Do all classes require 15+ buttons rotations?

[Echo of Soul]

I've only really played Bard, Ninja, and Monk (very little).

Ninja is really easy. One "main combo" rotation with a big burst window every 45 seconds or so with the Mudra/Trick Attack setup.

Bard is more or less keeping up dots/group buffs and reacting to procs.

Monk is maybe 7-8 but it's in 3 button repeating combos that you do to maintain buffs and debuffs. The only thing I don't like (probably because I'm just not used to it) is positionals. Monk has a lot of those.

This is all at a very basic understanding of the game though. Not savage raiding experience.

In what world is Ninja easy?? It's the most complicated one imo.

[Nootz]

In what world is Ninja easy?? It's the most complicated one imo.

Like I said I'm not savage raiding or anything but outside of the trick attack burst it's very very simple. And the only reason that is complicated is remembering the mudra keybind orders and not double tapping because your spammy ADHD fingers can't help it.

Other than that you 1-2-3 and keep up your skill speed buff.

[Katchii]

In what world is Ninja easy?? It's the most complicated one imo.

As others have said, it's not all that complex, you just press buttons faster than most other jobs. Outside of a very window, which once you get the hang of it it's not hard at all, it's a very straight forward 1-2-3 combo while you keep your speed buff up, which after you use your mudra to apply it at the beginning of the fight just requires a slight variation of the 1-2-3 combo to maintain.

[gaymer77]

Take for example White mage, I got cure 1(single targe) cure 2(single target+) Cure 3(for some reason targeted AOE)... and it frustrates me because it seems so unnecessary since there is the Medica line of spells which are AOE.

High end WHM, Paladin,and Bard here. WHM has a toolkit they can heal from depending on what the situation involves and have several different instant cast (OGCD) heals they can toss out in between heals or doing your DPS. Cure 1 is a trash spell once you get cure 2 for several reasons. The amount of heal per mana cure 1 costs compared to the heal per mana cure 2 costs is largely in favor of using cure 2. Unlike WOW, you should never be topping players off with direct heals unless you are in the highest of the highest of the highest difficulty and even then 99% of them time you shouldn't be. Tankbusters (those hard hitting, scripted, and long time between hits from a boss) hit at the most 90% of a tank's health and that's no factoring in ANY type of defensive cooldown a tank uses...which are a lot available to them. There is no "rotation" for a healer incuding astrologian other than them using their card buffs before the next one is coming off cooldown. The best way to play a WHM is to understand that a simple regen will heal your raid up with no direct healing required outside of the tank who might need a direct heal every now and again. Going back to the amount of damage a tank takes, your cure 2 will heal a tank for around 1/3 to even 1/2 of their health. That means that if a boss is hitting the tank for 10% of his HP, any heal you do above the tank being 66% or 50% is literally wasted mana because it overhealed them. As others have mentioned, BLM is pretty straight forward at 80. It is probably the easiest of the caster dps jobs. Bard is one of the easiest dps jobs I have seen because its simply refreshing your dots, using your songs when they come off cooldown, and using your other skills as they become available (like any other class in any other MMO that has a proc). Bard is literally 100% instant cast attacks/buffs with stuff on a 15 second recast timer. Quite frankly paladin has a more button pushing rotation than any other tank, healer, and some dps since a paladin actually has a rotation where we do physical damage and a rotation where we do magical damage.

[Irian]

If you want to play WoW, play WoW. I hugely prefer the design of FFXIV classes because they're not just "hit the button that lights up" priority system. WoW doesn't even have anything that can be considered openers or rotations anymore.

OP is exactly what I was afraid of when there was a huge WoW exodus to FFXIV, people coming to the game and then starting to demand the game just be WoW instead of being its own thing. WoW is still there if you'd prefer to play that, and it's not going anywhere.

[confety]

The wow vs ff14 combat discussion always makes me think how bad someone who says: (insert game) combat is bad because (insert stupid reason) is.

you can be picky about both games:

- But combos are dumb because you should just make it one button!!!!111

- But everything in wow nowadays is a rogue with sometimes a dot and pressing the shiny button!!!111

Grey parses overflow resource/no positionals andies getting mad at one game because they are just bad at it, just stop, both games' combat are enjoyable

[Delever]

The wow vs ff14 combat discussion always makes me think how bad someone who says: (insert game) combat is bad because (insert stupid reason) is.

you can be picky about both games:

- But combos are dumb because you should just make it one button!!!!111

- But everything in wow nowadays is a rogue with sometimes a dot and pressing the shiny button!!!111

Grey parses overflow resource/no positionals andies getting mad at one game because they are just bad at it, just stop, both games' combat are enjoyable

In general people claim they want new things but in the end they demand all MMOs to be the same with a different skin. Combat in XIV is different and its fine. If you do not find it enjoyable then too bad I guess theres a multitude of other games to play.

[Aucald]

Let's drop the growing game vs. game invective as concerns WoW and FF14 and focus on FF14's button rotation or APL's for given jobs.

[Devilyaki]

I feel some classes are just stupid with their moves even with the add on. Took a look at dancer and gave up after doing the starting quest and seeing the moves..

[crusadernero]

This is only a problem from WoW players used to small rotations. I hear that coming from them in every mmo that has more abilities, which is a lot of them now. But, players from the game themselves don't think it's a problem and when things are reduced they consider it a dumbing down of the game.

I am in that camp. Even though WoW's system uses some rng in combat, which imo is a good thing unlike in other aspects of the game, the fact is, the rotations are incredibly simple 3-4 button affairs.
I like how other mmo's have more abilities, more animations, challenge me more by trying to perfectly pull off a rotation while avoiding certain death. It is certainly more engaging to me and looks way cooler.

I mean, must i compare Blade of Wrath from WoW Paladin to the upcoming Endwalker Paladin confeteor combo? One certainly is more satisfying to pull off.
Hecks, only reason my Ret is still enjoyable in WoW is cause i have to juggle 5-6 cooldowns every minute atm, which actually is a lot like the requisciat window in FF.

Thats funny. Then how come most people are bad at the game then? If its so braindead easy, everyone would make it and top dps all the time. Truth is, people dont.

[Echo of Soul]

Thats funny. Then how come most people are bad at the game then? If its so braindead easy, everyone would make it and top dps all the time. Truth is, people dont.

I think you underestimate how bad players can be. Yes almost all the WoW rotations are childishly easy, yet a lot of people still fail.

[crusadernero]

I think you underestimate how bad players can be. Yes almost all the WoW rotations are childishly easy, yet a lot of people still fail.

Ok, then what purpose does it serve to make it more complex? If the overall playerbase in MMORPGs are dogshit, why make it difficult?

wow is on the surface very easy to play, but most people dont push high m+ keys or raid mythic cause it requiers a certain skill ceiling.

Having a million buttons to play doesnt really make a game better either. As in any game, people find whatever does best and stick with that. If they dont, they will suffer. If a player clicks on shit abilities, they will do worse. That works wonders if you do easy content, like LFR, but not if you push mythic. At that point, you go for the meta or gtfo.

[Osmeric]

Thats funny. Then how come most people are bad at the game then? If its so braindead easy, everyone would make it and top dps all the time. Truth is, people dont.

You don't understand the logic. The people who are bad are excluded from consideration because they are bad. They are un-people. So, morally (in this world view) the game is easy for the only people who count, those for whom it is easy.

[crusadernero]

You don't understand the logic. The people who are bad are excluded from consideration because they are bad. They are un-people. So, morally (in this world view) the game is easy for the only people who count, those for whom it is easy.

Sure, I get that. Theres people that deems them only worthy of playing games at a certain way. For some reason complicated games with a million abilities is supposed to be fun, when in reality the very same people probably google the correct build and forget about it.

It should never be about complex rotations or lots of abilities, its about wether or not the gameplay feels great. wow clearly proves that even though the gameplay is somewhat straightforward, it still requires skill & player awareness to perform good.

New world is another example. Few abilities, but good players will always be better.

[crusadernero]

1) In all honesty, most people aren't that bad. I know it's some kind of tradition for everyone in gaming to declare that everyone else is shit and they're the best, but it's generally just nonsense. Maybe they're not trying to progress, or aren't interested in raiding, or any number of reasons why they're not super elite, but I very rarely run into just straight up not-performing-at-all types of people.

2) Of those that really are, most of those people just aren't interested or aren't trying at all. I think everyone forgets that these are just silly games and most people don't actually take them that seriously. They just log in, talk to Alphinaud or something, and then turn the game off and forget it to go do real life things.

I 100% agree with you. As you said, there are many factors that contributes to why people arent playing the optimal way, and thats not really an issue either. In most cases those people wont group with min/max meta players anyway.

[Katchii]

I feel some classes are just stupid with their moves even with the add on. Took a look at dancer and gave up after doing the starting quest and seeing the moves..

The dance moves replace the default attack buttons so don't require extra buttons, and they only have 4 default attack actions until their resources get built up. What was so daunting about the job that made you quit?

IMO, Dancer is one of the easier jobs in the game, and most like WoW jobs with their reliance on procs and how they don't have a fixed rotation like most others in FFXIV.

[Deneios]

I feel some classes are just stupid with their moves even with the add on. Took a look at dancer and gave up after doing the starting quest and seeing the moves..

Then the game is not for you unless you are willing to train and get better. In Wow people would say go beat the training dummy for an hour and come back after you can do steady 5k dps and 10k burst dps. In FF14 people would say learn your rotations and then come back

[Comfort]

I have always throught the leveling process in FF gives a good amount of time to learn the basics and get to a decent level of play. Looking at the full toolkit when you start you probably will feel overwhelmed if its your first time playing.

And the more you play at level cap the more mastery you develop of the jobs.

There are definitely some jobs with a bit more intricacy later on to them but there are also some that are less complex. For any level of complexity you will learn and get there by playing.

[dope_danny]

Honestly this just makes me think WoW going down to near moba level core rotations has ruined people with coddling. I mean i remember that time a bunch of people got banned when blizzard banned users of an addon they thought was to auto silence in pvp and a bunch of people were using it for throne of thunder lfr "because you can't expect people to do all those buttons AND watch where they are standing" and i can't imagine thats gotten better over time.

But to see people complain the game designed to be played on a playstation controller is too complex seems kind of overreacting. Like Dragoon and Summoner at the very highest end gameplay? yeah i can see it but anything else? you have a core rotation, procs and whatever ties into your job gauge. Thats less things to keep track of at once than playing something like Devil May Cry 5 or For Honour when its "okay you hit X and the tooltip says the thing thats now glowing follows that up" bar a few standouts.

If it seems overwhelming just stick with it and it makes sense. This isn't a new game taking risks this is an 8 year old succesful game that is clearly doing something right with its gameplay. You just need to deprogram that "mmos and mobas should play roughly the same with different camera angles" mindset blizzard has trained you to think in.

[Swnem]

Thats funny. Then how come most people are bad at the game then? If its so braindead easy, everyone would make it and top dps all the time. Truth is, people dont.

I said rotations are simpler, not that bad players are worse or better.
There are bad players on every mmo. The pace the game presents it's challenges, the pace at which you gain abilities and how the combat system is learned by the player as well as the design of the encounters all play a role on that.
You cannot make such a simplistic assumption.