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  1. #181
    Honestly this just makes me think WoW going down to near moba level core rotations has ruined people with coddling. I mean i remember that time a bunch of people got banned when blizzard banned users of an addon they thought was to auto silence in pvp and a bunch of people were using it for throne of thunder lfr "because you can't expect people to do all those buttons AND watch where they are standing" and i can't imagine thats gotten better over time.

    But to see people complain the game designed to be played on a playstation controller is too complex seems kind of overreacting. Like Dragoon and Summoner at the very highest end gameplay? yeah i can see it but anything else? you have a core rotation, procs and whatever ties into your job gauge. Thats less things to keep track of at once than playing something like Devil May Cry 5 or For Honour when its "okay you hit X and the tooltip says the thing thats now glowing follows that up" bar a few standouts.

    If it seems overwhelming just stick with it and it makes sense. This isn't a new game taking risks this is an 8 year old succesful game that is clearly doing something right with its gameplay. You just need to deprogram that "mmos and mobas should play roughly the same with different camera angles" mindset blizzard has trained you to think in.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Thats funny. Then how come most people are bad at the game then? If its so braindead easy, everyone would make it and top dps all the time. Truth is, people dont.
    I said rotations are simpler, not that bad players are worse or better.
    There are bad players on every mmo. The pace the game presents it's challenges, the pace at which you gain abilities and how the combat system is learned by the player as well as the design of the encounters all play a role on that.
    You cannot make such a simplistic assumption.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-10-02 at 01:37 PM.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Ok, then what purpose does it serve to make it more complex? If the overall playerbase in MMORPGs are dogshit, why make it difficult?
    Because I wanna enjoy the game when I am playing it with me mates instead of the gameplay being a snoozefest.

    I think "more buttons" is the only half-decent way FFXIV has of going at it from the rotation point of view. I consider mashing buttons bleh, and you can't really make the execution too time-sensitive due to how shit the back-end is.

    They could make it more reactive based on what is actually going on with the fight (i.e. look at what's happening on the screen instead of what is shining on your hotbar), but that might be beyond how the game was built.

  4. #184
    then roll a healer. I get to see the entire fight. I have no rotation at all. Theres not one single combo i have to press. I just... react in real time (and preemptively heal when possible). Its stupidly satisfying in the weirdest way.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Have you played any of them at lvl80? Ninja is almost impossible to play for most people.
    A simple job like Red Mage is about the same difficulty as most WoW specs.
    Idk, rdm is one of the easiest jobs. Just cast vercure and dualcast verraise. After that just pop lucid dreaming and wait for another deadboi.


    Jk. All you gotta do is dont click the same button consecutively and click the flashy cast when procced. After that, combo when needed and its rinse repeat. Lucid dreaming around 55-6500 mana. Use ocd on cooldown.
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    How the fuck is this trolling?

    Discussing moderation is against the rules. Infracted.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    Then the game is not for you unless you are willing to train and get better. In Wow people would say go beat the training dummy for an hour and come back after you can do steady 5k dps and 10k burst dps. In FF14 people would say learn your rotations and then come back
    Cause I find one class hard to play the game isn’t for me?? I beat it twice now, other classes were easy to pick up and understand, then just work on to perfect. I found dancer weird and not easy to understand.
    Could I learn it if given time, ya, but why bother when it wouldn’t be fun and my main does pretty much the same..

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    The dance moves replace the default attack buttons so don't require extra buttons, and they only have 4 default attack actions until their resources get built up. What was so daunting about the job that made you quit?

    IMO, Dancer is one of the easier jobs in the game, and most like WoW jobs with their reliance on procs and how they don't have a fixed rotation like most others in FFXIV.
    All I saw was a bunch of moves that were not easy to understand. No where in the lead up quest does it say anything about how to play it so you go in blind. It may be easy for some but it looked way to odd to me.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilyaki View Post
    All I saw was a bunch of moves that were not easy to understand. No where in the lead up quest does it say anything about how to play it so you go in blind. It may be easy for some but it looked way to odd to me.
    That is a problem for many of the classes that start later; you get a shitload of buttons with no idea what to do with any of them.

    That said, it only takes 5 minutes or so (if that) of reading the tooltips to understand what they are, what they do, which combos there are etc...

    So while I don't disagree that it could be handled better (a LOT better), it's entirely within your power to figure it out yourself, and if you don't, that's your own fault.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    That is a problem for many of the classes that start later; you get a shitload of buttons with no idea what to do with any of them.

    That said, it only takes 5 minutes or so (if that) of reading the tooltips to understand what they are, what they do, which combos there are etc...

    So while I don't disagree that it could be handled better (a LOT better), it's entirely within your power to figure it out yourself, and if you don't, that's your own fault.
    Ya I was being a bit lazy. But I did read the tool tip and looked up videos of it before hand, just didn’t seem to click. Could brut force it for a while of a target but I didn’t. Gunblade did the same and I got a better handle on that, but yes the late start classes need a better intro other than, here’s 15 move now go be the warrior of light!

  10. #190
    Imo it's similar even on classes you start with at level 1, depending on how you level. I did WHM mostly in MSQ and leveling roulette after 50. I think yesterday was the first time I got into a 60+ instance (he's 66 now), and in the beginning I forgot half my spells - as WHM gets most variety in his toolkit after 50. Luckily it was in an easy instance, where no big pulls are even possible due to walls. But would it have been one of the harder ones like Bardam's, the tank would definitely have dropped a few times in the beginning.

    Stuff like this just takes a bit of time getting used to, and to get it into muscle memory.
    Last edited by Frostfred; 2021-10-04 at 04:01 PM.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostfred View Post
    Imo it's similar even on classes you start with at level 1, depending on how you level. I did WHM mostly in MSQ and leveling roulette after 50. I think yesterday was the first time I got into a 60+ instance (he's 66 now), and in the beginning I forgot half my spells - as WHM gets most variety in his toolkit after 50. Luckily it was in an easy instance, where no big pulls are even possible due to walls. But would it have been one of the harder ones like Bardam's, the tank would definitely have dropped a few times in the beginning.

    Stuff like this just takes a bit of time getting used to, and to get it into muscle memory.
    There's an option in the Duty Finder settings that limits the choices of dungeons to one within 8 levels of your character/ the lowest level character in the group.

    With so many players still coming up through the MSQ it makes sense that people would get thrown into the lower level MSQ dungeons, but there's plenty of people at higher level just doing roulettes that you will get grouped with in a reasonable time frame.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Limited Roulette only works if you queue as a group of 4, though.
    Fair point. Thanks for that.

  13. #193
    Part of the problem is that the developer's insist on duplicating every ST ability with an AoE equivalent, rather than making the AoE rotations interesting and unique. They're especially doubling down on this in EW and it's disappointing. The fact that they also didn't merge combo abilities into one button (which you can do with a plugin) is also disheartening.

  14. #194
    I play dancer because it felt most like WoW to me.
    Mobile, fish for procs, dump fans during CD phase.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    Part of the problem is that the developer's insist on duplicating every ST ability with an AoE equivalent, rather than making the AoE rotations interesting and unique. They're especially doubling down on this in EW and it's disappointing. The fact that they also didn't merge combo abilities into one button (which you can do with a plugin) is also disheartening.
    Probably because aoe rotations aren't exactly something of importance, and are only relevant in a dungeon, where you're popping CDs and burning down enemies real quick in a wall to wall pull. Why would that ever need more than 2 buttons? Totally agree that there's no reason they can't chain direct combos into one button, though.

    I don't think that it's as bad as people make it out to be as a whole. I like that all of the jobs play differently, and some have more buttons/difficult rotations, while others are more simple. Some do crazy damage if you know a fight, and do a lot worse if you do not. You can't play a BLM then be upset by that, because even world first chasers won't touch a BLM until they know a fight due to movement. The fact that someone perfecting their job, or even just playing and knowing it really well, can do so much better than someone who complains that they have too many buttons to push, is something I quite like. You put the time in, you get rewarded a bit more.
    *Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    Part of the problem is that the developer's insist on duplicating every ST ability with an AoE equivalent, rather than making the AoE rotations interesting and unique. They're especially doubling down on this in EW and it's disappointing. The fact that they also didn't merge combo abilities into one button (which you can do with a plugin) is also disheartening.
    Well thats because the plugin is 3rd party and you could get banned using it if you are dumb enough to stream while using it.
    Combos are the "git gud" aspect of FFXIV. When you can do the combos by memory then the next job is to learn the positionals of the combos. Flank and rear.

    Just deciding not to even try learning means when SE cracks down on that plugin you have to learn the hard way.

  17. #197
    i felt summoner was getting bloated as i leveled it up. though i learned the macro system around lvl 65 and that cut back on required keybinds quite a bit.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Lets not try to make it sound like something it isn't.

    You don't "learn" combos, they're 1-2-3. You don't deviate from them, you don't make decisions, you don't even memorize them. They're just one button in the form of three buttons generally.
    Pretty munch this, it just takes up ui space. If you play with controller like me, every button matters or else you be double tapping into othe screens and what not to get to abilities..

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    Well thats because the plugin is 3rd party and you could get banned using it if you are dumb enough to stream while using it.
    Combos are the "git gud" aspect of FFXIV. When you can do the combos by memory then the next job is to learn the positionals of the combos. Flank and rear.

    Just deciding not to even try learning means when SE cracks down on that plugin you have to learn the hard way.
    People stream with 3rd party addons all the time whether it's cosmetic, UI, or performance oriented.

    Combos are NOT the git gud of this game. This is so comically inaccurate that you're either hilariously ill-informed or deliberately malicious.

    If you're genuinely interested in what the git gud is in this game, it's uptime management; not combo management.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    Well thats because the plugin is 3rd party and you could get banned using it if you are dumb enough to stream while using it.
    Combos are the "git gud" aspect of FFXIV. When you can do the combos by memory then the next job is to learn the positionals of the combos. Flank and rear.

    Just deciding not to even try learning means when SE cracks down on that plugin you have to learn the hard way.
    There is 0 skill involved in doing combos, as others have said. They just take up hotbar space.

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