/Atiesh as a drop in Vanilla Naxx for that reason along with Warglaives dropping off of Illidan. Which is why after BC and until Legion, we never obtained a established weapon again.

[Goldielocks]

Frostmorne has been made obsolete by Shadowlands. The only reason anyone would want it is purely on nostalgia and that’s an incredibly dumb reason to do anything.

[kenn9530]

Transmog is outside the lore. As much as you wanna say "DESIGNED ONLY FOR LK" it doesn't really work with its stronger opposite being obtainable and transmog.

The original design for Ashbringer was to obtain it through a multiple expansion quest chain, but they pulled the plug on that. They decided they didn't want those kind of items obtainable by players. Infact, they expressed regret having Corrupted Ashbringer/Atiesh as a drop in Vanilla Naxx for that reason along with Warglaives dropping off of Illidan. Which is why after BC and until Legion, we never obtained a established weapon again.

Ashbringer is not stronger than frostmourne, tirion basically just asked for a cheat buff that was able to actually destroy it, its just part of the story otherwise the lich king could of easily won.

The fact is the weapon is for the lich king and him alone, ashbringer and other such weapons are way below in strength in comparrison. The players should just forge thier own personal legendery weapon and keep improving it over multiple expansions, with transmog that at least can change the look so you dont get bored of it.

[Arkthugal]

In reality the starting zone itself would take years and you wouldnt just go out in the world after a few hours, or can even learn an ability in a few hours, but that doesnt make for good gameplay.

Hmmmm no, a few days at most.

[Glazey]

Ashbringer is not stronger than frostmourne, tirion basically just asked for a cheat buff that was able to actually destroy it, its just part of the story otherwise the lich king could of easily won.

The fact is the weapon is for the lich king and him alone, ashbringer and other such weapons are way below in strength in comparrison. The players should just forge thier own personal legendery weapon and keep improving it over multiple expansions, with transmog that at least can change the look so you dont get bored of it.

Ashbringer is stronger because story says so. In the story they are telling, the Light triumphed over Death. Ashbringer (Light) defeated Death (Frostmourne).

The fact is, it doesn't matter if it was solely forged for the Lich King cause of all the reasons I've said previously. We've wielded far stronger, important lore weapons. Creating a unique challenge for Death Knights to unlock Frostmourne as a transmog would be a neat thing. cause again, transmog isn't about lore, doesn't affect lore, doesn't change lore, it's just there to make you look cool.

[kenn9530]

Hmmmm no, a few days at most.

It takes years to learn spells and abilities not days, the whole leveling process from start to finish would be a good few years.

Ashbringer is stronger because story says so. In the story they are telling, the Light triumphed over Death.

The fact is, it doesn't matter if it was solely forged for the Lich King cause of all the reasons I've said previously. We've wielded far stronger, important lore weapons. Creating a unique challenge for Death Knights to unlock Frostmourne as a transmog would be a neat thing. cause again, transmog isn't about lore, doesn't affect lore, doesn't change lore, it's just there to make you look cool.

It wasnt ashbringer that destroyed frostmourne it was the cheat buff tirion was granted, death knights have not wielded anything stronger than frostmourne, and there is not much that is actually more powerful than frostmourne in its prime, no matter who wields frostmourne it will corrupt the soul into a puppet of the lich king, fact is if it was going to be a transmog it would of done so by now.