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  1. #1

    Question Are draenei and gnomes comparable to the elven races in terms of magical prowess?

    The eredar were among the most advanced races in arcane magic. And yet, it is surprising that today's draenei mages seem at best only comparable to those of other races, and their mages seem to be far from the majority. There does not seem to be a single significant draenei mage, and I'm not sure if there is any within the ranks of the Kirin Tor.

    The gnomes seem to be skilled arcanists as well - they are extremely imaginative and intellectual, optimal traits for most any mage, and they are very commonly found in the ranks of the Kirin Tor, and part of the Council of Tirisfal.

    But how do they compare with the night elves and blood elves / high elves, for example? Which race is the most gifted and powerful of the four races? Are they for example, generally more formidable and skilled, than the elves, or are they roughly equal to them in proficiency? Who would in a fight between them, if the draenei and gnomes' mages, for example, joined forces together and attacked those of the elven races?
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  2. #2
    Absolutely yes - Draenei are far more advanced with arcane magical practices than the Elves. Only Queen Azshara stood above the average Eredar Sorcerer.

    Gnomes likely learned magic from the High Elves and Humans, but we have never seen much of what they can do, so it's hard to place them.

    I would say:
    1) Draenei
    2) Elves
    3) Gnomes

    (Just factoring these three sections)

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    The eredar were among the most advanced races in arcane magic. And yet, it is surprising that today's draenei mages seem at best only comparable to those of other races, and their mages seem to be far from the majority. There does not seem to be a single significant draenei mage, and I'm not sure if there is any within the ranks of the Kirin Tor.

    The gnomes seem to be skilled arcanists as well - they are extremely imaginative and intellectual, optimal traits for most any mage, and they are very commonly found in the ranks of the Kirin Tor, and part of the Council of Tirisfal.

    But how do they compare with the night elves and blood elves / high elves, for example? Which race is the most gifted and powerful of the four races? Are they for example, generally more formidable and skilled, than the elves, or are they roughly equal to them in proficiency? Who would in a fight between them, if the draenei and gnomes' mages, for example, joined forces together and attacked those of the elven races?

    The Draenei/eredars are ALLOT more advqnced then the other races. You most keep in mind they have been refugees for 25000 years thats longer then the existance of elven races

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Old God Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Long life among elves doesn't equal out to improved prowess, they're no more advanced than some of the races they taught magic to in the first place.

  6. #6
    Well, that is just lack of representation. If we ever get new draenei stories, maybe there will be sone mages, aside of all that priests and paladins.
    Like we have nightborne, the most advanced arcane race in wow. And their leader, more than 10k years old just outmatched by some human mage in her 30. And even she feared her! Crazy

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    Well, that is just lack of representation. If we ever get new draenei stories, maybe there will be sone mages, aside of all that priests and paladins.
    Like we have nightborne, the most advanced arcane race in wow. And their leader, more than 10k years old just outmatched by some human mage in her 30. And even she feared her! Crazy
    It's long old news that humans have stronger potential with arcane magic than elves, the Troll Wars were the proof of that.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    Well, that is just lack of representation. If we ever get new draenei stories, maybe there will be sone mages, aside of all that priests and paladins.
    Like we have nightborne, the most advanced arcane race in wow. And their leader, more than 10k years old just outmatched by some human mage in her 30. And even she feared her! Crazy
    Draenei peak was legion story arc, they are a retcon race and it shows, blizz has no real direction with them anymore, don't forget canonically the Draenei didn't interfere in the war of thorns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    It's long old news that humans have stronger potential with arcane magic than elves, the Troll Wars were the proof of that.
    The troll wars weren't proof the spell that was unleashed there was not just the humans, but elves and humans combined, we have one source that pretty much ranks them as equals.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Draenei peak was legion story arc, they are a retcon race and it shows, blizz has no real direction with them anymore, don't forget canonically the Draenei didn't interfere in the war of thorns.

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    The troll wars weren't proof the spell that was unleashed there was not just the humans, but elves and humans combined, we have one source that pretty much ranks them as equals.
    One source while the most recent one clearly say that it was the human magi that were the secret weapon of the Human-High Elf alliance and that it was their power helped by the Elven mages that gave them victory.

    That and the HE having been noted to very surprised to see humans' affinity for and prowess with arcane despite their complete lack of experience and exposure to a great pool of magic such as the Sunwell.

    While the ordinary High or Blood Elf mage might be above the medium human mage it will be more because of their long experience with arcane and culture, but the most talented human mages surpass even the best elven magi with the exception of Azshara.

  10. #10
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    I think regardless of what race you switch to, mages all have the same spells. In my eyes they’re all equal.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    One source while the most recent one clearly say that it was the human magi that were the secret weapon of the Human-High Elf alliance and that it was their power helped by the Elven mages that gave them victory.
    They were a secret weapon, but not a deus ex machina, since it wasn't just them roasting the trolls

    What baffled the elves was the hum,an affinity for magic, but it has never in not a single lore source said to be greater than that of the elves. The only source that exists on the matter, says they are pretty much equal.

    That and the HE having been noted to very surprised to see humans' affinity
    True

    for and prowess with arcane despite their complete lack of experience and exposure to a great pool of magic such as the Sunwell.
    This is headcanon

    While the ordinary High or Blood Elf mage might be above the medium human mage it will be more because of their long experience with arcane and culture, but the most talented human mages surpass even the best elven magi with the exception of Azshara.
    There are two mages that managed to wound Arthas during his scourge campaigns , neither was human just saying.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    They were a secret weapon, but not a deus ex machina, since it wasn't just them roasting the trolls

    What baffled the elves was the hum,an affinity for magic, but it has never in not a single lore source said to be greater than that of the elves. The only source that exists on the matter, says they are pretty much equal.



    True



    This is headcanon



    There are two mages that managed to wound Arthas during his scourge campaigns , neither was human just saying.
    Since the elves were threatened with the prospect of extinction before the humans, how the humans quickly learned magic and to produce such a devastating attack after less than a year of training, and how their power was devastating enough to nearly annihilate the Amani army and to destroy the physical forms of the Loas which the Elves hadn't suceed at before allying with the humans it kinda is a Deus Ex Machina.

    That's not something that implies that the races are equals in terms of raw power.

    And it's not headcanon that humans had no experience with magic before this war and that they hadn't a frequent exposure to the Sunwell or the Well of Eternity before that.

    And the strongest mages in history, after Azshara herself and not counting the guardian powers, are majorly dominated by human mages such as Khadgar, Jaina or Aegwyn who went as far as matching Medivh with the guardian powers and nearly won despite the massive difference in power between the two.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    Since the elves were threatened with the prospect of extinction before the humans, how the humans quickly learned magic and to produce such a devastating attack after less than a year of training, and how their power was devastating enough to nearly annihilate the Amani army and to destroy the physical forms of the Loas which the Elves hadn't suceed at before allying with the humans it kinda is a Deus Ex Machina.
    It was so devastating, because all the mages pooled their power together, this is literally something that had never been done before.

    That's not something that implies that the races are equals in terms of raw power.
    But there are lore sources saying they are, while there is literally none that says otherwise.

    And it's not headcanon that humans had no experience with magic before this war and that they hadn't a frequent exposure to the Sunwell or the Well of Eternity before that.
    It is headcanon that they are more powerful, their prowess isn't mentioned in direct comparison, except for the olds wizards almanac, you simply have no canon source to back up the claim humans are more powerful as a race.

    And the strongest mages in history, after Azshara herself and not counting the guardian powers, are majorly dominated by human mages such as Khadgar, Jaina or Aegwyn who went as far as matching Medivh with the guardian powers and nearly won despite the massive difference in power between the two.
    Bullshit mages aren't majorly dominated by humans or elves, but by dragons and eredar.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2021-08-28 at 06:59 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azoorin View Post
    The Draenei/eredars are ALLOT more advqnced then the other races. You most keep in mind they have been refugees for 25000 years thats longer then the existance of elven races
    And yet they have done nothing worth mentioning in that regard since their very introduction. As a matter of fact, high/blood elves are pretty much in the same boat as well, since all the cool magic tricks are reserved for human mages, especially creator's pet Jaina.
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

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  15. #15
    If you count the Guardian of Tirisfall as human then it's hard to argue against Aegwyn and Medivh. Outside of that we've not really seen top tier mages duke it out mano e mano so it's speculative at best.

    Sure you could make a reasonable assertion that Azshara, Elisande and CoD Kael'thas could easily slap basically 99,9% of mages regardless of race. You could make the same assertion about pre-demon Archimonde potentially

  16. #16
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sighy View Post
    If you count the Guardian of Tirisfall as human then it's hard to argue against Aegwyn and Medivh. Outside of that we've not really seen top tier mages duke it out mano e mano so it's speculative at best.

    Sure you could make a reasonable assertion that Azshara, Elisande and CoD Kael'thas could easily slap basically 99,9% of mages regardless of race. You could make the same assertion about pre-demon Archimonde potentially
    Guardians are also pretty boosted since they have the combined might of multiple mages + their own. But I would like to believe Medivh and Aegwyn would still stand out as the top human sorcerers.

    But I'd argue Draenei are the strongest race on most fronts, including arcane. They're the Utopia meme if all Elves and gnomes worked together.
    Last edited by Rozz; 2021-08-29 at 06:59 PM.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    Guardians are also pretty boosted since they have the combined might of multiple mages + their own. But I would like to believe Medivh and Aegwyn would still stand out as the top human sorcerers.

    But I'd argue Draenei are the strongest race on most fronts, including arcane. They're the Utopia meme if all Elves and gnomes worked together.
    Even without her guardians powers left Aegwynn was capable of fighting her possesed son and to get him desperate enough to do a massive energy drain spell which turned Karazhan and Duskwood in the haunted places they are today to be finally able of defeating her.

    That should make her the strongest human mage , and mortal mage of all time, not counting Azshara and the demonic eredar lords.

  18. #18
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    Even without her guardians powers left Aegwynn was capable of fighting her possesed son and to get him desperate enough to do a massive energy drain spell which turned Karazhan and Duskwood in the haunted places they are today to be finally able of defeating her.

    That should make her the strongest human mage , and mortal mage of all time, not counting Azshara and the demonic eredar lords.
    I would like to put her on the same tier as Azshara personally. She's Jaina's full potential atm since that's the only present-day human that has come close.
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  19. #19
    To go back to the subject it's a real shame that we never really saw the Eredar and Draenei's potential and power in action given how strong and advanced their civilization was and how frequently they have been described as among the best mortal mages in the universe.

    Same to a lesser degree for the gnomes, given how smart and creative, which are essential advantages in magic, they are and the potential they have as a titanic descendant race. They have been described as having the most varied and vast repertoire of spells in Azeroth but it's never shown onscreen and their best magic users are all used as gag characters or killed off such as Kindy Sparkshine, Jaina's deceased apprentice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    I would like to put her on the same tier as Azshara personally. She's Jaina's full potential atm since that's the only present-day human that has come close.
    Yep given how she was able of defeating the Avatar of Sargeras, who was surprised by her strength, and fared so good against her son who had the guardian powers that she had given up, I wouldn't be surprised if guardian Aegwynn would have been able of matching or even defeating Azshara.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    Even without her guardians powers left Aegwynn was capable of fighting her possesed son and to get him desperate enough to do a massive energy drain spell which turned Karazhan and Duskwood in the haunted places they are today to be finally able of defeating her.

    That should make her the strongest human mage , and mortal mage of all time, not counting Azshara and the demonic eredar lords.
    She was fighting fel fueled medivh though. Which doesn't necessarily mean she was fighting a fellow mage, more a berserker warlock with some arcane splashed in. I think it's safe to say given the polarity differences pf those magic schools you can't outright say she's the strongest mortal mage ever.

    Dadgar would probably be the strongest mage as his power rivaled the guardians without any multipliers which was why everyone wanted him to take it on. Plus WoD really fleshed out his powers as well.

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