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  1. #81
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    I've already conceded that we won't agree on it happening or not.
    There's nothing to disagree on when it's not happening.

    That's like saying we'll have to disagree on pigs growing wings and flying away on full moons.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    We do have records of who owned slaves and who descended from those slaves. It doesn't seem that difficult to start from there and work your way forward.
    why not start from giving back natives their land?

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    That's like saying we'll have to disagree on pigs growing wings and flying away on full moons.
    Well...yeah.

    ...they flew away last month.

  4. #84
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Is this a serious consideration now? I'm speechless that this is even being considered as a solution. Reminds me of how WW2 started.
    Why am I not surprised that even the consideration of trying to make amends for one of the most gruesome crimes against humanity would leave you speechless and in despair?

    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    why not start from giving back natives their land?
    The ones that survived the mass displacement and genocide? Yeah, they should get land and reparations too.
    Populists (and "national socialists") look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world "behind the scenes". Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  5. #85
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    why not start from giving back natives their land?
    And that's the fundamental problem with historical reparations - where do you start, who gets what based on descendants, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    We do have records of who owned slaves and who descended from those slaves. It doesn't seem that difficult to start from there and work your way forward.
    You haven't done any real ancestry work. At some point some significant conclusions come from essentially guesswork or innuendo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Is this a serious consideration now? I'm speechless that this is even being considered as a solution. Reminds me of how WW2 started.
    Of course it's a serious conversation. Critical Race Theory takes us down that road.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    We do have records of who owned slaves and who descended from those slaves. It doesn't seem that difficult to start from there and work your way forward.
    Blame the sins of the great great great grandfather on the great great great grand children. I'm sure that won't radicalize young whites at all to vote down the ballot republican. It's just toxic and racist politics.

    Trump already started opportunity zones in poor metro areas such as Compton in LA. There's your "reparations."
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2021-08-19 at 12:14 AM.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphin View Post
    Aren't you describing yourself as a left winger? You did in the Taliban thread where I think you defended a bunch of armed and violent incels aka THe Taliban and now you are spewing far-right straw men?
    Defended Taliban? Clearly you're imagining things.

    When did reparations actually work to improve lives of minorities? What are you using as historical example?

    What form should they take and how will it be different from what people have already tried through last several decades?

    And on principle, yeah, I think both the Scotts and the Irish should be entitled to reparations from England.
    Good, at least you are consistent in that regard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphin View Post
    By Hitler thinking the germans need all of eastern europe so that everyone has enough room to themselves?
    By Hitler thinking that they should get what they deserve after oppression by WWI victors that wrecked their country.

  8. #88
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Blame the sins of the great great great grandfather on the great great great grand children. I'm sure that won't radicalize young whites at all to vote down the ballot republican. It's just toxic and racist politics.

    Trump already started opportunity zones in poor metro areas such as Compton in LA. There's your "reparations."
    This is a fundamentally ridiculous framing of the issue.

    Reparations are not blaming a particular individual today for crimes of their ancestors.

    It's a country making right to a group for historical wrongs.

    Any "young whites" being radicalized by the notion of reparations were already pre-radicalized by their racist parents, and blaming reparations for that is just deflection.


  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post

    Personally I find it a very convenient excuse to try and discredit people because they're not digging up some old articles.
    Personally I find it very convenient to make an unsubstantiated claim and then assert that anyone asking you to provide evidence for that claim is being "cunt-ish"

    If you're going to make a claim that a thing is happening... you should be prepared to provide evidence for it. This is not complicated.
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2021-08-19 at 12:35 AM.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Trump already started opportunity zones in poor metro areas such as Compton in LA. There's your "reparations."
    Opportunity zones are a garbage policy that (like most GOP policies) just make the rich richer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Any "young whites" being radicalized by the notion of reparations were already pre-radicalized by their racist parents, and blaming reparations for that is just deflection.
    True.

    But I think there is a point to be made in there: passing a reparations bill, no matter how morally right it would be, would probably be the single quickest way for the Dems to lose the House (and it'll never happen since the Dems are aware of this).
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  11. #91
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    True.

    But I think there is a point to be made in there: passing a reparations bill, no matter how morally right it would be, would probably be the single quickest way for the Dems to lose the House (and it'll never happen since the Dems are aware of this).
    Like, I get that.

    But the reason for that is how endemic and widespread white supremacy is, ideologically, in the United States. No other reason.

    "It's not feasible because too many of our citizens are racist as fuuuuck" is not the same thing as "it's not a good policy idea in terms of functionality".


  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Defended Taliban? Clearly you're imagining things.
    Came off that way, also with you obviously being far right.

    When did reparations actually work to improve lives of minorities? What are you using as historical example?

    What form should they take and how will it be different from what people have already tried through last several decades?
    Post WW2 they actually greatly helped healing the relationship between germany and the jewish people. You know, they seem to do quite some good if they are used to compensate groups which were historically severely harmed by your nation. And, like seriously. I'm sorry to be the messenger of bad news, but you are not a leftist. Like, you are actually on the right. I'm very sorry.

    What form? Dunno, I'm not a leader of the african american community, but I would guess you use part of a fund you establish for the sake of african-american reparations to compensate individual families whose ancestors where enslaved and spend another part for programs which support african american socio-economic issues. School funding as well as beneficial loans for african american higher education, entrepreneurship and property aquisition. Probably also funding for social services in african american dominated communities.

    Good, at least you are consistent in that regard.
    No leftist would disagree on principle that Scotts and Irish people deserve reparations as much as other victims of english colonialism. Thats your personal right wing fantasy, not reality. The difference is the priority of such reparation programs. Ireland and Scottland are economically fairly stable developed nations with governments which allow their people self-determination, Ireland more so than Scottland. African-Americans are a to this day disadvantaged minority in their country which suffer under systemic oppression and state violence.


    By Hitler thinking that they should get what they deserve after oppression by WWI victors that wrecked their country.
    Thats actually incorrect. Part of Hitlers rhetoric was invoking revanchist fantasies of the german populace which felt humiliated by the allies after WW1, but the core was actually the Nazi Racial ideology according to which the germans were entitled to the territories of in their eyes lesser races for their own prosperity. There is a reason why there happened more war crimes in the eastern front compared to the war efforts against france and britain, which were actually the victorious powers which dictated the treaty of Versailles.

    You know, you ignoring the racial element of Nazi Ideology which drove them into WW2 really makes me doubt you being a leftist.

  13. #93
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    But I think there is a point to be made in there: passing a reparations bill, no matter how morally right it would be, would probably be the single quickest way for the Dems to lose the House (and it'll never happen since the Dems are aware of this).
    It would never happen in today's political environment. We would have to see 70%+ of the eligible population voting before we could even reasonably start a reparations conversation. But as @Endus pointed, that doesn't mean it isn't a good policy/idea.

  14. #94
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    You haven't done any real ancestry work. At some point some significant conclusions come from essentially guesswork or innuendo.
    My point wasn't that it would be easy. My point is that we do have census records and other data going back that far. Would it be perfect? No, but it wouldn't be impossible like the person I was responding to is making it out to be.

    This is all besides the point anyway. The reaction to even suggesting black Americans could or should be paid reparations for slavery is evidence enough that social issues have been downplayed and ignored for over a century in the United States. It's pants-on-head stupid for certain people in this thread to suggest that we should continue to ignore these issues because it somehow follows that discrimination and exclusion will somehow resolve themselves when the BernieBros get Medicare for All. What an absolute load of horse shit.
    Populists (and "national socialists") look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world "behind the scenes". Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    It would never happen in today's political environment. We would have to see 70%+ of the eligible population voting before we could even reasonably start a reparations conversation. But as @Endus pointed, that doesn't mean it isn't a good policy/idea.
    Only 4% more to go if we look at 2020.

  16. #96
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    My point wasn't that it would be easy. My point is that we do have census records and other data going back that far. Would it be perfect? No, but it wouldn't be impossible like the person I was responding to is making it out to be.

    This is all besides the point anyway. The reaction to even suggesting black Americans could or should be paid reparations for slavery is evidence enough that social issues have been downplayed and ignored for over a century in the United States. It's pants-on-head stupid for certain people in this thread to suggest that we should continue to ignore these issues because it somehow follows that discrimination and exclusion will somehow resolve themselves when the BernieBros get Medicare for All. What an absolute load of horse shit.
    I think you and I are at least on the same page. Difficult but possible.

    The whole issue with people getting up-in-arms about the issue to begin with is precisely why Critical Race Theory is needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Only 4% more to go if we look at 2020.
    Wow, yeah - I don't think I realized that.

    Of course, we're about to see a demonstrable downturn in voting thanks to the GQP. I don't know how much longer each election cycle is going to continue to be make-or-break-it for the United States moral compass.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I think you and I are at least on the same page. Difficult but possible.

    The whole issue with people getting up-in-arms about the issue to begin with is precisely why Critical Race Theory is needed.

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    Wow, yeah - I don't think I realized that.

    Of course, we're about to see a demonstrable downturn in voting thanks to the GQP. I don't know how much longer each election cycle is going to continue to be make-or-break-it for the United States moral compass.
    Yeah, you also have to factor in midterms have lower levels of turnout typically. I’m holding off for now, but in another few months I’ll be talking about senatorial candidates with friends in states that have awful ones representing them.

  18. #98
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    The most obsequiously pro-Trump right-wing news outlet in America really, literally is paid Russian propaganda.
    -- the line that started it all

    OAN not only brought this line more attention than if they'd done nothing, but it also cost them all their own legal fees plus MSNBC's ($250,000).

    OAN is also losing hosts to Newsmax.

    The whole thing has "did not think through" stamped on its forehead in orange letters.

  19. #99
    Banned Rochana Violence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The whole issue with people getting up-in-arms about the issue to begin with is precisely why Critical Race Theory is needed.
    If CRT is trying to teach people that reparations are a good idea or required at all... then CRT definitely should not be taught to anyone ever.

    Curious to see what your reactions will be when it turns out that you'll have to end up paying for some of it yourself.
    Last edited by Rochana Violence; 2021-08-19 at 05:22 AM.

  20. #100
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    If CRT is trying to teach people that reparations are a good idea or required at all... then CRT definitely should not be taught to anyone ever.
    Someone like you would of course say that. Not a single person on this forum is surprised by your statement.

    Just a heads up - you guessing at what something is and then basing that guess on it's rejection is EXACTLY what makes the GQP the biggest threat to the United States since the Confederacy.

    If you want to know about something, look it up and learn - don't guess and make an ass of yourself. Be better.

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