The Most evil of every race

[masterjc]

hmmm... we have a stellar crew:


Human: Arthas (then Kel'thuzzad)
Orc: Gul'dan (then Garrosh)

Draenei: Kil'jaeden (then Archimonde)
Thalassian Elf: Sylvanas (then Dark'han)

Night Elf: Azshara (then Xavius)
Worgen: none

Forsaken: Putris
Tauren: Magatha Grimtotem

Dwarf: King Thaurissian
Gnome: King Mechagon

Goblin: Gallywix
Panda:

Troll: Prophet Zul

Interesting how several horde leaders actually make the list of most evil of race. However, it's the so called pretty/good races that are typically famous for virtue that have the most evil race members. (

Dalaran Human: Kel'Thuzad - dude was very evil. he is most evil human ever.
Lordaeron Human: Arthas was more like dumb and stubborn guy who got himself cursed. while KT choose his road willingly and enjoyed it
Orc: Gul'Dan. both versions. evil incarnate
Quel'Dorei: Dar'Khan Drathir - also power hungry guys who sold his own people and country to real evil for more power
Gnome: Mekgineer Thermaplugg - for personal gains and animosity vs Gelbin, he made Gnomes irradiate Gnomeregan, thus killing it's people and irradiating remaining ones (including himself)
Worgen: do not seem to have anyone evil. they are mostly result of tragic circumstances
Kul Tiran Humans: Lady Ashvane - manipulator, power hungry and ruthless bitch. betrays her own nation and any other ally to anyone for her personal gains. also she uses child labor
Gilnean Humans: nothing much here. Lord GOdfrey, who in his blind hatred for worgen, doomed his own nation by betraying his own king + allying with forsaken and betraying them as well
Alterac Humans : Lord Perenolde, who sold Human Allaince to Orcish horde and later allied himself to returned Horde again
Stromgarde Humans: Prince Galen, who killed his own father for crown, and resulted kingdom to be left in ruins. later raised by forsaken and betrayed them as well
Stormwind Human: they do not have such absolute evil guy
Wildhammer Dwarves - none here
Dark Iron Dwarves - Queen Modgud, who, using dagger of Black Empire, helped her husband, king Thaurissan orchestrate new war against other 2 clans
Mechagnomes - King Mechagon
Lightforged Draenei - none
Void Elves - none

- - - Updated - - -

Dalaran Human: Kel'Thuzad - dude was very evil. he is most evil human ever.
Lordaeron Human: Arthas was more like dumb and stubborn guy who got himself cursed. while KT choose his road willingly and enjoyed it
Orc: Gul'Dan. both versions. evil incarnate
Quel'Dorei: Dar'Khan Drathir - also power hungry guys who sold his own people and country to real evil for more power
Gnome: Mekgineer Thermaplugg - for personal gains and animosity vs Gelbin, he made Gnomes irradiate Gnomeregan, thus killing it's people and irradiating remaining ones (including himself)
Worgen: do not seem to have anyone evil. they are mostly result of tragic circumstances
Kul Tiran Humans: Lady Ashvane - manipulator, power hungry and ruthless bitch. betrays her own nation and any other ally to anyone for her personal gains. also she uses child labor
Gilnean Humans: nothing much here. Lord GOdfrey, who in his blind hatred for worgen, doomed his own nation by betraying his own king + allying with forsaken and betraying them as well
Alterac Humans : Lord Perenolde, who sold Human Allaince to Orcish horde and later allied himself to returned Horde again
Stromgarde Humans: Prince Galen, who killed his own father for crown, and resulted kingdom to be left in ruins. later raised by forsaken and betrayed them as well
Stormwind Human: they do not have such absolute evil guy
Wildhammer Dwarves - none here
Dark Iron Dwarves - Queen Modgud, who, using dagger of Black Empire, helped her husband, king Thaurissan orchestrate new war against other 2 clans
Mechagnomes - King Mechagon
Lightforged Draenei - none
Void Elves - none

Jungle Trolls - Jin'Do the Hexxer
Forest Trolls - none are absolute evil
Sand Trolls - General Jakra'zet
Dark Trolls - none
Ice Trolls - High Priestes of Loas, they killed their own loas for more power vs Lich King
Zandalari Trolls - Zul. idk what kind of Prophet he was, but he betrayed his own nation, king and wanted all to be damned under Old God powers
Ogre - Cho'Gall
Forsaken - any

[loras]

The alternative was to let his species continue to turn on itself. It's worth also noting that Gul'dan was the one responsible for that.



You're overlooking his origins a bit there. He genuinely believed he was helping his people, and genuinely believed the Draenei were some sort of threat, per his (previously accurate) prophetic dreams. When he realised he was being fooled, he tried to put a stop to it. He was actually a noble and brave orc, despite what he did afterwards.

Gul'dan has only ever wanted power.



True, but we're talking about 'evil' not 'successful at killing.'

"Painfully draining the lives of 5 year olds in front of their parents to turn them into soldiers" is pretty fucking evil.

Hmm, fair enough on Gul'dan then, though mind you the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and what Ner'zhul did was a far cry from being good, and a lot worse than what Gul'dan did.

And torturing kids might be evil, but next to the aforementioned it's a bit like "kicking the dog". Sure, evil.
Still very odd to even mention it when the rest is orders of magnitude worse.
It's a bit like trying to argue i.e. Stalin was worse than Hitler because Stalin ate meat; it's completely irrelevant to the question at that point.

[sam86]

Technically Kil'jaeden and Archimonde were never Draenei - they were of the original Eredar, and only those who left Argus and avoided the corruption of the Eredar became the Draenei. I would say the evilest of the Draenei would likely be Exarch Othaar who became the demon Socrethar. The runner-up would probably be MU Maladaar, though that's tempered somewhat by the fact that he was driven insane and redeemed later by the Naaru.

or we can see it in other view
since Eredar IS the original race and draenei are exception, from average eredar value, most evil would be 'velen' since he is the worst for his race?

or we talking about general good vs evil from all povs? blizz made lore muddy with how even light now is viewed as tyrannical fanatic just opposite to shadow instead of actual good force (check how naru enslave any race that oppose their will ...)
i don't think there is anymore good vs evil in wow, just different pov, Sargeras think he is helping world by destroy the corrupted current version to start fresh actual good one, and so on

[Aucald]

or we can see it in other view
since Eredar IS the original race and draenei are exception, from average eredar value, most evil would be 'velen' since he is the worst for his race?

or we talking about general good vs evil from all povs? blizz made lore muddy with how even light now is viewed as tyrannical fanatic just opposite to shadow instead of actual good force (check how naru enslave any race that oppose their will ...)
i don't think there is anymore good vs evil in wow, just different pov, Sargeras think he is helping world by destroy the corrupted current version to start fresh actual good one, and so on

I think we're talking "most evil" from the Doylist/external perspective, or our perspective as it were. I would also argue that, at least thus far, we've actually only seen one evil Naaru in the form of Xe'ra - the others, at least insofar as we know, have acted kindly if not altruistically towards the mortal races they've been in contact with. A single evil example can't necessarily typify an entire species. Sargeras is an example of a sort of antiheroic antagonist, one whose goals are ostensibly noble but whose means are so horrific and monstrous that they eclipse any notion of mitigating "goodness" they might otherwise have.

[Shadowferal]

or we can see it in other view since Eredar IS the original race and draenei are exception, from average eredar value, most evil would be 'velen' since he is the worst for his race?

or we talking about general good vs evil from all povs? blizz made lore muddy with how even light now is viewed as tyrannical fanatic just opposite to shadow instead of actual good force (check how naru enslave any race that oppose their will ...)
i don't think there is anymore good vs evil in wow, just different pov, Sargeras think he is helping world by destroy the corrupted current version to start fresh actual good one, and so on

Reminds me of the mistake Gary Gygax made when writing his Gord the Rogue novels. It seemed to me that he saw "lawful good" as intolerant of other alignments as seen in the condescending words and actions of a solar angel who lacked compassion, tolerance and understanding that a 2nd chance might bring a wayward soul back into the grace and light of being better.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

It’s maybe not the race itself but the personality, for example we have we have Gul’dan who is an orc and he is evil as hell but we have also Thrall who is a softie.

[sam86]

I think we're talking "most evil" from the Doylist/external perspective, or our perspective as it were. I would also argue that, at least thus far, we've actually only seen one evil Naaru in the form of Xe'ra - the others, at least insofar as we know, have acted kindly if not altruistically towards the mortal races they've been in contact with. A single evil example can't necessarily typify an entire species. Sargeras is an example of a sort of antiheroic antagonist, one whose goals are ostensibly noble but whose means are so horrific and monstrous that they eclipse any notion of mitigating "goodness" they might otherwise have.

we never saw 'evil' naaru because we never opposed them, the 1st time ever a mortal opposed them they had zero problem to just enslave him, yeah it is 'only' example, but it is a 100% correct example since it is also only time we opposed it (and if not clear, naaru was clearly wrong here)
however the problem here is way wider, in older lore we had clear evil like Gul'dan, he is evil because he is just evil, no if or but or any explanation, Blackhand was a coward power hungry who will do anything to be in position, something again blizz decided nah we need every character to be 3d, made Gul'dan victim of abuse, Blackhand actually care and think that is right and so on
And when every 'evil' character is 3D, no one is
right now every villain in wow has a reason to be villain that makes him good in his eyes at least, turning wow to be from grander view war of 2 opposite views not good vs evil, a human will see Sargeras evil but Sargeras (or KJ for example) will see what he is doing a necessary evil for greater good, and that sucks and make a fantasy-based game less fantasy
We didn't need background story for Gul'dan, or make KJ regret his actions, both those actions ruined great characters imo, Gul'dan was way better back when he was actually as he claims Evil Incarnate, not an abused emo kid, heck we didn't need to make Father Benedicus evil or make the light just a force with no will and naaru enslave any opposition in his fight

[Aucald]

we never saw 'evil' naaru because we never opposed them, the 1st time ever a mortal opposed them they had zero problem to just enslave him, yeah it is 'only' example, but it is a 100% correct example since it is also only time we opposed it (and if not clear, naaru was clearly wrong here)
however the problem here is way wider, in older lore we had clear evil like Gul'dan, he is evil because he is just evil, no if or but or any explanation, Blackhand was a coward power hungry who will do anything to be in position, something again blizz decided nah we need every character to be 3d, made Gul'dan victim of abuse, Blackhand actually care and think that is right and so on
And when every 'evil' character is 3D, no one is
right now every villain in wow has a reason to be villain that makes him good in his eyes at least, turning wow to be from grander view war of 2 opposite views not good vs evil, a human will see Sargeras evil but Sargeras (or KJ for example) will see what he is doing a necessary evil for greater good, and that sucks and make a fantasy-based game less fantasy
We didn't need background story for Gul'dan, or make KJ regret his actions, both those actions ruined great characters imo, Gul'dan was way better back when he was actually as he claims Evil Incarnate, not an abused emo kid, heck we didn't need to make Father Benedicus evil or make the light just a force with no will and naaru enslave any opposition in his fight

Opposition isn't really the sole criteria for what constitutes "evil" - one case in point one would be Illidan, whom we opposed in TBC and were later upbraided for in Legion as his cause was nobler than we knew. I also agree that Gul'dan's extended background was a narrative mistake, and I enjoyed Gul'dan's character more when he was cast more as an outside evil, in a sense; someone whose evil neither had nor required any explanation or cause. His character didn't need a retroactive background to make him "more complex," he was fine as he was; an outside context antagonist whose malice and cruelty were elemental as opposed to attributive. I actually prefer the extended lore for Sargeras, however; because his nature as a Titan and his marked turn toward "evil" feels like it requires a suitable explanation beyond him getting confused and depressed about the existence of demons and evil in the universe. His fear of the Void and his misguided crusade to exterminate life because of it make a lot more sense than his previous muddled motivation. I don't really care about Benedictus that much, but I think he made a better Twilight Father than Rommath would've based on the early Cata Alpha material.

That being said, Xe'ra's misguided actions toward Illidan can't really taint all Naaru as evil or extremist - that would be an extremely prejudicial stance on our part. No other Naaru has exhibited the same kind of hostility, indeed, they've all been helpful and beneficent towards us (those stationed on Outland specifically). While it is certainly possible the Naaru as a whole have an agenda that runs counter to "good" in the general sense, it's not in evidence in any fundamental sense. Which, for now at least, leaves Xe'ra as the outlier when it comes to evil or hostile Naaru.

[Shadowferal]

One of the biggest mistakes Blizzard made in crafting Legion was pissing all over the Naaru...

[Powerogue]

Panda:

Less sarcastic answer than last time, going with the Shado-Pan. They're not evil, but man their methods are something else.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...a/red-blossoms

[omeomorfismo]

garrosh? he just pulled out an umbric/alleria ante litteram. or you just reduce being against the "protagonists" as being evil?

[Al Gorefiend]

Reminds me of the mistake Gary Gygax made when writing his Gord the Rogue novels. It seemed to me that he saw "lawful good" as intolerant of other alignments as seen in the condescending words and actions of a solar angel who lacked compassion, tolerance and understanding that a 2nd chance might bring a wayward soul back into the grace and light of being better.

Mistake sounds a little harsh. Personally I always saw the Lawful Good alignment as the authoritarian, bureacratic, by-the-book alignment, always upholding the code of their respected figure of authority even if that authority themselves is a neutral/chaotic being. Paladins can be Lawful Good, the Light itself can be Chaotic Good or an unaligned force of the cosmos.

[mickybrighteyes]

Night Elf: Azshara (then Xavius)

with recent lore revelations? maybe Malfurion....You know... burning off countless souls to kamehameha an army and what not...