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  1. #61
    Class skins by themselves would be great.

    Warrior - Barbarian
    Rogue - ninja
    Hunter - bard
    Paladin - crusader
    Druid - warden
    Priest - bishop
    Warlock - necromancer
    Demon hunter - dreadlord
    Monk - grand master
    Mage - grand magus
    Shaman - elemental lord
    Death knight - rune knight

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Incorrect. Tinker has the same pedigree as Death Knights, Monks, and Demon Hunters.

    Your other examples do not.
    As do all the other class activists say.. got anything conclusive? or just the same drivel that everyone else spouts to say their class is the only one that can be next?

    I mean, Tinker people:

    WoD Will have tinker! it only makes sense. Nah trust us bro, it'll come in a patch
    BFA will have tinker! it only makes sense. Nah trust us bro, it'll come in a patch
    SL will have tinker! it only makes sense. Nah trust us bro, next expansion!
    <repeat until infinity>

  3. #63
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    So, basically the OP thinks that everyone will be excited if your spell spews out blue flame instead of orange flame...

    Stop giving Blizz ideas on how to be even more lazy than they already are. This game doesn't need even more reskins. This game is already *way* overfocused on Dress Up Paladin.

    The game doesn't need 15k mounts, 100k pets, 200k xmogs, and 100 class / race reskins to return to its glory. The game doesn't need 30 difficulty sliders and speed run timers. The game doesn't need meaningless temporary powers for each expansion.

    The game needs content...both in amount and in variety. The game needs to feel like there is progression in story and abilities. Your character who experienced massive battles and new adventures and teachings along the way should feel like they have more to offer...not offer the same thing they did a decade ago but has a magic ring/weapon/shoulder that lets them do something mildly different for a couple of years.

    Can you imagine how boring of a movie it would be if the main character had 3 moves and never did anything different throughout the entire movie? Never growing as a character? Never learning new moves or anything at all? Just given a special weapon that saves the day at the end of the first movie...then the second movie is the exact same thing all over again but the special weapon that saves the day is a slightly different colored version of the same weapon? And so on for the third movie and fourth movie.

    Sure, you'd have idiots who claim that movie series was the best ever, but the vast majority wouldn't even enjoy the first movie, much less the series. That is how WoW has become. Adding more colors to the special weapon isn't the answer.

  4. #64
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    As do all the other class activists say.. got anything conclusive? or just the same drivel that everyone else spouts to say their class is the only one that can be next?
    I never said it's the only one that can be next. I'm saying it's the only one that has the same background as the previous expansion class inclusions (WC3 hero(s), WC3 lore character, HotS equivalent, continent connected to the lore character and class, exclusive abilities, etc). It's also the only WC3 hero (outside of the Goblin Alchemist which also has Tinker-style abilities) whose abilities have never appeared in the class lineup.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    based on what exactly?
    i mean i wouldnt mind tinker being added, but saying they are "front runner" is just wishful thinking
    Based on its history, it's theme, its exclusive abilities, and it's appearances in WoW. There's a reason that the Tinker tends to win every future class poll handidly.

    Just for visuals; The previous expansion classes:





    The remaining WC3 heroes without abilities in the class lineup:


  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I never said it's the only one that can be next. I'm saying it's the only one that has the same background as the previous expansion class inclusions (WC3 hero(s), WC3 lore character, HotS equivalent, continent connected to the lore character and class, exclusive abilities, etc). It's also the only WC3 hero (outside of the Goblin Alchemist which also has Tinker-style abilities) whose abilities have never appeared in the class lineup.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Based on its history, it's theme, its exclusive abilities, and it's appearances in WoW. There's a reason that the Tinker tends to win every future class poll handidly.

    Just for visuals; The previous expansion classes:





    The remaining WC3 heroes without abilities in the class lineup:

    Funny how you ignored:


    Tinker people:

    WoD Will have tinker! it only makes sense. Nah trust us bro, it'll come in a patch
    BFA will have tinker! it only makes sense. Nah trust us bro, it'll come in a patch
    SL will have tinker! it only makes sense. Nah trust us bro, next expansion!
    <repeat until infinity>

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Sure. All a class really is is a combination of art + animation + mechanics. Class skins lets you piggyback the mechanics and just replace the art and animation. There's no reason that you couldn't replace the art and animation of a Druid with Tinker themed ones and easily have a class that fills the Tinker theme and identity. It's a simple way of adding a new 'class' without all of the headaches that go into balancing it.
    Heck I'd go a step further, this could be used to open up classes to other races. Like these guy arguing about druid as a tinker.

    Mechagnomes don't make sense as druids. But if there's a tinker class skin for druids? So long as mechagnome druids can only use the tinker class skin, it suddenly works out fine in theory.

    Personally I am of the opinion that we need race/spec skins first, race flavors being reflected in the class abilities. Void/Undead priests not using holy light, etc. But your comment got me thinking, it opens a lot of lore-friendly possibilities to relax race/class restrictions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    The problem with wow is not that it doesn't have enough classes but that its badly designed and focusing on borrowed power and game systems that if badly designed plague the entire expansion. Adding even more complexity with different specs classes etc will only derail the game further into imbalance.

    As for the tinkers/bards crap, careful what you wish for because both sound boring and uninteresting regardless of the class fantasy from other games where they probably fit. Modern wow needs modern solutions not digging the past and bringing back mummies.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Exactly this. Players asking for meaningful content and blizzard responds by adding tattooed skins on draenei. They don't even pretend to care anymore thats the truth.

    How about fixing their game after 9.1 with the fps up and down in revendreth and the collapsing game with OSD. That would be a great start to show they give a fuck.
    You probably don't know, but developers usually are super-specialized. Artists are the ones doing extra character customization because they probably have less workload now until they start to work on the next big patch (9.2) while the designers and the technical developers work on the playing bits.
    So critizise they release new skins instead of "fixing the game" (whatever is this, because you have a different answer depending who you ask) is like asking a painter to fix a bridge.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Paperfox View Post
    I came across this concept was a Bellular video quite a while ago, I don't recall if he was the one who came up with it or if he was reacting to something he read.
    Nope, while I can't find the original post (may also have been in their podcast) the term was first coined by Matt Rossi of Blizzard Watch, who laid out the general system, which was then later picked up as a video by Taliesin.
    Of course, the basic idea likely had floated around people's heads earlier than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The Tnker doesn’t work as a Druid class skin. The Tinker has unique abilities that simply can’t be replicated within the Druid class.
    Would work if Balance got more temporary pets than just the Treants, those would then be turrets/robots in the Tinker Skin.
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Deferionus View Post
    I would rather them make a necromancer than waste the potential on it being a reskinned warlock. I already play a warlock. I want to play a necromancer.
    You already have the Death Knight. Warlocks would be prefect for a necromancer class skin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itori View Post
    Class skins by themselves would be great.

    Warrior - Barbarian
    Rogue - ninja
    Hunter - bard
    Paladin - crusader
    Druid - warden
    Priest - bishop
    Warlock - necromancer
    Demon hunter - dreadlord
    Monk - grand master
    Mage - grand magus
    Shaman - elemental lord
    Death knight - rune knight
    Barbarian is already the fury Warrior.
    Ninja is already the Subtelty Rogue.
    Bards have nothing to do with Hunters.
    Retribution Paladins are already Crusaders.
    Druids and Wardens are two different things.
    Bishop is a Human Priest title.
    Dreadlord is a demonic race, not a Demon Hunter.
    The other ones are just titles you came up with.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    So, basically the OP thinks that everyone will be excited if your spell spews out blue flame instead of orange flame...

    Stop giving Blizz ideas on how to be even more lazy than they already are. This game doesn't need even more reskins. This game is already *way* overfocused on Dress Up Paladin.

    The game doesn't need 15k mounts, 100k pets, 200k xmogs, and 100 class / race reskins to return to its glory. The game doesn't need 30 difficulty sliders and speed run timers. The game doesn't need meaningless temporary powers for each expansion.

    The game needs content...both in amount and in variety. The game needs to feel like there is progression in story and abilities. Your character who experienced massive battles and new adventures and teachings along the way should feel like they have more to offer...not offer the same thing they did a decade ago but has a magic ring/weapon/shoulder that lets them do something mildly different for a couple of years.
    Preach.
    These guys just want laziness written all over their game.

    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    Heck I'd go a step further, this could be used to open up classes to other races. Like these guy arguing about druid as a tinker.

    Mechagnomes don't make sense as druids. But if there's a tinker class skin for druids? So long as mechagnome druids can only use the tinker class skin, it suddenly works out fine in theory.

    Personally I am of the opinion that we need race/spec skins first, race flavors being reflected in the class abilities. Void/Undead priests not using holy light, etc. But your comment got me thinking, it opens a lot of lore-friendly possibilities to relax race/class restrictions.
    How about no Mechagnome Druids?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacotaco View Post
    So critizise they release new skins instead of "fixing the game" (whatever is this, because you have a different answer depending who you ask) is like asking a painter to fix a bridge.
    The problem is the management asking for more mount colors rather than actual new content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    Would work if Balance got more temporary pets than just the Treants, those would then be turrets/robots in the Tinker Skin.
    It is much more than just that.
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-08-25 at 02:57 PM.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  10. #70
    I think WoW is headed into a very bad position, no matter what the next expansion is if they want to bring people back they need wither a new class with like 4 specs and a bunch of simplified systems more like the older versions of WoW, or 4th specs and the ability to cross faction group which actually looks more likely since Anduin will not be returning to Stormwind as King but rather to the Undercity as King which will likely open up some kind of cross faction interplay.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

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  11. #71
    class skins are not a bad idea, but some classes deserve to be more than just a skin ... for example, the warden..the necromancer could well be a rework for the unholy death knight or even a 4th spec for DK. ..gladiator, it should be a new spec for warrior, with option to choose type of weapon, including sword / shield, the demon hunter should have option dps ranged with bow / staff + magic...

    class skins it is a very poor concept that would not do justice ..a gkadiatir is a warrior...but a warden is not a rogue...or a dark ranger is not a mm hunter...

    so, i cant acept clas skins.they are billonaire.they can design very nice hero classes if want.

  12. #72
    Dreadlord Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah, but the fundamental problem here is that a Tinker is not a Druid. The two are fundamentally different, and the only reason people think this idea would work is because of a possible link in the shapeshifting mechanic and the Tinker's ability to pilot a mech.

    On the other hand, a Dark Ranger IS a Hunter, since a Hunter is another word for Ranger. Additionally, Hunters have had multiple Dark Ranger abilities throughout their history in WoW.



    You really didn't answer my question though; Is this a Tinker or a Druid? If this is a class skin for the Druid class, then every Druid race should be able to utilize it. However if that's the case, then it really isn't a Tinker, it's just a Druid with a mechanical theme, which really makes no sense. In addition, how deep into the ability alterations do we go? Are we going to change every Druid ability into something that works for a Tinker, or are we going to retain the Druid's abilities and just alter the forms? What about the names? Bristling Fur or Ferocious Bite doesn't really work if we're talking about mechs.

    The point is this; If we're talking about altering the forms, names, animations, and the actual mechanics of the Druid class, then you're going quite a bit beyond simply a skin and you're actually creating a new class.



    The smaller fantasy divergences is more likely. When you start altering the entire class, you're doing a lot more work, and again once you reach that point you should simply create a stand alone class.



    And that's my point; In order to make the Tinker into a workable class skin, you'd have to fundamentally alter the Druid class. Which simply doesn't seem feasible if the goal is to AVOID the work required to make a class. The point of class skins is to offer players the chance to play different variations of EXISTING class. Like Dark Rangers and Hunters or Dark Shaman and Shaman, or Necromancers and Warlocks.



    The issue with that is once again the abilities. The Claw Pack's abilities from both WC3 and HotS are entirely ranged. Feral is mainly melee. In addition, the Tinker enters mech mode from the claw pack, not the caster. Druids can change into Bear or Cat from caster, again there is no in-between form. So we're talking about a different mechanic here.



    Both, since the hero is a corrupted fire mage. It's rather obvious that some abilities would go to mages (Flame Strike, Phoenix) and others would go to Warlocks (Banish, Drain Mana).



    Which is why Spellsteal went to Mages.



    But they have plenty to do with the Shadow magic and Curses found in Affliction and the life manipulating abilities found in both Affliction and Demonology.



    Actually the Tinker is far more unique since no class shares it's themes or abilities. Hence why it simply doesn't work as a class skin.
    You really don't want to get it, do you? The whole goal of class skins would be to not have to balance 10+ more classes. On paper they would work exactly the same as their parent classes, but they would have new animations, spell names, spec names aswell as customizations and prolly a mount because it fits the allied races formula. And no way Blizzard will balance niche stuff like Night Warriors or Spellbreakers as their own classes lol - we either will get that stuff as class skins, or we will never get them.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    This is an overgeneralization of the Druid and the Tinker.
    It really isn't. All a Tinker is is a series of tech themed abilities and attacks. That's it.

    Why would Tinkers stealth?
    Why wouldn't they? Technology is fun and can do fun things.

    Why would they need both melee and ranged DPS specs?
    Why wouldn't they? They can both go 'pew pew pew' and 'smack, cut, buzzsaw'.

    You haven't, exactly, thought this through, because all you can imagine are a few abilities that match your vision in a general way.
    Does the Druid account for:
    Reduce, Reuse, Recycle resource bar
    Rock it! Turret
    Deth Lazor
    Xplodium Charge
    Grav-O-Bomb 3000
    Focus Turrets
    Electroshock Strikes
    Buster Cannon
    Heavy Thrusters
    Gigavolt Charge
    Wormhole Generator
    Deploy Spark Bot
    World Enlarger
    Exploding Sheep
    Hyperdrive
    Healing Spray
    Chemical Rage
    Acid Bomb
    Transmute
    ?
    Why on earth do I need any of those specific abilities? I have every ability from WC3 covered, and then extrapolate other abilities that are thematically appropriate. Lasers, bombs, saws, guns... All Tinker themed. Is a Tinker a class with a set of super specific abilities and nothing else, or is it a class that is based on using technology to solve problems?

    It's more than just a simple "oh, look guys! Druids can take on forms! and so do Tinkers! that means they are both the same!"
    It really isn't any more complicated than that though. It really isn't. If you don't like the concept, cool, that's fine. If it's 'Tinker class or nothing', again, fine. But that doesn't mean that a class skin doesn't work for Tinkers. It just means it isn't your cup of tea.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    Heck I'd go a step further, this could be used to open up classes to other races. Like these guy arguing about druid as a tinker.

    Mechagnomes don't make sense as druids. But if there's a tinker class skin for druids? So long as mechagnome druids can only use the tinker class skin, it suddenly works out fine in theory.

    Personally I am of the opinion that we need race/spec skins first, race flavors being reflected in the class abilities. Void/Undead priests not using holy light, etc. But your comment got me thinking, it opens a lot of lore-friendly possibilities to relax race/class restrictions.
    Sure, why not?

    My take is that creating a new class requires so much time and effort largely because of mechanics. Not to say that art and animation don't take effort, rather, it's the mechanics that keep us limited to a single class every few expansions because balance is such a beast in this game. Class skins let's us kind of skip the mechanics part, and allow new or expanded class concepts to be playable without the worry of balance. So instead of getting a new class every few expansions, we can actually have no playable options at a rate of several within a single expansion.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    So, basically the OP thinks that everyone will be excited if your spell spews out blue flame instead of orange flame...
    If it comes down to whether we should have the customization or just not have it because forumers like you don't think it's particularly exciting, I'd rather have the extra customization options.

    I mean should we not have Night Warrior Black-Eyes options just because you think it's not very exciting or lazy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  15. #75
    Warrior -> Tinker
    Paladin -> Tinker
    Priest -> Tinker
    Warlock -> Tinker
    Demon Hunter -> Tinker Hunter
    Hunter -> Tinker
    Druid -> Tinker
    Rogue -> Sneaker Tinker
    Mage -> Tinker
    Monk -> Monk

    Based on what I see on the forums, this is what the future of WoW is and I for one am delighted.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    How about no Mechagnome Druids?
    He means Mechagnome Class with Druid gameplay. So he's still talking about a Mechagnome Tinker, and not what you're thinking of as an actual 'Mechagnome Druid' that happens to use mechs.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-08-25 at 04:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  17. #77
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    Funny how you ignored:


    Tinker people:

    WoD Will have tinker! it only makes sense. Nah trust us bro, it'll come in a patch
    BFA will have tinker! it only makes sense. Nah trust us bro, it'll come in a patch
    SL will have tinker! it only makes sense. Nah trust us bro, next expansion!
    <repeat until infinity>
    People saying that the Tinker coming in X expansion is irrelevant, and doesn't change the argument.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    You really don't want to get it, do you? The whole goal of class skins would be to not have to balance 10+ more classes. On paper they would work exactly the same as their parent classes, but they would have new animations, spell names, spec names aswell as customizations and prolly a mount because it fits the allied races formula. And no way Blizzard will balance niche stuff like Night Warriors or Spellbreakers as their own classes lol - we either will get that stuff as class skins, or we will never get them.
    Yeah, Night Warriors and Spellbreakers were never going to be classes to begin with. They're too closely tied to their respective races, and they're not much different than existing classes. So yeah, those definitely work as class skins.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    They're too closely tied to their respective races, and they're not much different than existing classes. So yeah, those definitely work as class skins.
    Same could be said for Demon Hunters. It was often suggested as a Night Elf Rogue "prestige class" way back in the pre-TBC days.

  19. #79
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    Same could be said for Demon Hunters. It was often suggested as a Night Elf Rogue "prestige class" way back in the pre-TBC days.
    Not really. Rogues don't use demonic magic in any capacity, so there was no way they could ever become Demon Hunters.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Based on its history, it's theme, its exclusive abilities, and it's appearances in WoW. There's a reason that the Tinker tends to win every future class poll handidly.
    those are all very nice reasons why to add it to game, however they in no way suggest its front runner...
    its an option, a viable and interesting option definitely, however not in any way more likely than lets say a necromancer

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