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  1. #41
    "Random Youtuber with no actual experience doing what he's trying to do, does something badly."

    Would be a more fitting title for your thread.

  2. #42
    A "friend" picked up a position at Blizzard Entertainment roughly 2 years ago and told me the active userbase was roughly ~647.000.

    Believe it or don't, most people have 3-4 alts + 1 main character totalling at 5 characters per user.

    i myself had 12 characters at lvl 60.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Artemol View Post
    A "friend" picked up a position at Blizzard Entertainment roughly 2 years ago and told me the active userbase was roughly ~647.000.

    Believe it or don't, most people have 3-4 alts + 1 main character totalling at 5 characters per user.

    i myself had 12 characters at lvl 60.
    Is that MAU as presented in the shareholder report?

    The raid achievements are account-wide so the alts shouldn't matter here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    oh look. another "wow is dead" thread badly disguised as something else. how novel. /s
    By all means provide numbers that prove the contrary. Blizzard isn't giving them so we're working with what we got.

  4. #44
    I just came here to say "who cares, play the game if you still enjoy it, stop playing if you don't" but I feel like that triggers people who don't enjoy it.


    Apparently, that is all of you.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by azka View Post
    Well. Izen had something to say about that video.
    Bellular is annoying af but this guy makes me puke. Farming views from bashing company is stupid but farming views by defending company is worst you can do. Don't be stupid fanboy defending huge companies, those are not your friends, they want your money and make them deserve it.

  6. #46
    9.1 only had 3 mil characters log on?!? Most people count for 3-5 characters so the subs must be extremely low atm. I know I logged into atleast 4 alts during the patch to do some wq.

  7. #47
    I love these kind of thread because you can clearly see all the butthurted crackwow addicted on mmo c coming all tgt

    I can get people not liking Bellular or any WoW YT that basically do videos for the sake of getting views, amazing isnt it?

    But at least Bellular is doing more research (which can be faulty or not ) than any naggy baby here to get a semi-realistic picture of the game, since Blizzard is no longer willing to give the subs number, i guess why.

    We saw the MAU decline in the shareholder papers, you cant disprove that.***
    Any 3rd party site uses Blizzard API so we can get not real time data for sure but recent, that is better than nothing.

    If you watch the video and listen carefully he is saying that are rough estimate and not the Bibble, if you dont listen when you watch videos you are just dumb.

    Also Izen video got already debunked he is a clown trying to beef hoping to get some views and more than 28k subscribers to his channel.


    ***

    Also the fact that ATVI MAU is basically tainted by the fact that if i log WoW D3 and OW in the same month it counts for 3 MAU, it should already give some red flag alarm noise to people

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    "Random Youtuber with no actual experience doing what he's trying to do, does something badly."

    Would be a more fitting title for your thread.
    Oh, he's doing excellent job, he just have different goal than you think. Bellurar/Asmon + small fishes who try to imitate them are simply tabloids that feed constant hunger to bash WoW. Apparently WoW already died, but sounds like that need is as strong as always ;D.

    Quote Originally Posted by dzd View Post
    Bellular is annoying af but this guy makes me puke. Farming views from bashing company is stupid but farming views by defending company is worst you can do. Don't be stupid fanboy defending huge companies, those are not your friends, they want your money and make them deserve it.
    I don't see any difference. Blizzard is not his buddy. Bellurar is not his buddy. It's not like something watch this other video and say "omg turned out this Bellurar is wrong gonna subsribe to WoW right away and buy 5 store mounts".

    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Yeah, no, bullshit. The very concept of "next patch" was basically unknown for most people up to TBC.
    Oh yeah, during golden age Vanilla/TBC people level for few months and just stayed subscribed because reasons. Concept of quiting until new content will arrive was alien. I forgot how many things to do were during Vanilla/TBC, thanks for reminding me.
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2021-08-22 at 11:28 AM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by BossManRoth View Post
    end game is any max level activity, not just mythic raiding. i watched the video, he took his data from API sites that dont automatically fetch data. not everyone raids. not everyone even does dungeons.
    Some of his data also includes being part of a covenant.
    Is choosing a covenant in SL now considered "optional"?
    Quote Originally Posted by TBCCLOL View Post
    We saw the MAU decline in the shareholder papers, you cant disprove that.
    Any 3rd party site uses Blizzard API so we can get not real time data for sure but recent, that is better than nothing.
    Most peope just don't watch the video, see a Yotubuer / Streamer and basically go "fuck that shit", hence most replies are a weird mixture of pure copium and deflections.

    I'm not saying those numbers are accurate, but they certainly show a not so good trend, especially the "cyclical game has a cyclical playerbase" argument is damn stupid in the light of the fact that this data includes 9.1 release.

    Imagine how those numbers will look by the end of the year, because 9.2 will certainly not come out until early 22.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-08-22 at 11:22 AM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Some of his data also includes being part of a covenant.
    Is choosing a covenant in SL now considered "optional"?
    By MMO 5head sheep for sure, the game is healthy just like their addiction

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by azka View Post
    Well. Izen had something to say about that video.
    1.5k vs 1k L-D ratio LMAO

    90% of the comments are people debunking all his points


    NICE VIDEO

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by azka View Post
    Well. Izen had something to say about that video.
    Seen that and it's sort of a hit and miss.

    The China point is correct, so in reality the real sub numbers are quite a lot higher and it's not like Chinese aren't people or something. I'm sure that other game counts them as well in their chest thumping.

    On the other hand, there are no real claims to be built from higher Painsmith and Sylvanas kills in Mythic or lower difficulties, because SoD is massively undertuned compared to CN. Painsmith is not only the first wall, but the only wall in the whole raid, where as in CN after council - Sludge and especially bloody Stone Legion Generals

    And yes I'm talking about this as a mythic raider in a guild that down Painsmith. We legit killed Guardian in sub 1 hour after killing Painsmith and Fatescribe in about 2 hours after that. KT is nothing to write home about either. It's a joke.

    So trying to say just because we recorded more M.Sylv kills than M.Dena kills for the period as some sort of talking point is silly, because 2 raids are vastly different when it comes to difficulty curve.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2021-08-22 at 11:27 AM.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by TBCCLOL View Post
    I love these kind of thread because you can clearly see all the butthurted crackwow addicted on mmo c coming all tgt

    I can get people not liking Bellular or any WoW YT that basically do videos for the sake of getting views, amazing isnt it?

    But at least Bellular is doing more research (which can be faulty or not ) than any naggy baby here to get a semi-realistic picture of the game, since Blizzard is no longer willing to give the subs number, i guess why.

    We saw the MAU decline in the shareholder papers, you cant disprove that.***
    Any 3rd party site uses Blizzard API so we can get not real time data for sure but recent, that is better than nothing.

    If you watch the video and listen carefully he is saying that are rough estimate and not the Bibble, if you dont listen when you watch videos you are just dumb.

    Also Izen video got already debunked he is a clown trying to beef hoping to get some views and more than 28k subscribers to his channel.


    ***

    Also the fact that ATVI MAU is basically tainted by the fact that if i log WoW D3 and OW in the same month it counts for 3 MAU, it should already give some red flag alarm noise to people
    MAU decline in the papers are across all blizzard games. Pretty sure the papers talked about growth for wow though. Could be wrong.

    Also, MAU isn't tainted at all, since they are open about what counts as a MAU. The reason why 1 player counts for multiple games is because that means multiple income from multiple games even if its just one player. In fact, making MAU only count per battle.net user and not per game would give inadequate information about the overall engagement and income /possible income that are important to investors.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2021-08-22 at 11:29 AM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    The China point is correct, so in reality the real sub numbers are quite a lot higher and it's not like Chinese aren't people or something. I'm sure that other game counts them as well in their chest thumping.
    China is however a a questionable factor, Blizzard themselves have admitted that Classic has been more popular in China than Retail.

    Unless TBC / SL changed that, a significant portion of chinese players rather play TBC than Retail.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    MAU decline in the papers are across all blizzard games. Pretty sure the papers talked about growth for wow though. Could be wrong.
    Shadowlands sold better than previous expansions I believe. However, MAU-wise it was launching right on top of the Classic WoW wave and might not have contributed significantly.

    That's the frustrating part. It's exceptionally difficult to separate the influence Classic has on everything.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    MAU decline in the papers are across all blizzard games. Pretty sure the papers talked about growth for wow though. Could be wrong.

    Also, MAU isn't tainted at all, since they are open about what counts as a MAU. The reason why 1 player counts for multiple games is because that means multiple income from multiple games even if its just one player. In fact, making MAU only count per battle.net user and not per game would give inadequate information about the overall engagement and income /possible income that are important to investors.
    Wasnt that the grow of ravenue? I dunno.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    MAU decline in the papers are across all blizzard games. Pretty sure the papers talked about growth for wow though. Could be wrong.
    The trick is how you deliver the news, there is a difference in saying WoW is doing great and Shadowlands is doing great.

    This is how you talk to shareholders, you dont says "the game sucks and subs are bleeding BUT SHOP is printing money so dont worry" you just say "wow is growing" people that put money in ATVI are not there to see if 9.1 dominion socket system is good, they dont even know what is they are here for profit.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Some of his data also includes being part of a covenant.
    Is choosing a covenant in SL now considered "optional"?

    Most peope just don't watch the video, see a Yotubuer / Streamer and basically go "fuck that shit", hence most replies are a weird mixture of pure copium and deflections.

    I'm not saying those numbers are accurate, but they certainly show a not so good trend, especially the "cyclical game has a cyclical playerbase" argument is damn stupid in the light of the fact that this data includes 9.1 release.

    Imagine how those numbers will look by the end of the year, because 9.2 will certainly not come out until early 22.
    His data presented does not match his source. theres more characters with covenants than he shows, and thats still only a measure of endgame.

    his graphs also show 9.1 and 8.3 performing similarly is amount of drop off for m+. beginning of expansion will always have strange numbers like whats shown. you have to take into consideration leveling and gearing time for that. later patches dont have the weird spikes.

    his raid data is also showing a full 7 month patch cycle compared to a patch that is not even 2 months old.

    im not saying that less people arent playing, im saying he is using his data to make incorrect assumptions because it makes better clickbait.
    Last edited by BossManRoth; 2021-08-22 at 11:36 AM.

    [Rothulivic] [Twitch] [Twitter] Signature by Serryn

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Has been apparently "obvious to anyone" since I joined here in 2008 (back then it was dying to casualisation, LFD and Aion) - and folks have been sure to remind us with many many threads and posts every x-pac.

    Ofc WoW is dying and so is everyone here.

    Do I have to drag out this gem again from SEVEN years ago? https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...2#post29402702

    To quote: "that graph has been independently confirmed by multiple mathematicians. WoW is going to be shut down some time during its next expac - and part of that reason is due to a mass exodus of people leaving for ESO and Wildstar, which far surpass WoW (this is undeniable)"
    But wow is dying :P In the sense that less and less players are playing each year and less and less MAU are there. It is not dead, but certainly dying. Looking at the news at blizzard and wow team i dont see them reviving him.

    At this point wow need a miracle.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Wasnt that the grow of ravenue? I dunno.
    And engagement I believe, which is a loose term that could mean a lot of things.

  20. #60
    Interesting how almost no one argued about the points in the video but jumped to ad hominem.

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