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  1. #1

    The Horde is more prone to make and use special weapons than the Alliance

    A trend noticeable in WoW, the novels and the rest of the expanded universe is how the Horde tends to produce and use much more, and to be much more reliant on special weapons or even super weapons to get an edge over their foes than the Alliance is.

    For examples the Old Horde constantly used special weapons and went through rather insane lengths to get an advantage over the Draenei such as them adopting fel magic and using it to forcible grow up their children to get as many soldiers as possible, and also used the Dark Star and later the Red Mist to battle the Draenei. During the Second War they also began to use necromancy with the Death Knights, and used the Demon Soul to enslave the Red Dragons as mounts and war beasts against the Alliance of Lordaeron and their other foes.

    The Forsaken also had this tendency with them creating and using the New Plague, also called the Blight, and other biological weapons and also starting to use special weapons and techniques used by the Scourge such as the Val'kyrs after WOTLK.
    The Blood Elves' mana bomb also come to mind.

    This is a trait that Garrosh Hellscream also retained with him constantly enslaving or blackmailing gigantic beasts such as proto-drakes, magnataurs, krakens or molten giants against the Alliance, as well as relying more and more on dark shamanism,mana bombs and goblin's tech and weapons made by the Blackfuse Cie which would he later use to create and strengthen the Iron Horde.

    In comparison the Alliance uses far less really big and special weapons, and they seem to prefer more conventionnal and generic weapons even if they have certainely the means and minds to produce their own super weapons. In insight this might not be an all bad thing because realistically special weapons are often a case of the "Awesome but impracticable" trope as despite their great power or other genius characteristics they are often too complicated and expensive to be produced in masse, they have often glaring flaws that overshadow their qualities and are often not used in the best way they could be by the military or political leaders responsible for their deployment, and the mantainance is generally very costly too. This was the case for the many secret weapons made by Germany during World War II such as the V1 planes, the V2 rockets or the Messerschmitt Me 262 that were the first jet-powered fighter aircrafts, these weapons were ahead of their time but were often far from practical and their numbers were low and couldn't do anything against the allies' air and naval supremacy and superior numbers and quantity of material.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    A trend noticeable in WoW, the novels and the rest of the expanded universe is how the Horde tends to produce and use much more, and to be much more reliant on special weapons or even super weapons to get an edge over their foes than the Alliance is.

    For examples the Old Horde constantly used special weapons and went through rather insane lengths to get an advantage over the Draenei such as them adopting fel magic and using it to forcible grow up their children to get as many soldiers as possible, and also used the Dark Star and later the Red Mist to battle the Draenei. During the Second War they also began to use necromancy with the Death Knights, and used the Demon Soul to enslave the Red Dragons as mounts and war beasts against the Alliance of Lordaeron and their other foes.

    The Forsaken also had this tendency with them creating and using the New Plague, also called the Blight, and other biological weapons and also starting to use special weapons and techniques used by the Scourge such as the Val'kyrs after WOTLK.
    The Blood Elves' mana bomb also come to mind.

    This is a trait that Garrosh Hellscream also retained with him constantly enslaving or blackmailing gigantic beasts such as proto-drakes, magnataurs, krakens or molten giants against the Alliance, as well as relying more and more on dark shamanism,mana bombs and goblin's tech and weapons made by the Blackfuse Cie which would he later use to create and strengthen the Iron Horde.

    In comparison the Alliance uses far less really big and special weapons, and they seem to prefer more conventionnal and generic weapons even if they have certainely the means and minds to produce their own super weapons. In insight this might not be an all bad thing because realistically special weapons are often a case of the "Awesome but impracticable" trope as despite their great power or other genius characteristics they are often too complicated and expensive to be produced in masse, they have often glaring flaws that overshadow their qualities and are often not used in the best way they could be by the military or political leaders responsible for their deployment, and the mantainance is generally very costly too. This was the case for the many secret weapons made by Germany during World War II such as the V1 planes, the V2 rockets or the Messerschmitt Me 262 that were the first jet-powered fighter aircrafts, these weapons were ahead of their time but were often far from practical and their numbers were low and couldn't do anything against the allies' air and naval supremacy and superior numbers and quantity of material.
    One problem though, not one horde weapon was really any more impractical than their ordinary counterparts, the Alliance is just written as stupid for not using the tools at their disposal, plain and simple.

  3. #3
    Meanwhile, the Alliance ranks are full of what basically could be classified as demigods: Jainas, Night Warriors, Malfurions, Velens ... any of these are supposed to be able to wipe the entire Horde from the face of Azeroth by just giving them the eye if they wanted to.

    And then they have frigging spaceships, flying pirate ships, tanks and gnomes ... Its a good thing the writers usually forget how many gods, spirits and ancestral beings have blessed or given their power to the Alliance characters over the years.

  4. #4
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    When you are always on disadvantage you have to make up for it somehow, Horde is always about struggling to survive by any means they can.

  5. #5
    Because if the Alliance had use their strongest assets just once, the Fourth War literally wouldn't have happened.

    The Fourth War and War of Thorns only happened because the Horde was banking on the Alliance reinforcements not getting to Kalimdor on time.

    Now, if only the Alliance had instant teleportation capabilities that would allow them to instantly teleport their armies to Kalimdor and annihilate the Horde (Ren'dorei Void Teleportation, Vindicaar Beacon Teleportation, Jaina Teleportation, Gnomish Technology, etc. etc. etc.)...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunderella View Post
    Meanwhile, the Alliance ranks are full of what basically could be classified as demigods: Jainas, Night Warriors, Malfurions, Velens ... any of these are supposed to be able to wipe the entire Horde from the face of Azeroth by just giving them the eye if they wanted to.

    And then they have frigging spaceships, flying pirate ships, tanks and gnomes ... Its a good thing the writers usually forget how many gods, spirits and ancestral beings have blessed or given their power to the Alliance characters over the years.
    Quoting for truth. Alliance can easily wipe out the horde, and almost did in MoP. It’s why the faction war stories are worthless, no one can actually lose without upsetting a large portion of your player base. The end result will always be the same “grr we fight… oh no unite against a great evil”.

  7. #7
    True, evil and amoral armies usually have a penchant for creating super weapons because they do not give a damn about the consequences. Besides the Horde tends to fight their wars for one reason only: To destroy and wipe out their enemies and super weapons help with that, while the Alliance usually only wants to stop the Horde from doing just that and thus fights more defensively.
    Take the recent Blood War. The Azerite was found out to have extremly powerful and even beneficial effects (like neutralizing any poison) but the Horde did only care about what powerful weapons they could create from it. The Alliance knew they would do exactly that and tried to stop them.

  8. #8
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    News flash: barbarian culture led by a "WARCHIEF" is more prone to committing mass murder than cultures that do not. More news at 11.

    On a serious note, I think the Alliance is actually more capable of producing weapons of mass destruction than the Horde. The Alliance has the industry and infrastructure to build airships to perform firebombings of Horde cities, produce spaceships that can nuke continents from orbit, mass produce gas and bio weapons, and so on. Only reason the Alliance doesn't is because they have humanitarian values, unlike the Horde.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Only reason the Alliance doesn't is because they have humanitarian values, unlike the Horde.
    They are most definitely better than the horde, but their humanitarian values are pretty much worthless. The Alliance ,or quite a few of its members to be more precise, usually take what they want from natives displacing them, kicking them every now and then to ensure they stay down.

  10. #10
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    They have to. They'd die otherwise.

    They are either barely equal or flat out inferior in most categories. The only way to best someone stronger than you is to change the game or gun them down before they can react.

    What I don't like is that Blizzard can't let the Horde have an up in anything without giving the Alliance a boost it didn't need. If the faction is a group of idiots who can only get by via their strength and dubious methods, don't give the already broken faction the same stuff. The Alliance aren't helpless.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    They have to. They'd die otherwise.

    They are either barely equal or flat out inferior in most categories. The only way to best someone stronger than you is to change the game or gun them down before they can react.

    What I don't like is that Blizzard can't let the Horde have an up in anything without giving the Alliance a boost it didn't need. If the faction is a group of idiots who can only get by via their strength and dubious methods, don't give the already broken faction the same stuff. The Alliance aren't helpless.
    Yes, the Alliance isn't helpless and they should always need their own boosts up to be able of dealing with new weapons used by the Horde. For example in Wolfheart, the Night Elves and their allies should have been more than able of dealing with a small group of Magnataurs when they have faced much worse than these beasts and proved themselves to be very powerful and resilient and versatile foes before, without needing the worgens or Varian.

  12. #12
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    Yes, the Alliance isn't helpless and they should always need their own boosts up to be able of dealing with new weapons used by the Horde. For example in Wolfheart, the Night Elves and their allies should have been more than able of dealing with a small group of Magnataurs when they have faced much worse than these beasts and proved themselves to be very powerful and resilient and versatile foes before, without needing the worgens or Varian.
    The fact that some of those primitive races are still a threat to any faction races is some poor threat scaling.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    The fact that some of those primitive races are still a threat to any faction races is some poor threat scaling.
    Yep this particular scenario, especially made me cringe.

    Same for the Troggs, Gnolls, Harpies, Kobolds or Ogres. They all should be nuisances at best.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Because if the Alliance had use their strongest assets just once, the Fourth War literally wouldn't have happened.

    The Fourth War and War of Thorns only happened because the Horde was banking on the Alliance reinforcements not getting to Kalimdor on time.

    Now, if only the Alliance had instant teleportation capabilities that would allow them to instantly teleport their armies to Kalimdor and annihilate the Horde (Ren'dorei Void Teleportation, Vindicaar Beacon Teleportation, Jaina Teleportation, Gnomish Technology, etc. etc. etc.)...
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    Yep this particular scenario, especially made me cringe.

    Same for the Troggs, Gnolls, Harpies, Kobolds or Ogres. They all should be nuisances at best.
    I think both instances have to do with scale factor of in-game vs. how they are supposed to be in lore. Take for example Astranaar is both easy to get to and about 5 mins of flight from Orgrimmar and 5 from Darnassus/Exodar. In lore it is supposed to be far out in the forest, with reinforcements + spreading the news back to the main Alliance forces stationed on the opposite side of the planet. Same for why the nuisance creatures maintain a threat, because houses right outside of town could be far out from the local guards or some such.

    As for why we haven't seen the Vindicaar yet, bad writing. That thing should have been park over Arathi the moment BfA's pre-patch launched. Turalyon has an interdimensional lightspeed spaceship and he's fighting on a horse?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    A trend noticeable in WoW, the novels and the rest of the expanded universe is how the Horde tends to produce and use much more, and to be much more reliant on special weapons or even super weapons to get an edge over their foes than the Alliance is.

    For examples the Old Horde constantly used special weapons and went through rather insane lengths to get an advantage over the Draenei such as them adopting fel magic and using it to forcible grow up their children to get as many soldiers as possible, and also used the Dark Star and later the Red Mist to battle the Draenei. During the Second War they also began to use necromancy with the Death Knights, and used the Demon Soul to enslave the Red Dragons as mounts and war beasts against the Alliance of Lordaeron and their other foes.

    The Forsaken also had this tendency with them creating and using the New Plague, also called the Blight, and other biological weapons and also starting to use special weapons and techniques used by the Scourge such as the Val'kyrs after WOTLK.
    The Blood Elves' mana bomb also come to mind.

    This is a trait that Garrosh Hellscream also retained with him constantly enslaving or blackmailing gigantic beasts such as proto-drakes, magnataurs, krakens or molten giants against the Alliance, as well as relying more and more on dark shamanism,mana bombs and goblin's tech and weapons made by the Blackfuse Cie which would he later use to create and strengthen the Iron Horde.

    In comparison the Alliance uses far less really big and special weapons, and they seem to prefer more conventionnal and generic weapons even if they have certainely the means and minds to produce their own super weapons. In insight this might not be an all bad thing because realistically special weapons are often a case of the "Awesome but impracticable" trope as despite their great power or other genius characteristics they are often too complicated and expensive to be produced in masse, they have often glaring flaws that overshadow their qualities and are often not used in the best way they could be by the military or political leaders responsible for their deployment, and the mantainance is generally very costly too. This was the case for the many secret weapons made by Germany during World War II such as the V1 planes, the V2 rockets or the Messerschmitt Me 262 that were the first jet-powered fighter aircrafts, these weapons were ahead of their time but were often far from practical and their numbers were low and couldn't do anything against the allies' air and naval supremacy and superior numbers and quantity of material.
    The Alliance are girded with the unbreakable weapon of plot armor. They would have been wiped out multiple times in BFA if it wasnt for multiple Jaina Ex Machina, Anduin turning into Lothar in a split second (also a priest that can wear full plate somehow and do mass rez in combat), Magical flying undead pirate ships that shoot ghost weapons, Tyrande turns into virtually a demigod... the list goes on

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    I think both instances have to do with scale factor of in-game vs. how they are supposed to be in lore. Take for example Astranaar is both easy to get to and about 5 mins of flight from Orgrimmar and 5 from Darnassus/Exodar. In lore it is supposed to be far out in the forest, with reinforcements + spreading the news back to the main Alliance forces stationed on the opposite side of the planet. Same for why the nuisance creatures maintain a threat, because houses right outside of town could be far out from the local guards or some such.

    As for why we haven't seen the Vindicaar yet, bad writing. That thing should have been park over Arathi the moment BfA's pre-patch launched. Turalyon has an interdimensional lightspeed spaceship and he's fighting on a horse?
    Same reason the Horde didnt use the Nightbornes ability to read the leylines to make portals into Stormwind and have Sylvannas go "lulz" as she chucks mana bombs through. Some things are just too silly to use in the conflict because it would be over in seconds if they did.

  16. #16
    Old God Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ehrenpanzer View Post
    The Alliance are girded with the unbreakable weapon of plot armor. They would have been wiped out multiple times in BFA if it wasnt for multiple Jaina Ex Machina, Anduin turning into Lothar in a split second (also a priest that can wear full plate somehow and do mass rez in combat), Magical flying undead pirate ships that shoot ghost weapons, Tyrande turns into virtually a demigod... the list goes on

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    Same reason the Horde didnt use the Nightbornes ability to read the leylines to make portals into Stormwind and have Sylvannas go "lulz" as she chucks mana bombs through. Some things are just too silly to use in the conflict because it would be over in seconds if they did.
    Or why Frodo didnt just fly on an Eagle?

  17. #17
    Stormwind got its shit almost kicked in by gnolls a few years before Warcraft I. Then it was slaughtered with the exception of whoever could hide in the crypts or ran off on a few boats with Lothar by the Horde in the First War. The idea that Stormwind is any kind of industrial or population powerhouse is even more contrived than the situation with the orcs since at least orcs mature faster.

    If anything the issue isn't that the minor races are too strong, but that they're too weak. By all rights constant conflict should've kicked osme of the races to the point where they'd be fairly easy prey to raiders.
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  18. #18
    it is more just related to the horde lore bias, Alliance rarely get shown of anymore sadly,

    The mechas of the gnomes could be so much more diverse and fun as an example.

    Same to dwarf flyers.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    it is more just related to the horde lore bias, Alliance rarely get shown of anymore sadly,

    The mechas of the gnomes could be so much more diverse and fun as an example.

    Same to dwarf flyers.
    Yes it's really sad how underused, or even mistreated in gnomes' case, dwarves and gnomes are and how goblin's weapons and technology within the Horde or Iron Horde is far more highlighted and used in the story whereas dwarves gnomes rarely get any spotlight and when they do it's in their own storyline than in the main story and most of their fantastic inventions and weapons are only used their own storylines.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    it is more just related to the horde lore bias, Alliance rarely get shown of anymore sadly,
    Most spotlight goes to humans, there isn't even a sliver of competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    Yes it's really sad how underused, or even mistreated in gnomes' case, dwarves and gnomes are and how goblin's weapons and technology within the Horde or Iron Horde is far more highlighted and used in the story whereas dwarves gnomes rarely get any spotlight and when they do it's in their own storyline than in the main story and most of their fantastic inventions and weapons are only used their own storylines.
    Blame the root problem, humans

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