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  1. #601
    Would this new class skins require new employees to work on them? Could they be young women so the seniors can harass and abuse them? Then sure it goes with Blizzard ideals! Go ahead!

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Thing is, abomination is already an asset of the Death Knight, which can potentially be glyphed into its various forms.
    Abominations are not the only type of undead construct there is though. That's like saying Paladins already use various types of Holy Light, or Warlocks use an assortment of Fel magic abilities and minions. That's never gotten in the way of Priests or Demon Hunters having their own variations of abilities. Have you even noticed that Demon Hunters 'summon' demons with their Covenant ability, which they sacrifice? That's normally a Warlock thing. Guess exclusivity over a theme isn't as big a deal as we all thought.

    Besides, are we really questioning whether Necromancers could have their own variations of constructs? There's plenty more that we've seen like Bone Golems, Fleshbeasts (Rotface/Festergut), Flesh Titans, Fleshhounds, and more. Heck, Putricide himself is a great example of potential Necromancer gameplay, throwing alchemical ooze puddles and animated oozes on the ground and plenty of poison gas. Unholy DK in comparison is all about summoning minions and attacking with them, with plague spreading being a very minor aspect of the spec. Necromancer's Plague spec could be all about poisons and gasses while supplementing zone-based damage with minions that shepherd and gather minions into staying in the puddles.

    Oh, and by the way:

    A Forgewarden of the House of the Chosen sharpening a Runeblade

    "Some of these necromancers also seem to take on the path of the warrior, fighting with blades or riding atop massive beasts."
    That's actually pretty cool, since it shows that Necromancers have a much wider range than we ever knew them to have before.

    However I'd point out that I specifically called out House of Rituals, Constructs and Plague as the themes I'd choose for a Necromancer concept. Not sure why you're associating the House of the Chosen since that's more associated with Warrior characters like Draka and Mograine. I mean, I'm not surprised there are melee variations of Necromancers in the house of the Chosen, since that's where all the warrior types seem to be. Not what I consider an archetype for the Necromancer class concept, I'd say.

    Same with House of Eyes, which seems to be themed on spiders, spies and Rogues. I wouldn't associate that house with Necromancers either. Rituals, Plague and Constructs are what we normally associate with traditional Necromancer archetypes, though I must say the melee variants are interesting to point out.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-05 at 08:42 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Abominations are not the only type of undead construct there is though. That's like saying Paladins already use various types of Holy Light, or Warlocks use an assortment of Fel magic abilities and minions. That's never gotten in the way of Priests or Demon Hunters having their own variations of abilities. Have you even noticed that Demon Hunters 'summon' demons with their Covenant ability, which they sacrifice? That's normally a Warlock thing. Guess exclusivity over a theme isn't as big a deal as we all thought.
    A temporary ability for flavour.
    Notice how it isn't summoned from the twisting nether, but from the Theatre of Pain.
    It isn't so much sacrificing it, but killing it. I don't know why it explodes, since it doesn't summon a Pitlord.

    Besides, are we really questioning whether Necromancers could have their own variations of constructs? There's plenty more that we've seen like Bone Golems, Fleshbeasts (Rotface/Festergut), Flesh Titans, Fleshhounds, and more. Heck, Putricide himself is a great example of potential Necromancer gameplay, throwing alchemical ooze puddles and animated oozes on the ground and plenty of poison gas. Unholy DK in comparison is all about summoning minions and attacking with them, with plague spreading being a very minor aspect of the spec. Necromancer's Plague spec could be all about poisons and gasses while supplementing zone-based damage with minions that shepherd and gather minions into staying in the puddles.
    Fleshbeasts are already used by Death Knights, with Dark Transformation.
    Flesh Titans, i imagine, are too big for a summonable creature.
    Bone Golems are, indeed, unaccounted for.
    I don't know what a flesh hound is.

    As for Plagues, there's Festering Wound, Virulent Plague, Unholy Disease, Necrotic Wound and Epidemic.

    Poison is also administered by the Rogue's Poison Bomb, but i'll let it pass.

    That's actually pretty cool, since it shows that Necromancers have a much wider range than we ever knew them to have before.

    However I'd point out that I specifically called out House of Rituals, Constructs and Plague as the themes I'd choose for a Necromancer concept. Not sure why you're associating the House of the Chosen since that's more associated with Warrior characters like Draka and Mograine. I mean, I'm not surprised there are melee variations of Necromancers in the house of the Chosen, since that's where all the warrior types seem to be. Not what I consider an archetype for the Necromancer class concept, I'd say.

    Same with House of Eyes, which seems to be themed on spiders, spies and Rogues. I wouldn't associate that house with Necromancers either. Rituals, Plague and Constructs are what we normally associate with traditional Necromancer archetypes, though I must say the melee variants are interesting to point out.
    Now who's being biased
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Well, other weapons don't auto shoot.
    Well, if auto shoot is super important I guess it'll have to be wands, which while not used terribly often are still technically in the game. Alternately, the bow is what gets used for spellcasting anyway, so it should still see plenty of action even without it.

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Now who's being biased
    What's exactly biased here? I pointed at the specific houses that relate to Necromancers, while you chose to bring up the ones that are clearly themed with other archetypes in mind. I don't see how this is biased?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Well, if auto shoot is super important I guess it'll have to be wands, which while not used terribly often are still technically in the game. Alternately, the bow is what gets used for spellcasting anyway, so it should still see plenty of action even without it.
    That would be forcing people to equip Wands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    What's exactly biased here? I pointed at the specific houses that relate to Necromancers, while you chose to bring up the ones that are clearly themed with other archetypes in mind. I don't see how this is biased?
    I just showed you there are Necromancers in that House, and that some of them fight in melee with weapons.
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-09-05 at 08:10 PM.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    That would be forcing people to equip Wands.
    Yes. So what?

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Yes. So what?


    Damn... you're brutal.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    I just showed you there are Necromancers in that House, and that some of them fight in melee with weapons.
    Thanks for the heads up

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    That would be forcing people to equip Wands.
    Only if you want to RP with bow transmogs, otherwise nothing is really being forced. Caster classes can still use other weapons if you prefer it that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  10. #610
    Seen quite a few suggestions that Class skins could be "something more", but honestly? The moment there's balancing and performance put into the mix, it sours the entire feature.

    I'd rather see them have fun with class skins as pure cosmetics that players can choose as they please, and then add a proper class. Allied Races were a neat idea, but their racials soured the debate quite a bit and the usual bickering arose between Horde or Alliance getting better racials "furr damooge/tanking/healing"...

    No, just let skins be skins. Allied races were more complex than the playerbase ever asked for. Don't convolute Class skins.

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post


    Damn... you're brutal.
    Eh, I'd just allow people to transmog their staves and other weapons into bows which lets you play something that helps fulfill the character concept. I don't think that a lack of an auto shot really kills the concept since, well, using auto shot is going to crap all over your dps anyway.

    Having your majestic Night Elf riding into battle on her big pussycat mount, pulling off her bow and unleash moon magic shots on her enemies and some healing magic on her allies will give a great visual representation of the concept.

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by SensationalBanana View Post
    Seen quite a few suggestions that Class skins could be "something more", but honestly? The moment there's balancing and performance put into the mix, it sours the entire feature.

    I'd rather see them have fun with class skins as pure cosmetics that players can choose as they please, and then add a proper class. Allied Races were a neat idea, but their racials soured the debate quite a bit and the usual bickering arose between Horde or Alliance getting better racials "furr damooge/tanking/healing"...

    No, just let skins be skins. Allied races were more complex than the playerbase ever asked for. Don't convolute Class skins.
    It depends on how fine tuned balance we're talking about and how much divergence there is.

    Consider that Talents are generally weight-balanced between each other. Yes, there are always BIS picks, but as long as none of the egregious BIS talents are exclusive to either the Core or Class Skin, then options can be viable. Just slightly undertune em as viable and fun options for the sake of flavour, while min maxers stick with the class-neutral BIS options.

    Ideally it'd be balanced out on the level of Racials. No one really cares to pick the race just for the Racial stat boosts any more, and if they do then it's such a minor min-max boost that doesn't really impact 'balance' overall. People bickered over Allied Race racials when it came out, and people are barely talking about it at all now.

    I mean look at how effective the new Dark Ranger legendary weapons changes the theme of Explosive Shot into Wailing Arrow and adding Withering fire as a passive effect. These could easily be folded into optional talents that would be a huge step towards RP for those who want it, yet not be totally imbalanced as long as their stat-weight is appropriately managed along other talent options.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-06 at 01:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  13. #613
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    I would like to propose a different class skin for the paladin instead of the Spellbreaker mentioned in the OP: the Void Knight.

    Just color the paladin's ability graphic effects black and purple instead of white and gold, and the ability names, and you got yourself a void knight. And then void elves to be "paladins" (quotation marks are important).
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  14. #614
    Hello,
    The answer is pretty easy for most, and for some people, these video games are a big part of their lives. If you could spend three dollars to get an awesome skin(https://skins.co/) for your phone or a cool outfit, would you do it?
    Last edited by Deriils; 2021-09-14 at 10:31 AM.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I would like to propose a different class skin for the paladin instead of the Spellbreaker mentioned in the OP: the Void Knight.

    Just color the paladin's ability graphic effects black and purple instead of white and gold, and the ability names, and you got yourself a void knight. And then void elves to be "paladins" (quotation marks are important).
    Would also be a great way to get Forsaken 'paladins'.

  16. #616
    The problem with class skins is… they don’t make much sense. If every class gets one class skin, 9/10 people will play exactly that and in the end everybody will be the same again. If you have skins, you need a variety for each class and that’s just too much work overall.

    Look at Guild Wars 2 elite specs for example. Back in the first expansion when there was only one elite spec for each class, everybody played that. It was just not good. Now with the upcoming expansion there are three per class which gives a good variety. But it took them 6 years to get there.

    One class skin per class just doesn’t do anything.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    The problem with class skins is… they don’t make much sense. If every class gets one class skin, 9/10 people will play exactly that and in the end everybody will be the same again. If you have skins, you need a variety for each class and that’s just too much work overall.

    Look at Guild Wars 2 elite specs for example. Back in the first expansion when there was only one elite spec for each class, everybody played that. It was just not good. Now with the upcoming expansion there are three per class which gives a good variety. But it took them 6 years to get there.

    One class skin per class just doesn’t do anything.
    But... Why? People will play what they want to play. If they add say, a Necromancer Class Skin (Warlock), a tinker Class Skin (Druid) and a Spellbreaker Class Skin, people will play as one of those if they find the concept interesting. Otherwise, they will still be able to play as Warlocks, Druids and Paladins, which are popular concepts as well.

    The difference is that, unlike elite specs from GW2, there is no mechanical advantage or difference when it comes to playing a Class Skin.

    It's not about adding 'X number of skins per class'. It's about using the Class Skin system to allow people to fulfill a character archetype without needing to create brand new classes.

  18. #618
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    The problem with class skins is… they don’t make much sense. If every class gets one class skin, 9/10 people will play exactly that and in the end everybody will be the same again. If you have skins, you need a variety for each class and that’s just too much work overall.

    Look at Guild Wars 2 elite specs for example. Back in the first expansion when there was only one elite spec for each class, everybody played that. It was just not good. Now with the upcoming expansion there are three per class which gives a good variety. But it took them 6 years to get there.

    One class skin per class just doesn’t do anything.
    I disagree.

    A "void knight" class skin for the paladin would be a good way of "giving paladins" to the void elves, for example. It would be the exact same class, same mechanics, same rotation, etc... just different lore, and different graphics effects.

    It's a way of bringing in a fantasy without having to make a whole new class out of it. Don't downplay the power that cosmetics have in the game. Transmogrification is widely popular for a reason.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Would also be a great way to get Forsaken 'paladins'.
    Of course. Void elves for the Alliance, and forsaken for the Horde. Other races as well, but those two would be the notable ones for not being normally able to be actual paladins.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  19. #619
    Void Knights already exist in the lore too, they are known as riftblades:





    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Veiled_Riftblade

    Notice how they use mana, not rage or runes/runic power. They also use plate armor and 1h/shield or 2h weapons.

  20. #620
    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    Void Knights already exist in the lore too, they are known as riftblades:





    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Veiled_Riftblade

    Notice how they use mana, not rage or runes/runic power. They also use plate armor and 1h/shield or 2h weapons.
    LMAO if they say that "oh yeah the Riftblades are basically the Void Elf version of a Paladin" next expansion and we get a glyph for them.

    They ARE a weird case tbh; I got the impression they were meant to be warriors, but the fact they added mana bars to them does imply they also cast some sort of spell... and the only class archetype that does that are Paladins.

    IMO I do think they are mostly warriors, as per Riftblade Kelein using Warrior abilities with a bit of void/arcane flavor.

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