Class Skins would add many new classes and be a major draw for a new expansion

[cocomen2]

Class SKINS

If we’re changing a straight line magic bolt into a parabola Bomb, how are we not changing how an ability works?

At this point you plain trolling, since WHOLE point of Class Skins is cosmetic effect to apply new theme and effects WITHOUT changing how skills of said character worked beforehand, without skin and with it mechanic part and numbers stay the same.

[Teriz]

That's the whole point of class skins. Or do you honestly you think a necromancer-skin for warlocks would be summoning wild imps or succubi?

In some games Imps and Succubi are considered undead.

Mechs have a melee attack with the blades attached to their arms.

Not Gnomish mechs.

You would think that NPCs (especially VIP NPCs) are lower level than the players?

You can replace Mekkatorque's mech with any Gnome or Goblin mech. The argument is still the same. You can't apply bear and cat animations and abilities to mech.

I'll repeat what I said at the beginning of this post: "That's the whole point of class skins. Or do you honestly you think a necromancer-skin for warlocks would be summoning wild imps or succubi?"

See above.

You mean like before Legion, people would just say to make Demon Hunters a class skin for warlocks, which would leave night elves out?

I never argued that. I said allow Night Elves to be Warlocks and give Warlocks a melee spec. With Metamorphosis they were extremely close to the Demon Hunter theme.

Kul'Tiran druids throw your argument into the trash can. They're not primitive, and it's a simple case of making the midgets' "druid" forms just be mechanical forms, anyways.

Actually Kul'Tiran are primitive. They're a sect who embrace the wilds and the ancient magic of Kul Tiras. They're very much like real life Wiccans.

You mean just like basically every vehicle in this game is a reskin of the "vehicle" mechanic, most of the time with minor mechanical tweaks?

Except in the case of the mech it's not really a vehicle, it's a character with vehicle characteristics. Just like the Druid form isn't really a beast, it's a character with beast characteristics and abilities.

At this point you plain trolling, since WHOLE point of Class Skins is cosmetic effect to apply new theme and effects WITHOUT changing how skills of said character worked beforehand, without skin and with it mechanic part and numbers stay the same.

Which is exactly why Tinker doesn't work as a class skin of the Druid class, because you would have to alter the mechanics of multiple Druid abilities and add multiple races to the Druid class in order for it to work properly.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Nothing about class skins prevents Blizzard from just making it another class entry in the character creation screen that has it's own available races. The idea here is simply to reduce the mechanical design and balance work load after a few visual assets have been made once. Just switching an existing warlock to necromancer makes little to no sense either, even if they have some overlap in the shadow spells category. This is not an evolved/higher tier/muilticlass/prestrige class system. The point is simply to give people customization options and allow them access to classes that they would like to play but that would otherwise never make it into the game because Blizzard has already reached the breaking point (as pathetic as that may be) in their class design efforts with the existing classes.

[Prozach]

lol, all of these comments about "mechs". Go play Go play Mechwarrior or Battletech or something. Either way, there are already these things called "engineers" in WoW that do most of what people are suggesting. Hey, I have an idea for a class! It's called a "stitcher" and you make specialized cloth for your class and fighting handkerchiefs. No, wait...how about "liquider"--they make all of these exploding potion things and construct mini viscous blobs to fight by their side!

[Teriz]

lol, all of these comments about "mechs". Go play Go play Mechwarrior or Battletech or something. Either way, there are already these things called "engineers" in WoW that do most of what people are suggesting. Hey, I have an idea for a class! It's called a "stitcher" and you make specialized cloth for your class and fighting handkerchiefs. No, wait...how about "liquider"--they make all of these exploding potion things and construct mini viscous blobs to fight by their side!

None of the Tinker's abilities exist in the engineering profession. Also Engineering isn't a class, so it doesn't really fulfill the fantasy of the Tinker hero.

[Prozach]

None of the Tinker's abilities exist in the engineering profession. Also Engineering isn't a class, so it doesn't really fulfill the fantasy of the Tinker hero.

But what about the Stitcher? I'm sure I can come up with a dozen abilities that all have to do with deadly threads and textiles.

This just seems like a semantics argument. And when fans try to submit ideas like this, with over-tuned abilities and "creative" ideas that are already in the game, it never sounds good. Even if WoW did create this silly "class", it wouldn't be anything like what people are suggesting in this thread, I guarantee it. And then everyone would be pissed. Better off just creating the Stitcher...

[Teriz]

But what about the Stitcher? I'm sure I can come up with a dozen abilities that all have to do with deadly threads and textiles.

This just seems like a semantics argument. And when fans try to submit ideas like this, with over-tuned abilities and "creative" ideas that are already in the game, it never sounds good. Even if WoW did create this silly "class", it wouldn't be anything like what people are suggesting in this thread, I guarantee it. And then everyone would be pissed. Better off just creating the Stitcher...

The Stitcher wasn't a WC3 hero with unique abilities created by Blizzard. The Tinker was. Further the Stitcher doesn't have the same pedigree as the previous three WoW expansion classes while the Tinker does.

[Prozach]

The Stitcher wasn't a WC3 hero with unique abilities created by Blizzard. The Tinker was. Further the Stitcher doesn't have the same pedigree as the previous three WoW expansion classes while the Tinker does.

The Stitchers have been working behind the scenes for decades. Who do you think creates the patterns for all of the cloth in the game? The cloth dungeon and raid loot. The flying carpet designs. And the countless carpets and tapestries found throughout the game. Think of it as an "Old God" of a class, always there whispering in the shadows and eavesdropping behind the drapes. Have you ever seen a cotton plant in the game? No. The Stitchers control the entire industry and all the wealth and sacred knowledge that come with it.

[Teriz]

The Stitchers have been working behind the scenes for decades. Who do you think creates the patterns for all of the cloth in the game? The cloth dungeon and raid loot. The flying carpet designs. And the countless carpets and tapestries found throughout the game. Think of it as an "Old God" of a class, always there whispering in the shadows and eavesdropping behind the drapes. Have you ever seen a cotton plant in the game? No. The Stitchers control the entire industry and all the wealth and sacred knowledge that come with it.

Again, you don't seem to understand the fact that the Tinker is not a fan-made concept. It is a concept from Blizzard, just like Death Knights, Monks, and Demon Hunters.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

If we’re changing a straight line magic bolt into a parabola Bomb, how are we not changing how an ability works?.

*sigh* You don't. Seriously, what's not clicking.

As I said, a class skin works fine if you’re simply altering the cosmetics of an existing class. It does not work if you’re attempting to create something that is thematically and mechanically the opposite of said existing class thus requiring an overhaul of multiple art assets and mechanics. If you’re going that route, you’re pretty much making a new class.

FFS NO, That's not the "route we are going". Seriously what part of you can't change any mechanics you aren't getting? for the Nth Time, yes, you can believe that a Class Skin just doesn't do justice to the Tinker concept, but it's like you are not understanding the concept of a Class Skin on the first place, thus this conversation feels pointless.

[Prozach]

Again, you don't seem to understand the fact that the Tinker is not a fan-made concept. It is a concept from Blizzard, just like Death Knights, Monks, and Demon Hunters.

I just checked again--no tinkers in the game. Just engineers. Everything from the dumb "mech" stuff to individual abilities and other silly crap is all on these forums. You guys are acting like because the word "tinker" was used in a 20 year old game it should be prevalent throughout all of WoW.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Which is exactly why Tinker doesn't work as a class skin of the Druid class, because you would have to alter the mechanics of multiple Druid abilities and add multiple races to the Druid class in order for it to work properly.

This is exactly you not understanding what the idea of a Class Skin even is on the first place. You DON'T alter any abilities, you simply RESKIN them to give them a different aesthetic/fantasy/concept.

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I just checked again--no tinkers in the game. Just engineers. Everything from the dumb "mech" stuff to individual abilities and other silly crap is all on these forums. You guys are acting like because the word "tinker" was used in a 20 year old game it should be prevalent throughout all of WoW.

The core problem is that he is presenting the Tinker "gameplay" from other games as necessary for any Tinker concept to work in WoW, which just doesn't make sense given how WoW has literally changed how Specs and classes play within the same game.

It's like saying "No, Melee Survival can't be Hunter spec because Hunters are a ranged class" when we have literally seen WoW change how the whole gameplay of the spec changed in front of our eyes.

[Teriz]

*sigh* You don't. Seriously, what's not clicking.

Uh, you would. A parabola would have different targeting and a bomb should do should do some form of splash damage.

FFS NO, That's not the "route we are going". Seriously what part of you can't change any mechanics you aren't getting? for the Nth Time, yes, you can believe that a Class Skin just doesn't do justice to the Tinker concept, but it's like you are not understanding the concept of a Class Skin on the first place, thus this conversation feels pointless.

First off, there is no official concept of a class skin. This is just an idea that a youtuber came up with. Secondly, the basis of that concept is to take future class concepts that are very close to existing concepts (like Dark Ranger and Hunter) and give players new options. If you notice in the original concept's video, the Tinker was never mentioned. Why? Because the Tinker is fundamentally different than any existing class and wouldn't work in the class skin concept.

[Revamp Man]

if i take a duck and dress it up in 4 different ways it doesnt mean i have 5 ducks
i still only have 1

[Teriz]

I just checked again--no tinkers in the game. Just engineers. Everything from the dumb "mech" stuff to individual abilities and other silly crap is all on these forums. You guys are acting like because the word "tinker" was used in a 20 year old game it should be prevalent throughout all of WoW.

Uh, the previous 3 WoW expansion classes all came from that 20 year old game. The last one, the Demon Hunter dropped only 5 years ago.

[Ielenia]

In some games Imps and Succubi are considered undead.

"Some games" are not WoW. Tell me: how are imps and succubi classified in WoW?

Not Gnomish mechs.

And? They still have upper limbs. If they don't have blades, they can punch. What's the problem? That's what your beloved Mekkatorque's mech does in most of his fight.

You can replace Mekkatorque's mech with any Gnome or Goblin mech. The argument is still the same. You can't apply bear and cat animations and abilities to mech.

Duh. That's kind of a given. Just like animations and spell effects for warlocks would be changed if they get a necromancer class skin. Your point being?

I never argued that. I said allow Night Elves to be Warlocks and give Warlocks a melee spec. With Metamorphosis they were extremely close to the Demon Hunter theme.

I'll repeat what I said before:

And what's the problem of giving "druidism" to those races? Plenty of players asking for the removal of race/class combo restrictions, for one.

Actually Kul'Tiran are primitive. They're a sect who embrace the wilds and the ancient magic of Kul Tiras. They're very much like real life Wiccans.

Except... they're not primitive. At all. Have you set foot in Boralus at all? They're nowhere near the levels of trolls, tauren and nightelves. Not to mention it's a Kul'Tiran that teaches us how to work with advanced technology. And also: the worgen were certainly not "primitive", either.

Except in the case of the mech it's not really a vehicle,

... I never said it is. I used it as an example. Please work on your reading comprehension.

Which is exactly why Tinker doesn't work as a class skin of the Druid class, because you would have to alter the mechanics of multiple Druid abilities and add multiple races to the Druid class in order for it to work properly.

THAT IS THE WHOLE REASON BEHIND CLASS SKINS.

[Teriz]

This is exactly you not understanding what the idea of a Class Skin even is on the first place. You DON'T alter any abilities, you simply RESKIN them to give them a different aesthetic/fantasy/concept.

And as I've said multiple times, reskinning abilities won't work. You would have to add new mechanics. For example, there is no Druid equivalent for Pocket Factory or the Turrets from HotS.

The core problem is that he is presenting the Tinker "gameplay" from other games as necessary for any Tinker concept to work in WoW, which just doesn't make sense given how WoW has literally changed how Specs and classes play within the same game.

Uh, Demon Hunters, Death Knights, and Monks got their gameplay and core abilities from that exact same source. Why wouldn't the Tinker?

[Prozach]

Uh, the previous 3 WoW expansion classes all came from that 20 year old game. The last one, the Demon Hunter dropped only 5 years ago.

That's because a) all of those other classes are actually cool, and b) engineers (tinkers) already exist in game as a profession. Mystery solved.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Uh, you would. A parabola would have different targeting and a bomb should do should do some form of splash damage.

JFC, is like talking to that Patrick Star meme.

Peace. I'm out.

(And for the record, lol no, a youtuber didn't "come up" with the idea of Class skins. It has been an idea that has been going around for years, so one random youtuber's own personal proposal is exactly that, not a comprehensive vision of what Class Skins could and should be FFS.

Like, it should be VERY EVIDENT that people on this very thread support a more exhaustive Class Skin concept)

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Uh, Demon Hunters, Death Knights, and Monks got their gameplay and core abilities from that exact same source. Why wouldn't the Tinker?

Way to miss the point. I'm literally saying that gameplay is not prescriptive not even within the same game.

On the other hand, this whole debate has been solely about you missing the point.

[Teriz]

"Some games" are not WoW. Tell me: how are imps and succubi classified in WoW?

Demons of course. However what's the problem? Are you saying we simply can't reskin the demons into Undead minions?

And? They still have upper limbs. If they don't have blades, they can punch. What's the problem? That's what your beloved Mekkatorque's mech does in most of his fight.

Duh. That's kind of a given. Just like animations and spell effects for warlocks would be changed if they get a necromancer class skin. Your point being?

Actually the Warlock's abilities in Affliction and Demonology wouldn't need to be changed much. The vast majority of abilities in the Warlock class are Necromancer transplants. Drain Life, Life Tap, Soulstone, Healthstone, Haunt, Health Funnel, Soul Leach, Curses, etc. wouldn't be out of place in a Necromancer class.

Except... they're not primitive. At all. Have you set foot in Boralus at all? They're nowhere near the levels of trolls, tauren and nightelves. Not to mention it's a Kul'Tiran that teaches us how to work with advanced technology. And also: the worgen were certainly not "primitive", either.

Except you don't encounter the Kul'tiran Druids in Borealus, you encounter them in Drustvar.

THAT IS THE WHOLE REASON BEHIND CLASS SKINS.

Yeah, no its not. The reason behind Class Skins is to simply add cosmetic changes, not do something dramatic like adding new races and new mechanics to a class. When you add new mechanics you have to begin adjusting for balance. When it comes to changing a Druid into a Tinker you would have to alter multiple mechanics which in turn would cause multiple balancing issues to be addressed. When a new patch or expansion comes out and abilities are added and removed from the Druid class, those mechanics have to be adjusted again. I'll say again, it simply doesn't work when you have a concept so fundamentally different than the host class.

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That's because a) all of those other classes are actually cool,

Which is an opinion, and thus irrelelvant.

and b) engineers (tinkers) already exist in game as a profession. Mystery solved.

Which would be false since none of the Tinker's attributes or abilities exist in the engineering profession.

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Like, it should be VERY EVIDENT that people on this very thread support a more exhaustive Class Skin concept)

And they (like you) have no idea what they're talking about.

Way to miss the point. I'm literally saying that gameplay is not prescriptive not even within the same game.

On the other hand, this whole debate has been solely about you missing the point.

And I'm literally saying that WC3 abilities were translated directly into the expansion classes, so there's no reason why the Tinker's WC3 (and HotS) abilities wouldn't also be translated into WoW.