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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Wands are an instrument often used by mages or warlocks in fantasy.
    I mean, Priests did have Wand Spec as a thing back in the day.

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Wands are an instrument often used by mages or warlocks in fantasy.
    Same as Priests in WoW.

    What does this have to do with mounted combat?
    POTM representation.

    Well....
    *If you know what i mean* meme.
    Well, what's your take then?
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-15 at 08:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Why? We know the Void exists and people use it to do magic stuff. How hard is it to come to the conclusion that somebody could mix Void magic and martial prowess?
    I was thinking about it and i was going to say Paladins heal using the Light, which wouldn't work with the Void, but since Priests have Shadowmend and Shadowy Pact, i guess it's valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Because it really is that simple and easy. All a class is is a combination of mechanics + visuals/sfx. If you can use already established mechanics as a base, you can do wonders with custom visuals/sfx in order to convey the concept.
    No, because a Priest doesn't account for known abilities like Hunter's Mark and Sentinel (anti-stealth), Lunar Flare (AoE stun), Shadowstalk (party stealth), and i think even Starfall (targeted continuous AoE), melee glaives combat, glaive toss and acrobatics.

    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    I mean, Priests did have Wand Spec as a thing back in the day.
    Priests also had melee combat enhancing talents. Doesn't make them into ones (yet).

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Same as Priests in WoW.
    Mechanically, perhaps. Lore-wise, i'm not so sure.
    I mean, wands are the iconic Harry Potter tool. How many priesthoods have you seen using it?

    POTM representation.
    Oh.
    Anyways, i was not trying to argue with you about that. I've just just shown you it was already implemented before, so mechanically, it is possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Well Bows were also equippable by non-Hunters in the past, so we could apply that same to Priestess of the Moon class skin, or any class skin that uses a bow.
    As for your suggestion, it was Rogues and Warriors.

    Well, what's your take then?
    You didn't get the joke, did you? it's too rude...

    I don't know... she sheathed it under her dress?
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    I was thinking about it and i was going to say Paladins heal using the Light, which wouldn't work with the Void, but since Priests have Shadowmend and Shadowy Pact, i guess it's valid.
    If you don't like something as a concept, that's perfectly fine my dude. Feel free to say so. You don't have to try and 'disprove' it.

    No, because a Priest doesn't account for known abilities like Hunter's Mark and Sentinel (anti-stealth), Lunar Flare (AoE stun), Shadowstalk (party stealth), and i think even Starfall (targeted continuous AoE), melee glaives combat, glaive toss and acrobatics.
    The question becomes: Are these specific abilities required to make the concept work?

    My inclination is to say no. That a class concept/archetype is a theme, a package of things, rather than a small sampling of specific abilities. But let's take a look at the abilities that we should do our best to try and cover:

    Hide
    Scout
    Trueshot Aura
    Searing Arrows
    Starfall

    Hide is easy. Shadowmeld already accommodates that. Scout is hard. I can't think of anything in the PRiest toolkit that can cover it. There could be an owl animation added to Mind Vision I suppose... Trueshot Aura is repackaged into a DPS cooldown, so probably Power Infusion. Starfall is basically just an AoE, so there's a number of options to choose from tha could work.

    Priests also had melee combat enhancing talents. Doesn't make them into ones (yet).
    Er... Which melee combat talents did Priests have? I can't think of any.

    Regardless. the point was that Priests in WoW did have a super strong history of wand use. It was practically a requirement for them for years.

  5. #665
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    If you don't like something as a concept, that's perfectly fine my dude. Feel free to say so. You don't have to try and 'disprove' it.
    It's not that i don't like it. I needed a good lore reason for a made up class.

    The question becomes: Are these specific abilities required to make the concept work?

    My inclination is to say no. That a class concept/archetype is a theme, a package of things, rather than a small sampling of specific abilities. But let's take a look at the abilities that we should do our best to try and cover:

    Hide
    Scout
    Trueshot Aura
    Searing Arrows
    Starfall

    Hide is easy. Shadowmeld already accommodates that. Scout is hard. I can't think of anything in the PRiest toolkit that can cover it. There could be an owl animation added to Mind Vision I suppose... Trueshot Aura is repackaged into a DPS cooldown, so probably Power Infusion. Starfall is basically just an AoE, so there's a number of options to choose from tha could work.
    Hide is indeed Shadowmeld.
    Mind Vision isn't scout. It doesn't reveal any hidden targets.
    Trueshot Aura is a group buff. Power Infusion is a self-buff.
    Starfall is a targeted, long duration, AoE.

    See how you try to adjust the PotM to fit the Priest? that's the problem with class skins. "It doesn't really work, so we'll twist the concept to fit what we want it to be".

    Er... Which melee combat talents did Priests have? I can't think of any.

    Regardless. the point was that Priests in WoW did have a super strong history of wand use. It was practically a requirement for them for years.
    Inner Fire used to increase Attack Power and Armor.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Mechanically, perhaps. Lore-wise, i'm not so sure.
    I mean, wands are the iconic Harry Potter tool. How many priesthoods have you seen using it?
    What exactly is your point, because you seem to be arguing against weapons that are already in the game, and I see no reason to debate Blizzards decisions to have added them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by TBCCLOL View Post
    To be honest, the Class Skin concept is good only if it is an extra on the shop with some in the game surely.
    Seriously why? This is by far the worst idea and i cant think of a better way to butcher the class skin idea.
    Please read this blizzard: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...m_source=share also what could have been possible with Nightborne--> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLr5dDXn5nE

  8. #668
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Hide is indeed Shadowmeld.
    Mind Vision isn't scout. It doesn't reveal any hidden targets.
    Trueshot Aura is a group buff. Power Infusion is a self-buff.
    Starfall is a targeted, long duration, AoE.

    See how you try to adjust the PotM to fit the Priest? that's the problem with class skins. "It doesn't really work, so we'll twist the concept to fit what we want it to be".
    Except I don't think you need to have those specific abilities. They don't matter. They're just a mechanic coming from an old game. I'm perfectly happy taking the theme of what the character archetype is, and running with it to allow for players to have the option of playing it. This is done mostly with visuals. I don't believe that not having a perfect representation of Scout, for example, doesn't do anything to actually damage the overall presentation. It just doesn't matter. Because if you break down what a PotM is, she's a concept of a fierce Night Elf woman that uses lunar magic mixed with a bow. It's not Starfall or Trueshot Aura that make the concept work, it's conveying the same image and aesthetic.

    Inner Fire used to increase Attack Power and Armor.
    Oh, sorry I thought we were talking about talents, not abilities.

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    What exactly is your point, because you seem to be arguing against weapons that are already in the game, and I see no reason to debate Blizzards decisions to have added them.
    Wands, aesthetically, fitting a Priest.

    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    It's not Starfall or Trueshot Aura that make the concept work, it's conveying the same image and aesthetic.
    Which, you can't do using Priest gameplay. It only covers the healing aspect at best.

    Oh, sorry I thought we were talking about talents, not abilities.
    I probably mixed those up.
    Nonetheless, an aspect that is, currently, irrelevant to the Priest. Like wands.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Wands, aesthetically, fitting a Priest.
    If you're talking about aesthetics in game art or other depictions, I mean there's a lack of Crossbows featured in Hunter promotional art and WC3 Heros. I don't think that's a means to discredit Crossbows as not 'aesthetically fitting' a Hunter. Same with Rogues using Axes or Demon Hunters using Swords.

    Cosmetics are optional, transmogs are an option. I think Blizzard has done well in that regard, and they can do more such as opening up to more lore-specific Race/Class/Weapon combinations.

    I'd love to see the day NE Priests can wield bows, Tauren Warriors wielding Totems and Troll Hunters wielding Glaives and Throwing weapons.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-16 at 05:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  11. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Which, you can't do using Priest gameplay. It only covers the healing aspect at best.
    And the bow. And the magic attacks, including Starfall. Does missing Trueshot Aura really kill the entire concept? Really?

    I probably mixed those up.
    Nonetheless, an aspect that is, currently, irrelevant to the Priest. Like wands.
    I mean, we're hitting off topic of off topic at this point... The original point being that the concept involved transmogging Wands to Bows in order to accomodate the fantasy if having an autoshot was really and truly needed.

  12. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    If you're talking about aesthetics in game art or other depictions, I mean there's a lack of Crossbows featured in Hunter promotional art and WC3 Heros. I don't think that's a means to discredit Crossbows as not 'aesthetically fitting' a Hunter. Same with Rogues using Axes or Demon Hunters using Swords.
    Well, WC1 archers used crossbows.
    Rogues could throw axes like Axethrowers.
    Demon Hunters using swords is odd.

    Cosmetics are optional, transmogs are an option. I think Blizzard has done well in that regard, and they can do more such as opening up to more lore-specific Race/Class/Weapon combinations.
    Would love to see multiple weapons equipped, like in true RPGs.

    I'd love to see the day NE Priests can wield bows, Tauren Warriors wielding Totems and Troll Hunters wielding Glaives and Throwing weapons.
    Night elf Priests wielding bows would be better off as part of the Night Warrior.
    Totems cannot be used as weapons yet. Perhaps due to their large size. But, i wouldn't oppose it.
    Troll Hunters do not wield glaives. Shadow Hunters do. Headhunters wield spears. They just need to let us be able to throw them as an auto-attack (and add a spear bag on the back of the character).

    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    And the bow. And the magic attacks, including Starfall. Does missing Trueshot Aura really kill the entire concept? Really?
    No, it doesn't. How is Starfall accounted for, for example?

    I mean, we're hitting off topic of off topic at this point... The original point being that the concept involved transmogging Wands to Bows in order to accomodate the fantasy if having an autoshot was really and truly needed.
    Oh, and by the way, do wands fire at the same speed as bows? Would a Priest need to stack haste?
    all wands do magical damage, while bows do physical damage. Would you need to 'skin' it as well? because i believe that affects gameplay.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    No, it doesn't. How is Starfall accounted for, for example?
    Pick any Priest AoE ability and reskin it.


    Oh, and by the way, do wands fire at the same speed as bows? Would a Priest need to stack haste?
    all wands do magical damage, while bows do physical damage. Would you need to 'skin' it as well? because i believe that affects gameplay.
    Why does the wand need to fire at the same speed as a bow?

    Why does it need to be physical damage?

  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Oh, and by the way, do wands fire at the same speed as bows? Would a Priest need to stack haste?
    all wands do magical damage, while bows do physical damage. Would you need to 'skin' it as well? because i believe that affects gameplay.
    They might not even have to fire physical arrows if you consider Searing Arrow was a Magical ability in WC3. A Priest class that deals magical auto attack damage would simply be playing on that lore representation or a POTM using magical arrows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  15. #675
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Pick any Priest AoE ability and reskin it.
    That's not how that works. There are different types of AoE.

    Why does the wand need to fire at the same speed as a bow?
    Because you're trying to mimic a bow.

    Why does it need to be physical damage?
    Because arrows do physical damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    They might not even have to fire physical arrows if you consider Searing Arrow was a Magical ability in WC3. A Priest class that deals magical auto attack damage would simply be playing on that lore representation or a POTM using magical arrows.
    Searing Arrows was not translated into the more recent reincarnation of Tyrande in HotS, so i don't know how relevant it still is.

    But, basically, yes. Unless it uses a magical buff like [spell school] arrows, then it is physical.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  16. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by AKCephalopod View Post
    Class Skins would add many new classes and be a major draw for a new expansion
    It really doesn't though... a reskinned Warlock into a Necromancer theme would still play the same. It's customization without any differences. The point of new classes is to play something fresh... to get excited about pressing different buttons... not the cosmetic looks of the class. If class skins is all they do in the future then the game is dead. You glyphed your spells to look different... nothing new. People want... people deserve... people need something new to get excited about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    That's not how that works. There are different types of AoE.
    Sure it is. We're just translating an ability from one game type to another. Much like many other abilities, it can change when translating from an ability from an RTS to an MMO. We can just reskin an ability to match the visual of the concept.

    Because you're trying to mimic a bow.
    But bows already have a variable attack speed. It's not like having a 2.0 attack speed is going to wreck the fantasy.

    Because arrows do physical damage.
    And when fired by a moon magic class that does incredible things through her bow it does magic damage. Fits the fantasy.

  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Searing Arrows was not translated into the more recent reincarnation of Tyrande in HotS, so i don't know how relevant it still is.

    But, basically, yes. Unless it uses a magical buff like [spell school] arrows, then it is physical.
    Which would work fine for a Bow transmog of a Wand that adapts that same spell school as magic arrows.

    Fire based Wand damage? Fire based magic arrows.


    I mean, we're till talking about cosmetics right? So it's not like a Bow transmog suddenly changes Wand damage to Physical just because 'it doesn't use a magical buff'.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    It really doesn't though... a reskinned Warlock into a Necromancer theme would still play the same. It's customization without any differences. The point of new classes is to play something fresh... to get excited about pressing different buttons... not the cosmetic looks of the class. If class skins is all they do in the future then the game is dead. You glyphed your spells to look different... nothing new. People want... people deserve... people need something new to get excited about.
    Class skins isn't a replacement for new classes, it's a system of supplementing class concepts that otherwise have close-to-zero chance of ever having their own class made for them. The alternative is not having these classes at all.

    There's only a handful of likely options for a new class, and it kind of all boils down to 'Tinker' being the only real logical choice left. Everything else is pretty much covered, and wouldn't be interesting enough for Blizzard to devote resources to creating 3 new specs for a Necromancer or a Priestess of the Moon when we already have Warlocks, DKs, Druids and Hunters already playable. Class skins is just a way to capitalize that and provide Class Fantasy options, for classes that have little chance of being made.

    It's a parallel of Allied Races providing options for Races that would otherwise not be fully featured as 'New Race of the Expansion', like Mag'har, Dark Iron or Void Elves. And it's a simple enough system where they could throw a bunch of em at us at a time rather than pouring all their resources to just making *ONE* option.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-16 at 10:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Sure it is. We're just translating an ability from one game type to another. Much like many other abilities, it can change when translating from an ability from an RTS to an MMO. We can just reskin an ability to match the visual of the concept.
    Then, name a Priest ability that works like Starfall.

    But bows already have a variable attack speed. It's not like having a 2.0 attack speed is going to wreck the fantasy.
    Bow are usually faster than Wands. Not to mention that Wands don't fire off spells like Bows fire off abilities.

    And when fired by a moon magic class that does incredible things through her bow it does magic damage. Fits the fantasy.
    Depends. The arrow that Tyrande shot at Nathanos wasn't magical, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Which would work fine for a Bow transmog of a Wand that adapts that same spell school as magic arrows.

    Fire based Wand damage? Fire based magic arrows.


    I mean, we're till talking about cosmetics right? So it's not like a Bow transmog suddenly changes Wand damage to Physical just because 'it doesn't use a magical buff'.
    Oh, so the Priestess of the Moon does all kinds of magic now?

    Class skins isn't a replacement for new classes, it's a system of supplementing class concepts that otherwise have close-to-zero chance of ever having their own class made for them. The alternative is not having these classes at all.
    It definitely is, when you're suggesting something like a Druid to a host a you-know-what class.

    There's only a handful of likely options for a new class, and it kind of all boils down to 'Tinker' being the only real logical choice left.
    Bullshit. Can you play as a fully dedicated Shadow Hunter/Witch Doctor right now?
    Can you play as a Blademaster?
    How about a Warden?
    Dark Rangers are barely even represented.
    Not to mention the Night Warrior.

    Everything else is pretty much covered, and wouldn't be interesting enough for Blizzard to devote resources to creating 3 new specs for a Necromancer or a Priestess of the Moon when we already have Warlocks, DKs, Druids and Hunters already playable. Class skins is just a way to capitalize that and provide Class Fantasy options, for classes that have little chance of being made.
    That's where you're wrong, buddy.
    If you believe the only viable class is a tech one, and that Blizzard would not add any more after that, then you're falling to the same logic as Teriz.

    It's a parallel of Allied Races providing options for Races that would otherwise not be fully featured as 'New Race of the Expansion', like Mag'har, Dark Iron or Void Elves. And it's a simple enough system where they could throw a bunch of em at us at a time rather than pouring all their resources to just making *ONE* option.
    Which were subraces, mostly.
    Like how class skins should be subclasses.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Oh, so the Priestess of the Moon does all kinds of magic now?
    They can use weapons that do all kinds of magic, so yes?

    It definitely is, when you're suggesting something like a Druid to a host a you-know-what class.
    Its a discussion of what is possible, not what should happen. Aren't you the one who is usually optimistic about possibilities regardless of realism?

    Bullshit. Can you play as a fully dedicated Shadow Hunter/Witch Doctor right now?
    Can you play as a Blademaster?
    How about a Warden?
    Dark Rangers are barely even represented.
    Not to mention the Night Warrior.
    And none of them are likely ever going to see daylight as an individual new class if the Necromancer and Dark Ranger and Tinker all have been passed up and haven't been made yet

    Look at the polls. Have any of the classes you mentioned ever been even listed or made the list? Why would Blizzard consider making these classes when there is so little demand for them?

    If you want to convince me otherwise, try making s poll and see if you can get any biters. Prove me wrong.

    That's where you're wrong, buddy.
    If you believe the only viable class is a tech one, and that Blizzard would not add any more after that, then you're falling to the same logic as Teriz.

    Demon Hunters have shit for gameplay and thematic viability. Know why there were picked over every other class possibility? Because they're popular and they're in demand. Know what is the next one following hot on the heels of Demon Hunters? Its not the Blademaster or Shadow Hunter or Priestess of the Moon or Warden or Witchdoctor.

    The one that has a chance is Dark Ranger, since Sylvanas redemption is on the table, though chances are she will become new Arbiter so we don't know where that leads the rest of the Dark Rangers lore. Then there are others you haven't mentioned.

    Watch any youtuber talk about potential new classes. How many times will you hear Priestess of the Moon or Shsdowhunters brought up as speculated new classes? Rarely if ever. These aren't classes on anyone's radar.

    Listen to the ones being talked about and theorized consistently. Those are the ones to keep an eye out for, not the niche ones we want to champion as being a new class.

    Which were subraces, mostly.
    Like how class skins should be subclasses.
    So when you say subrace, are you talking about Sandfury Trolls or Zandalari Trolls?
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-17 at 08:04 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

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