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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    Yes, getting two bows from the endboss as only loot without a single hunter in the group in 10 player dragon soul really was perfect. I cannot imagine how you could improve such a perfect system.
    Getting actual loot that you found on the body of the boss, with each one being unique and then distributed to the people who took part in the kill, is both simpler, more immersive and more interesting than today's systems-over-systems-over-systems bullshit compounded with being disconnected from everything, like bubbles in their own set of rules.

  2. #102
    what most ppl dont get is that a smart cash grab system like the wow token is EXACTLY the same as lootboxes, maybe just a bit more clever executed.

    lets compare them:

    lootboxes:
    - you pay x amount of money
    - you get a box item
    - you open the box item and have a random chance of x to get something you need

    wow token:
    - you pay x amount of money (for the wow token)
    - you pay a boost grp with the gold from wow token
    - the boost grp kills a boss for you
    - you loot the boss and have a random chance of x to get something you need

    its exactly the same procedure with almost exactly the same chances. its just a bit more hidden, so stupid little jimmy not directly realizes it. thats why its called a SMART cash grab system.

    simple as that.


    edit, small addition:

    if you wanna increase the cash flow, now all you have to do, is to change your game design to support that smart cash grab system. in example by setting rating breakpoints of lets say pvp gear upgrades or m+ VP upgrades as a small hurdle. or just drop weapons at the higher, more dificult bosses. after a while you will see many players quickly, just for ONCE, use a boost grp, to quickly get the rating, so they could keep going farm gear, upgrading and playing the game. result1: you got 7 bugs for free, from many customers. result2: you see a lot of WTS entries in PUG tool and chat.

    to my shame: i exactly know how this works, is analyzed and calculated, because as sw dev i did the same in the past. its modern industry game design to produce flexible monetizing and stretch quarter figures.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2021-08-25 at 01:26 PM.

  3. #103
    Warchief Progenitor Aquarius's Avatar
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    This post is so chaotic that I don’t even know what to say to this. I think you want more loot for less effort, but I don’t think this works like that in game.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    Loot in mmo is pretty much retarded. It's made that way for addiction and compensate easy boring content. But it seems that's what a few players want for some weird reason. So that's enought to continue making it that way.
    Current WoW is like an ARPG with forced multiplayer. It wouldn't be that bad if loot was actually abundant, as is the custom in the genre. But they decided to go with stingy drop rates, in order to have the hamster coming back the next week and roll the dice wheel again.

    Honestly, FUCK THIS.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  5. #105
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    and what about rng in rng...for example - Sylvanas dagger is 1/5 in raid and then 1/4 from loot pool....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    This post is so chaotic that I don’t even know what to say to this. I think you want more loot for less effort, but I don’t think this works like that in game.
    what you do not understand...is it ok for you to kill 25 bosses which drops dageer and not even see 1 drop and you need 2...what about rng in rng...and do not tell me to do m+ or whatever...I have 239 and 236 daggers, but 25 kills and 0 daggers is really stupid and annoying loot system...at least would be nice they bring back bonus loot rool...

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    I'm not subbed so I can't go take a screen shot of me looking up "Carry" in the LFD tool, I know it's tough to do but you could try it and see for yourself.

    And yes, I did. You can give gold to people to carry you through a raids and potentially get a BoP weapon. If whatever the current raid is follows Nathria rules where tokens drop from the last boss then you are basically 100% guaranteed a weapon if you are willing to pay for a funneling run.

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    Open the LFD tool, search Carry.
    how is buying a carry from other players paying to win when you cant even get what you want? lmao

    Buying a run isn't buying a weapon. I want to buy a weapon. Until you can buy pieces directly from the company and not engage in trade with people, game can't be p2w.

    Trade is a part of the economy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    Don't argue with him, he just doesn't understand that buying carries (middleman) is essentially the same as buying it off a shop from Blizzard store directly. He also probably thinks WoW is doing great and nobody is leaving and it's not Blizz fault and the game is obviously not p2w because you can only buy gold and not gear even though gold enables you to buy mythic runs with the best loot in the game.

    But obviously we are wrong and he is right since you actually can't buy it directly from Blizz store, yup! We dummies he smarty.
    how is engaging in trade in a video game with a robust trade system p2w? its part of the fucking game you idiot.
    was buying a lionheart helm in classic paying to win, too?


    you salty susans keep shifting the goalpost and have no idea what p2w is.

    You. Cannot. Buy. Any. Competitive. Advantage.

    Buying a service from other players in a game with an actual economy isn't p2w by any measure.
    Last edited by Kehego; 2021-08-25 at 03:53 PM.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    how is buying a carry from other players paying to win when you cant even get what you want? lmao

    Buying a run isn't buying a weapon. I want to buy a weapon. Until you can buy pieces directly from the company and not engage in trade with people, game can't be p2w.

    Trade is a part of the economy.

    - - - Updated - - -



    how is engaging in trade in a video game with a robust trade system p2w? its part of the fucking game you idiot.
    was buying a lionheart helm in classic paying to win, too?


    you salty susans keep shifting the goalpost and have no idea what p2w is.

    You. Cannot. Buy. Any. Competitive. Advantage.

    Buying a service from other players in a game with an actual economy isn't p2w by any measure.
    I have already agreed with you, we stupid, you clever, I chose to play Horde for this very reason. Are you trying to get a penalty on the forum by calling us names? I mean you could ask and I can report you if you want. Very robust trading indeed, use $ from real life in exchange for gold, that is the pinnacle of game economy and perfect trading. Buying gold with cash and then getting carried through the hardest content in the game is clearly not an advantage and you can also easily farm millions of gold by just logging in daily so there is no need to ever buy any gold. A new player with 1000$ can not get into a mythic raid instantly if he wanted. We are indeed wrong, thanks for clarifying it while remaining civil.
    Last edited by Qnubi; 2021-08-25 at 04:05 PM.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    I have already agreed with you, we stupid, you clever. Are you trying to get a penalty on the forum by calling us names? I mean you could ask and I can report you if you want. We have no idea about p2w, buying gold with cash and then getting carried through the hardest content in the game is clearly not an advantage and you can also easily farm millions of gold by just logging in. A new player with 1000$ can not get into a mythic raid instantly if he wanted. We are indeed wrong, thanks for clarifying it but remain civil.
    You are being a passive-aggressive cunt, and wanna talk about "being civil?" lmfao
    Anyway @Splenda isn't threatening against the TOS?

    Blizzard offers no competitive advantage. Blizzard doesn't sell gear. You cannot pay blizzard to win because even if you buy gold, you *still* cannot pay blizzard for a competitive advantage.

    There is no loot store, no loot boxes, no p2w.

  9. #109
    They should scrap the vault and do a proper pity system for raiders and a good loot structure for mythic+ and pvpers.

    I killed 20+ mythic bosses, even if they are the same 3-4 every week what's the deal about getting loot you want after a certain amount of kills?

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    You are being a passive-aggressive cunt, and wanna talk about "being civil?" lmfao
    Anyway @Splenda isn't threatening against the TOS?

    Blizzard offers no competitive advantage. Blizzard doesn't sell gear. You cannot pay blizzard to win because even if you buy gold, you *still* cannot pay blizzard for a competitive advantage.

    There is no loot store, no loot boxes, no p2w.
    Asking for help from a moderator while continuing to insult everyone disagreeing with you, doesn't get any better than this. So Blizzard does not offer the token in exchange for money which you then sell for gold? And gold does not allow you to literally buy anything you could want? Damn, the things you learn every day. I suppose the legendary you have to buy off the AH for gold does not count, and that's not even the biggest offender.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    RNG is RNG. I feel for you, I get frustrated at times when there is a specific drop that just never drops. But that's how this works - it would make raiding completely pointless if you got everything you wanted on your first kill of everything.
    These types of responses frustrate me. To be honest, I don't know that I have a better answer, but your response is completely strawmanning the OP. Obviously raiding would be pointless if you got everything you wanted on the first kill. But the OP never said, "I want Blizzard to give me everything I want on the first kill". He said he is frustrated that he has 25 kills and it still hasn't dropped.

    While I share his frustration on not getting a weapon in 25 kills, I share your concern about guaranteeing 1-2 drops. The system relies on RNG. I suppose there are alternative systems where you farm currency from raids to purchase what you want, similar to how PVP works, but that would require a complete overhaul of the loot system and I don't know how many folks would be in favor of that. Part of the fun of the boss kill is that chance at the reward.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    These types of responses frustrate me. To be honest, I don't know that I have a better answer, but your response is completely strawmanning the OP. Obviously raiding would be pointless if you got everything you wanted on the first kill. But the OP never said, "I want Blizzard to give me everything I want on the first kill". He said he is frustrated that he has 25 kills and it still hasn't dropped.

    While I share his frustration on not getting a weapon in 25 kills, I share your concern about guaranteeing 1-2 drops. The system relies on RNG. I suppose there are alternative systems where you farm currency from raids to purchase what you want, similar to how PVP works, but that would require a complete overhaul of the loot system and I don't know how many folks would be in favor of that. Part of the fun of the boss kill is that chance at the reward.
    Blizzard is somehow scared of guaranteed drops. If someone killed a boss 25 times in my eyes he 100% deserves whatever he wants from a boss, that's 12ish weeks (if he did HC and Normal), 3 months. Just put that into perspective. People should not need 3 months to get 1 weapon, EVER. There needs to be a fail-safe that always protects the players from these negative experiences. Why doesn't Blizzard want that too? Do they believe someone that stays for 3 months will stay another 3? Don't they think at some point that player will just leave forever?
    Last edited by Qnubi; 2021-08-25 at 04:28 PM.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    No system is perfect, of course, and even today people get plenty of things they don't need. I am not sure there is ever a way to make it perfect without devaluing loot and raiding completely. If you give away only what someone could use as an upgrade, you remove choice and make it impossible to try again.
    Whether that would be "devaluing loot and raiding" is certainly in the eye of the beholder. If you find high value in the cyclic progress offered by loot, lfr ->Normal raids -> heroic raids -> mythic raids, and the same value in being stuck at a plateau because you are unlucky, then sure, that would devalue the process.

    If you, like me, think that it has become unbearable to put in the hundreds of hours of boring shit to get to the fun part, which is mythic raiding with the most complex mechanics and higher performance requirements, then it would certainly add value.

    Progress is good, but it would be much more meaningful progress if they stopped gating us on time and luck instead of just spending a few extra hours making more complex fights instead of just requiring higher number output. Enrage timers could easily be removed to allow different approaches. And sure, progress through gear is a staple of mmorpgs, but that doesn't mean that everything should be locked behind and overcome with gear. it's totally fine to have some things that just are too difficult for some players. It should also be fine that you don't do a raid several times every week for 6 months if you would have been satisfied with 2 months.
    Last edited by Tronski; 2021-08-25 at 04:32 PM.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by BraveNewWorld View Post
    You have the option to get 900 conquest in 1-2 hours and buy a 220 baseline weapon that you can easily upgrade to 233/240ish if you're any good.

    you do not PVP if you think this is true lol

    25 conquest a win for 2s which are the shortest games, if you need a baseline weapon odds are you aren't winning 100% of your games even by being carried

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by cronight View Post
    ok...lets see... 7nm and 7hc ner zhul kills...0 daggers drop...7nm and 4hc sylvanas kills...0 daggers drop...so overall 25 kills, 0 daggers drop, and ofc I am class who dual wield, so I need 2 drops...so comon blizz at least bring back bonus loot rolls since I dont give a fck about gv....
    itsn that what you people wanted though ?

    back in bfa you could just spam instances in hope of TF

    now have fun waiting forever on loot that never drop - and if it drops its garbage itlv

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    itsn that what you people wanted though ?

    back in bfa you could just spam instances in hope of TF

    now have fun waiting forever on loot that never drop - and if it drops its garbage itlv
    They wanted BFA loot pinatas but none of the titanforging..

    IE get 4 fully geared characters in a month

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    what most ppl dont get is that a smart cash grab system like the wow token is EXACTLY the same as lootboxes, maybe just a bit more clever executed.

    lets compare them:

    lootboxes:
    - you pay x amount of money
    - you get a box item
    - you open the box item and have a random chance of x to get something you need

    wow token:
    - you pay x amount of money (for the wow token)
    - you pay a boost grp with the gold from wow token
    - the boost grp kills a boss for you
    - you loot the boss and have a random chance of x to get something you need

    its exactly the same procedure with almost exactly the same chances. its just a bit more hidden, so stupid little jimmy not directly realizes it. thats why its called a SMART cash grab system.

    simple as that.


    edit, small addition:

    if you wanna increase the cash flow, now all you have to do, is to change your game design to support that smart cash grab system. in example by setting rating breakpoints of lets say pvp gear upgrades or m+ VP upgrades as a small hurdle. or just drop weapons at the higher, more dificult bosses. after a while you will see many players quickly, just for ONCE, use a boost grp, to quickly get the rating, so they could keep going farm gear, upgrading and playing the game. result1: you got 7 bugs for free, from many customers. result2: you see a lot of WTS entries in PUG tool and chat.

    to my shame: i exactly know how this works, is analyzed and calculated, because as sw dev i did the same in the past. its modern industry game design to produce flexible monetizing and stretch quarter figures.
    Pretty much. This is what happens when a game company sells you gold/currency. Buying gold becomes encouraged.
    It's pretty much P2W in a sub game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    itsn that what you people wanted though ?

    back in bfa you could just spam instances in hope of TF

    now have fun waiting forever on loot that never drop - and if it drops its garbage itlv
    I didn't see a single person ever saying they wanted less loot to drop.
    People wanted less complex loot and that was a good change. Killing the drop chance was something Blizz did by themselves.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzix View Post
    Go turn trade chat on and you'll have an endless stream of boosting posts you can screenshot for yourself.
    Want a 236? Just buy some M+ 15 boosts
    246? Go buy a KSM package first
    252? Mythic raid funnel
    259? Nothing is off limits! Though you'll have to shell out some big cash for this one, you probably get a mount too!

    But maybe the more important takeaway from my post: you can go spam some M+ without paying for it. You can just play the game. You could ask some rogue buddies to blast keys with you for a second chance at drops.
    You could PvP?
    Or you could complain that raid-logging doesn't get you everything your heart desires.
    None of this solves OPs bad luck. All I can say is that this has happened to me once way back in 6.0. The weapon didn't drop for the whole patch for anyone and that sucked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  19. #119
    8 months in a row without Dragonstalker shoulders from Chromaggus. Cry me a river..

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I didn't see a single person ever saying they wanted less loot to drop.
    People wanted less complex loot and that was a good change. Killing the drop chance was something Blizz did by themselves.
    Well then people have to use brains before they ask for something. It was pretty obvious that Titanforging is the very thing that allowed more loot, because getting BiS was still time consuming and random, which kept people engaged. Seemed rather self-explanatory since the very beginning that no TF = less loot, 'cause you still need to pay your monthly fee - and if you achieve your goals too fast, you stop playing.
    So here are the results. Next time think about possible consequences befor you ask for something, because it's damn sure that Blizzard won't shower you with BiS so you can cancel your sub faster.

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