Did BFA ended all the hooks from Vanilla and Warcraft 3?

[Fuiking]

Farahlon aka Netherstorm before outlands exploded. I loved the idea of the eco-domes and the consortium form TBC and looked forward to seeing PAST netherstorm in WoD

/Sad trombone noises

'Other' side of Azeroth debate: Globes don't show Azeroth like that vs. Those same globes were wrong about Pandaria/Kul'tiras/Kezan, etc.

Inside of Azeroth. GoldenYak had a killer write up for a spider kingdom exploring azjol'nerub and the likes. Is deepholm is elemental plane (iirc), so I don't see why we can't see what's sprawling around in the deep. Could be useful for more old god shit, leftover deathwing tidbits, healing the sword wound in Silithus (is anyone gonna do something about that damn swords other than when we sacrificed legion weapons to 'stop' it?). Also maybe we go too deep and wake up Azeroth, she cracks her shell, and we're all sent screaming into the void of space..................................................................................... ...............to get sent back to the shadowlands.

Azjol'Nerub dungeon was supposed to be the first underground zone.. But Blizzard changed there plans for that zone.

[Adamas102]

I mean they literally wasted zones like the emerald dream, Argus, Nazjatar and Nyalotha for single patches, when each of them had the potential for a whole expansion...

I get it, though. Blizzard wants to hit all those well known locations before development for the game effectively comes to an end. Leaving all of those aside for their own expansions extends their plans for the game out almost a decade, and I doubt they would want to do that. It's not that WoW can't be profitable for a long time to come given its relatively massive number of diehard fans. I think it's going to be more a question of how much development talent you can attract to a game that's 20, 25, 30 years old. If I were in the business I'd much prefer to work on projects that utilized newer engines and were on the cutting edge of gaming rather than on a popular yet dated game. So once the old guard leaves (as they have been, whether for new projects or for... other reasons) and other talented/experienced designers and developers pass up on joining the WoW team and instead gravitate towards more contemporary projects, then who do you think is left to developing future expansions for WoW?

[Azerate]

I find it hard to believe that lore is so important to so many people that their decision to actively play WoW every day hinges on whether the new expansion is somehow connected to a strategy game from 20 years ago that most players of modern times probably don't even know it existed. As cute as the notion is, the game is an mmorpg and most people are in it for the gameplay and content, not the ridiculous story which is just an excuse for more content patches.

[melzas]

That would be a dream becoming true, they could even make this a two expansion deal, like Kalimdor in 10.0, then 11.0 Eastern Kingdoms, and 12.0 Dragons Isles.

Oh definetly. There is enough zones in EK and Kalimdor to last for a couple of expansions, especially if you weave in unexplored zones like Telal'abim or kezan that aren't enough for standalone expansion.

[Pheraz]

I wonder if we're gonna see the First Ones on 9.2 already.

No I don't think so. I am quiet sure that the sepulcher is named so because the first ones died and this is THEIR sepulcher But let's see. I hope we return to precious Azeroth It starts to feel like some sci fi mmo in space

[Accendor]

I get it, though. Blizzard wants to hit all those well known locations before development for the game effectively comes to an end. Leaving all of those aside for their own expansions extends their plans for the game out almost a decade, and I doubt they would want to do that. It's not that WoW can't be profitable for a long time to come given its relatively massive number of diehard fans. I think it's going to be more a question of how much development talent you can attract to a game that's 20, 25, 30 years old. If I were in the business I'd much prefer to work on projects that utilized newer engines and were on the cutting edge of gaming rather than on a popular yet dated game. So once the old guard leaves (as they have been, whether for new projects or for... other reasons) and other talented/experienced designers and developers pass up on joining the WoW team and instead gravitate towards more contemporary projects, then who do you think is left to developing future expansions for WoW?

"Hey, we have a save way to basically create tons of money for another 10 years to come while completely dominating a whole genre, let throw it all in the bin instead."

I don't want to sound to aggressive here, but your whole post not only does not make sense at all, it is also not how IT companies operate at all. And I can guarantee you, that you will always find fresh talent if you are Blizzard. Also if you believe they have never upgraded their developing tools since release, I don't know what to tell you. Obv. that is not true and while yes, the graphic engine might be outdated and there are certainly issues that need to improved (and maybe can not be improved without effectively creating WoW 2.0), it still does not make any sense to burn those zones and stories that way.
Worst case either go for WoW 2 (if you REALLY think the development of WoW 1 has no future and you plan to end it either way) or go for Warcraft 4.

[Kralljin]

I find it hard to believe that lore is so important to so many people that their decision to actively play WoW

I don't think that the day to day lore is very important but one shouldn't underestimate the value of an expansion being themtically connected to the Franchise.

After all, Blizzard was pretty much taken offguard by the mixed reception towards MoP and quite a common criticism towards the expansion was "lol pandas", whether that criticism was valid or not is hardly relevant, as long as a big enough audience feels that way, it affects how people feel towards a given expansion.
You could reiterate all day long that Pandaren and Pandaria was established in lore since Warcraft 3, most people just didn't care.

Let's not forget, MoP was followed up by WoD and that, disregarding the time travel nonsense (which Blizzard barely addressed and openly told people to ignore) was certainly very much feeling like Warcraft thematically.
Heck, the entire opening of the expansion was a Warcraft 2: Beyond the Dark Portal throwback

It's a superficial thing, most people aren't that deeply engaged with the game to care about Lore, but when an expansion too much deviates from what people perceive as Warcraft, it likely turns people off.
There's probably a reason why every Afterlives cinematic featured a known Warcraft character (altough in varying relevance).

And I can guarantee you, that you will always find fresh talent if you are Blizzard.

They wouldn't host events like "Life at Blizzard campus" at their inhouse events (Blizzcon) if they had no trouble attracting talent.
Add to this
1) Blizzards low pay
2) Loss of prestige over the past years (Blizzard hasn't released a critically acclaimed game since OW, unless you count Classic)
3) The recent allegations

I don't think it's very speculative to say that Blizzards decline in quality is linked to low pay, people with skills and rationale to not place something such as "working for Blizzard prestige" over a decent paycheck aren't going to take a job at Blizzard (especially when that "prestige" has evaporated into thin air over last 5-10 years), the people that you then end up hiring are people that may be huge fans of your franchise(s) but not necessarily the most skilled personnel.

Sure, they will alwas have *someone* applying for a position, but a *someone* is not equivalent to the cutting edge of the industry.

[Ragnarohk]

Lol, I always have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Tou8-Cz8is playing in my head when I see that name.

I thought it was a reference to the DK games.

[OokOok]

I was thinking about this another day, trying to figure out why Shadowlands was the first expansion announcement that I didn't have any excitement about since I started playing back in late TBC.

In the process, I noticed that every expansion we had before explored mostly everything the Warcraft franchise had to offer.

Vanilla = Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor

Burning Crusade = Outland and Quel'thalas

Wrath of the Lich King = Northrend

Cataclysm = The elemental planes and the remaining zones from Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms.

Mists of Pandaria = Pandaria - this is when I thought they were running out of ideas, surely Pandaren was a thing back in Warcraft 3, but I never expected to see a full expansion all about them.

Warlords of Draenor = Bad attempt on Warcraft 2 lore, but still something we were familiar with. And we were able to see Draenor before it was blown up.

Legion = Broken Isles, Argus, Emerald Nightmare/Dream

Battle for Azeroth = Kul Tiras, Naz'jatar, Zandalar, and Nya'lotha.

Then in Shadowlands, we got an expansion centered around a place that we barely heard about and were more akin to visiting the Emerald Dream than anything else.


So, with that in mind, what's left?




Are we going to explore more cosmic realms/planes that everything we know about them can be summarized in a single image or even a word?




This is why I think so many players want a World Revamp because there are no longer places that we wanna visit, we literally explored everything we've heard a lot about and were excited to explore. So, the only right move would be going back home, starting over.

Another day I made a post on the 10.0 speculation thread about leaks being scarce these days, but that's also because of what I said above. I mean, back in the day anyone could make a "fake leak" about a reasonable place like: 6.0 will be about Argus, or 5.0 will be about either the South Seas, Broken Isles, or Naz'jatar. We had so many places that we knew we would explore at some point, and also who would be a major character there, such as Kil'jaeden and Sargeras, Azshara, Rasthakhan, N'zoth, etc. Feels like the Warcraft franchise already used all its characters and places we could be hyped about, and I think that's also why so many people are not engaged with the lore anymore, it seems like nobody cares about the fate of the Jailer Zovaal, and I think that's because he literally came out of nowhere and is meant only to be used as a plot device so we could have someone to blame for Sylvanas actions and an excuse to visit the Shadowlands.

While I think we still have a single character that is meant to become a villain (Nozdormu), he technically lost his Aspect powers and shouldn't be able to become (Muronozond), and the place that could fit in his expansion (Dragon Isles), we also barely heard anything about. So, even this could feel empty for many people.


What do you guys think? Did I forget something? There's still any place that we should be excited to visit?

No wonder you have such a silly question, links a picture of a map that doesn't even have zandalar on it LOL NO WONDER he thinks there's no more place to visit

[EnvisCorr]

I think the issue I have with Blizzard is that they follow their process of releasing patches/expansions blindly that they've adopted over the years. They don't adapt and completely lack flexibility.

IMO they shouldn't be moving to the next expansion until they are done with all the content available for that theme/topic. That would probably lead to them making less money as it would expend period between expansions, but they could slightly change their business model e.g. more cosmetics in-store. I think as long as the content is good and players don't feel burned out - they would be fine with that.

[Lochton]

Well.

We've still not explored Tel'abim, nor have we found out where The Scarlet Crusade now is hiding, as they are still active, nor have we had any access to the subterranean areas, such as Undermine, the Nerubian's kingdom, nor the majority of Gnomeregan. And we're reaching a chapter in the story where a world revamp is needed again to update the changes to all zones and the likes.

[Swnem]

Going back to EK and Kalimdor seems like the best idea. I don't mean cataclysm 2.0, but completely redesigned zones from scratch, updating them to 10.0 standards, giving them endgame purpose. Put old EK and Kalimdor accessible in caverns of time though.

For instance 10.0 could deal in Tanaris, with Gadzetzan being the main hub (looking at Hearthstone mean streets expansion), with city being reimagined as a metropolis of Borealus size, with districts, gangs and all the big city vibes. From there we could explore new Ungoro dealing with some Titan facilities and dinosaurs, AhnQiraj remade as a remnant of dark empire zone, Silithius and aftermath of the wound. Caverns of time could be entire new zone with dungeons and raid...

These are just some loose ideas, but the point is we don't need completely new continent or planet, with EK and Kalimdor having so much potential.

Sure, the team that can hardly make 5 new zones is gonna remake all 20+ original zones from scratch.
And pink unicorns will fall from the sky too!

Are you willing to wait 4 years for that or what?

Cmon now... get real. Just revamping them some on Cataclysm was a huge mistake. They can't do that in a 2 year cycle.

Yes, we do need a new landmass. It just needs to not be cut up in seperate pieces.

[Soon-TM]

I'm still salty at Blizzard for wasting big names in the franchise such as Argus or Nazjatar as simple patch fodder. Those two places could have easily been expansion material on their own.

And freaking N'yalotha being just a raid (a cool one admittedly, but just that) was rubbing salt on the wound.

[deenman]

While I agree to some extent, I'm still trying to stay optimistic for 10.0.

this is literaly battered spouse syndrome

[Cosmic Janitor]

No I don't think so. I am quiet sure that the sepulcher is named so because the first ones died and this is THEIR sepulcher But let's see. I hope we return to precious Azeroth It starts to feel like some sci fi mmo in space

Would be interesting to see the creation myth of the franchise involving the true gods actually dying to spawn their respective pantheons.

[Hitei]

this is literaly battered spouse syndrome

"This video game is uninspired, but I hope the next version is good."
"That's literally the same as making excuses for being beaten by your spouse."
Absurd.

[Accendor]

Add to this
1) Blizzards low pay
2) Loss of prestige over the past years (Blizzard hasn't released a critically acclaimed game since OW, unless you count Classic)
3) The recent allegations

I don't think it's very speculative to say that Blizzards decline in quality is linked to low pay, people with skills and rationale to not place something such as "working for Blizzard prestige" over a decent paycheck aren't going to take a job at Blizzard (especially when that "prestige" has evaporated into thin air over last 5-10 years), the people that you then end up hiring are people that may be huge fans of your franchise(s) but not necessarily the most skilled personnel.

Sure, they will alwas have *someone* applying for a position, but a *someone* is not equivalent to the cutting edge of the industry.

I actually wanted to add "... if they hadn't treated their employees like shit over the last few years" (and woman for way longer) but then I forgot about it.
Actually RIGHT NOW, yes, I can see that it might be an issue, but for completely different reasons than the person I discussed with had claimed.

Also, and you will surely agree with me here, you can always just pay people more money and at least remove that factor from the problem list. Even is you hire a core team of 50 new people and pay them double the average industry salary, a project like WoW would still be immensely profitable. One store mount release basically pays all those people for more than a year. That is the amount of money we are talking about here.

Ignoring that, the wasting of potential expansions started 6 years ago (during legion), which actually was at the time when Blizzard peaked with 46MAUs and had recovered from WoD with the legion expansion. At that point in time, there was no reason to believe that it was "necessary to go into maintenance mode because we can not get new developers in the future at some point"

[StillMcfuu]

I think the concept of wow needs to have an old lore hook is pretty dangerous. While MOP had issues it is an example of a pretty successful new storyline. The issue is these one and done expansions aren't helping the overall story. Although that being said if they drag anything from SL into other expansions people are going to riot.

[Soon-TM]

if they drag anything from SL into other expansions people are going to riot.

Imagine being stuck with the janitor or (the Eternal Sun forbid it) Sylvanas for another expansion /shiver

Although I do think we will be stuck with the Golden Boi and his retinue for the foreseeable future.

[Maljinwo]

The whole cosmic thing focus is what keeps me from being engaged

Not to mention walking around the world of death only to find it's just another place where people walk, talk and work. And they take gold as a currency as well, cool