let loot will be loot...o really

[Grof]

Well your comment has nothing to do with the quote you put in the title. The quote you used is referencing the fact that you shouldn't have to sim as much as in the past.

Next if you are struggling that much on weapons you can always grab the Korthia weapons and upgrade those. Just doing the dailies / assaults on each of my toons they have about 2-3 weapons a piece and then you can upgrade it to about the same ilvl as normal and slightly higher.



I mean the person you quoted is right. You haven't really tried hard. You could easily have had 2 Korthia weapons fully upgraded at this point. So 2x 233 (I think that's the cap) which would be higher than your Normal Raids.

The only item I can see having a valid point on being hard to get is trinkets since they rarely drop and weapons have been more abundant on quests/Maw WQ so far.

look bro, m8 or whatever you are... I have 239 and 236 weapons from m+, but that is not the point of this post...the thing is I 25 time killed bosses in raid which drop daggers and got 0...and i just wanna bonus roll back...

[Hellobolis]

oh you mean bonus rolls,yeah i guess,when people say bad luck protection i just think about the actual % system they use for some stuff

honestly wouldn't mind them doing that either. something like you should get at least 1 item per raid ID or can't go 20 bosses/dungeons without getting an item. some sort of upper bound to bad luck isn't a bad idea.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

You seem to misunderstand that phrase.
Odd, because what you are describing is exactly what they meant, and this is why its happening in the first place.

Before, loot used to rain from the sky, but you were never really done collecting it between Titanforging, tertiarys, or sockets.

Now, loot is less common, but will not fluctuate wildly in its power per item drop.
So once you get it, you do not need it again for the rest of the tier.

All you are seeing here is bad luck, and perhaps rude guildies who are not willing to trade you the daggers they are receiving but don't need.

And of course, there are daggers from M+ you can also acquire while you wait.

One way or another, bad luck will always happen.

I do prefer the old model though, for sure.

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honestly wouldn't mind them doing that either. something like you should get at least 1 item per raid ID or can't go 20 bosses/dungeons without getting an item. some sort of upper bound to bad luck isn't a bad idea.

That's not possible, because the boss can only drop so many items.
If it WERE possible, people would be funneling in people with bad luck to make sure they get extra items off bosses they really need.

The only solution for this is the bonus roll.
You can't have loot truly independent luck-wise unless you also make it not tradable.

Still, if you went 20 bosses without loot, you are just insanely unlucky.

Its best to do the actual math on this type of thing before changes are asked for, because it helps you realize that unless they just start handing out loot to 20 people every boss, something like this will ALWAYS occur.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Unfortunately most people (including blizzard) don't think so, especially master loot.

too much abuse, and blizzard got tired of dealing with all of the petitions from the "ML MS>OS" pug ninjas.

i do miss bonus rolls though. but they got removed because turbonerds felt "forced" to run lesser tiers to farm titanforges to "stay competitive".

I'd be completely fine with bad luck losing /rolls on loot that actually dropped, but the fact that personal loot is meant to alleviate most problems and all I get is gold/anima, really rubs me the wrong way. Great point about titanforged. Bonus rolls should definitely come back at the very least.

[Hellobolis]

Unfortunately most people (including blizzard) don't think so, especially master loot.

this isn't really a case where you should use "most" people as the determining factor, but the outliers.

"most" people will always have several people to trade loot with so won't run into the crappy side of personal loot. the worst experience "most" people have is getting a piece of loot they don't want but can't give away.

but the flipside is e.g. being a hunter this tier. not only are you the least used armor type, but you also need a bow from 1 boss with a~5 orso item loottable that's UNIQUE, so not even your fellow hunters can trade it to you.

[Aresk]

honestly wouldn't mind them doing that either. something like you should get at least 1 item per raid ID or can't go 20 bosses/dungeons without getting an item. some sort of upper bound to bad luck isn't a bad idea.

Aren't you guaranteed the option of one piece of loot for killing three raid bosses? It may not be a piece you want, or even a piece dropped by those bosses, but you're guaranteed one choice per week as long as you kill three bosses at one difficulty.

[Tarba]

Loot in mmo is pretty much retarded. It's made that way for addiction and compensate easy boring content. But it seems that's what a few players want for some weird reason. So that's enought to continue making it that way.

[Hellobolis]

Aren't you guaranteed the option of one piece of loot for killing three raid bosses? It may not be a piece you want, or even a piece dropped by those bosses, but you're guaranteed one choice per week as long as you kill three bosses at one difficulty.

sure. but im a poor human with feelings who gets sad if he never actually loots something from a boss.

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Still, if you went 20 bosses without loot, you are just insanely unlucky.

yeah. but in a game with millions of loot events every reset, the chance of someone having an insanely unlucky streak is very real.

doing some napkin math the chance to not get loot of 20 raidbosses in a row is 1.15%, that's definitely common enough to happen. getting 1 loot in 14 bosses is already 4-5% chance and that happened to me at start of tier.

and if my mount farming experience is anything to go by: i remember the mounts i got bad luck with a lot more than the ones i had good luck with.

[Elbob]

Loot in mmo is pretty much retarded. It's made that way for addiction and compensate easy boring content. But it seems that's what a few players want for some weird reason. So that's enought to continue making it that way.

While loot often feels bad how would you envision loot going out in a mmo like wow? Its easy to throw shit at a system but if you can't think of something better whats the point.

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Unfortunately most people (including blizzard) don't think so, especially master loot.

too much abuse, and blizzard got tired of dealing with all of the petitions from the "ML MS>OS" pug ninjas.

i do miss bonus rolls though. but they got removed because turbonerds felt "forced" to run lesser tiers to farm titanforges to "stay competitive".

I mean the solution for ML being added back is for it to require the run to be considered a "guild run" (80% of the players from the same guild). If that condition is not met PLoot is forced. The system already knows if its a guild run or not for guild achieve tracking so I can't imagine tying loot type restrictions too it would be "that hard"

As to the guy you quoted. I don't believe that for a second. Its pretty implied there is a BLP system tied to raids. Its pretty consistent to see a piece of gear every ~5 bosses. Obviously it swings up and down as how BLP would stack up vs other players in your raid but the most back to back bosses I have ever seen a player go with my own eyes is 11 unsaved boss kills in a row with no loot. I've seen people who are namely upset at the system claim more but never been presented with proof or found out later that they did get loot in some way but it "didnt count" in their eyes.

Personal belief is that BLP is tied to the current expansions raid bosses and stacks up as you kill them(resetting on loot acquisition). This counts world bosses, but I obviously don't have hard proof of this theory but I'm super open to some one saying they have gone 20+ bosses with no loot and providing a loot tracking addon log to prove it.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

sure. but im a poor human with feelings who gets sad if he never actually loots something from a boss.

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yeah. but in a game with millions of loot events every reset, the chance of someone having an insanely unlucky streak is very real.

doing some napkin math the chance to not get loot of 20 raidbosses in a row is 1.15%, that's definitely common enough to happen. getting 1 loot in 14 bosses is already 4-5% chance and that happened to me at start of tier.

and if my mount farming experience is anything to go by: i remember the mounts i got bad luck with a lot more than the ones i had good luck with.

Right, bad luck is all we are discussing here.
There is no way to fix that.

My suggestion is, if you are regularly seeing luck out of place in this game, you should be documenting it.
If all these people complaining about 1 percent chances all documented their luck and put it together, Blizzard might actually have to respond.

But that never happens, and all we have to go off is your word.

If you are serious about Blizzard changing this, you need to prove they need to change it first, publicly.
Because even if there is a problem here, they are going to hide behind "luck is luck."

[Kallisto]

With Classic I dont mean 2 items per boss for 40 people. Like we had in Cataclysm - MoP - WoD.

Ah Cata where our tank was stuck with a shield from Firelands because one wouldn't drop in either normal or heroic DS
MoP where I was stuck with a dungeon bow on my hunter until late ToT because one simply wouldn't drop for me in any raid at LFR - Herioc anything in the first tier raids.
Similarly, with WoD I was pretty much lumbered with lesser PvE gear because drops weren't happening for me in weapons position until the week before HFC was released.

RNG be RNG. Sometimes gear just doesn't drop for you.

[Infernoxas]

ok...lets see... 7nm and 7hc ner zhul kills...0 daggers drop...7nm and 4hc sylvanas kills...0 daggers drop...so overall 25 kills, 0 daggers drop, and ofc I am class who dual wield, so I need 2 drops...so comon blizz at least bring back bonus loot rolls since I dont give a fck about gv....

That's not what the meaning of "let loot be loot" means. What they meant is you dont have to grind endlessly for that perfect item due to titanforging and/or random generated stats (i.e. corruption). You're basically playing a slot machine that's near impossible for you to win.

At least once your daggers DO drop, that'll be the end of it. No more grinding for a potentially better upgrade.

[Sialina]

you can in fact my boosting team has armor/class stack boosts but it will cost you a bit if you want to pay 25 rogues

Show me an MMO that has gear and over 100k players where you can't buy carry runs.

[Kehego]

you can in fact my boosting team has armor/class stack boosts but it will cost you a bit if you want to pay 25 rogues

so you mean that you cannot in fact, buy a dagger.
You can rent people's time and hope they get one to trade to you. That's 2 different things.

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if you really wanted to buy one, You could buy tokens for money, spend the gold on a carry run with the absolute minimum classes required to kill the bosses and the rest filled up with rogues who could trade the daggers. These runs exist, Stacked trade runs is a thing they are selling, and its not cheap.

No, i have never bought one and never will

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new retail expansion you mean. There is no money for blizzard to be had in classic+ . Its only content patches they can't sell and the only thing they get back is some sub money. Retail expansions is several hundred millions in box sales alone

so you cant buy one, gotcha

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Go turn trade chat on and you'll have an endless stream of boosting posts you can screenshot for yourself.
Want a 236? Just buy some M+ 15 boosts
246? Go buy a KSM package first
252? Mythic raid funnel
259? Nothing is off limits! Though you'll have to shell out some big cash for this one, you probably get a mount too!

But maybe the more important takeaway from my post: you can go spam some M+ without paying for it. You can just play the game. You could ask some rogue buddies to blast keys with you for a second chance at drops.
You could PvP?
Or you could complain that raid-logging doesn't get you everything your heart desires.

so you can't buy one, gotcha

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Buy tokens, sell tokens, buy carry, get funneled gear. You may not specifically get a weapon, but that's not what the guy said, he just said loot.

so you can't buy gear, you can rent people's time and buy drops from them

How is that blizzard making the game p2w?

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considering they lost atleast 80% of the retail population,its VERY likely next expansion will have boe bis weapons droping in raids

cite your sources

[anon5123]

Loot in mmo is pretty much retarded. It's made that way for addiction and compensate easy boring content. But it seems that's what a few players want for some weird reason. So that's enought to continue making it that way.

If everyone could clear the raid once or twice and get all the loot they need from it, there'd be no reason to stay subbed to the game for more than a month during each new content release.

[Orwell7]

If everyone could clear the raid once or twice and get all the loot they need from it, there'd be no reason to stay subbed to the game for more than a month during each new content release.

Oh how misunderstood this genre is..
You know, "fun" comes from 2 sources: the gameplay ITSELF, and the reward structure.
When the gameplay is NOT fun, you only play for gear.

Duh.. most people DO want bis AND compete for warcraftlogs rankings. Those people are left in the dust, and left this game a long time ago.
See, if I enjoy a char/spec, you can give me Torghast, M+, raids, pvp and I just play it for fun. To utilize all their skills, to be "better".

Don't let Blizzard fool you that only loot IS the only thing to strive for! I mean.. if you only play for gear, why are you still playing? What a horrendous way to look at games...

[TbouncerT]

Ah Cata where our tank was stuck with a shield from Firelands because one wouldn't drop in either normal or heroic DS
MoP where I was stuck with a dungeon bow on my hunter until late ToT because one simply wouldn't drop for me in any raid at LFR - Herioc anything in the first tier raids.
Similarly, with WoD I was pretty much lumbered with lesser PvE gear because drops weren't happening for me in weapons position until the week before HFC was released.

RNG be RNG. Sometimes gear just doesn't drop for you.

Oh my yes. It took me 27 weeks to finally get that shield on my pally.......oh the unmerciful rng gods! XD

[Sialina]

Oh how misunderstood this genre is..
You know, "fun" comes from 2 sources: the gameplay ITSELF, and the reward structure.
When the gameplay is NOT fun, you only play for gear.

Duh.. most people DO want bis AND compete for warcraftlogs rankings. Those people are left in the dust, and left this game a long time ago.
See, if I enjoy a char/spec, you can give me Torghast, M+, raids, pvp and I just play it for fun. To utilize all their skills, to be "better".

Don't let Blizzard fool you that only loot IS the only thing to strive for! I mean.. if you only play for gear, why are you still playing? What a horrendous way to look at games...

The age old "fun vs gear" debate, lets not pretend that one or the other is invalid. Read up on the 4 types of players that exist, depending on what category you mostly fall into (you will be a bit of each) different reward structures fit you differently well.

Explorer, needs exploring to do, new continents, dungeons etc.
Achiever, needs things to achieve, new harder bosses, gear, hard achivements.
PvPer, needs there to be working pvp and ways to engage with it.
Social, needs social situations to happen.

Then there are the suggested subcategories like collector, needs things to collect.

For a player mostly in the exploration square, a new continent with hidden pieces of armor and some puzzles will be amazing
but for an achiever, they need new harder dungeons, a new raid boss, loot drops that are hard to aquire.

A collector might want to do both types of content simply to collect the armors from there, but might be frustrated by the puzzles
and not up to the hardest challenges found in dungeons.

Someone just focused on PvP couldn't care less about that new dungeon or the new area added or that new gear set, they want
to kill other players.

And you know what? None of these players are right, or wrong, they just prefer different things, just like you can't argue someone
that likes rice over potatoes in real life is wrong.

So yes, some players will be mainly driven by gear, for them, acquiring gear will be what makes the game fun, for them your idea
of fun, whatever that is because you never told us, might sound very boring.

[Edward Wu]

Looking back at it with 20/20 hindsight, I think some smaller form of rngforging should make a come back, but be designed in a way where it's more enjoyable to hunt for the perfect piece this time around and results in genuine excitement, rather than relief when it is obtained.

[Niwes]

ok...lets see... 7nm and 7hc ner zhul kills...0 daggers drop...7nm and 4hc sylvanas kills...0 daggers drop...so overall 25 kills, 0 daggers drop, and ofc I am class who dual wield, so I need 2 drops...so comon blizz at least bring back bonus loot rolls since I dont give a fck about gv....

the problem with this philosophy is not your bad luck. the problem with this philosophy starts when we talk about Domination Shards, systems and systems over systems.

seriously: if i would live in wonderland and could decide between a wow with warforge/titanforge and NOTHING ELSE, or between a wow with no WF/TF but Shards, Conduits, Azerite gear, Essences, Legendaries, etc. Well, i would choose

INSTANTLY

the wow version with WF/TF but NOTHING else.