Why the negative response to all the positive changes in 9.1.5

[Rageonit]

I did not notice a single positive change in 9.1.5. Every change is net negative to the game. It's a sure way to ruin WoW.

This. No conduit energy will surely destroy all the fun that's still left in the game. We're doomed.

[sam86]

It's funny some of you pretend they don't listen to feedback cause they didn't listen to stuff connected to covenants (not to mention it wasn't unified feedback from whole community). Scraping AP grind, loot -forgings, targetable legendaries, PVP vendor etc. - all wanted things are forgotten next day they are introduced and that other thing becomes THING THAT DESTROY WOW. People actually praised Blizzard for listening during SL Alpha/Beta (unlike BfA Alpha/Beta).

Also obviously people starting to quit February/March is because covenant choice, not because there was no new patch. Duh.

This patch is just typical lifting off restriction from launch on late expac. Done sooner than usual, cause SL should perform better at this stage of expansion. Don't make from it Mike Ybarra descending from heavens to punish Ion and bring back balance to the force.

i can't talk about Shadowlands beta, but I can give easy example that they don't listen
AP grind in Legion
literally no one, not a single feedback was supporting how bad AP grind was, it was unified that it was shit, the difference was some claim it is just bad while others claim it is the WORST grind in wow history
And guess what? blizz 'answer' was wait for game release to see and research will 'fix' it
the result? literally the WORST grind in wow history, even worse than Timbermaw rep that used to be the worst
No blizz don't listen to feedback on purpose to stuff that reduce addiction like grind, heck in SL torghast was way better in beta than live server and all reviews claim (and i did see some footage) that Torghast beta was way better than Torghast live (btw i still love Torghast and consider it best in SL)
so pls don't kiss actiblizz a88 because its u who pay to them not other way around, u won't gain shit, and they proved many times they don't give a fuck about us as humans, just idiots who need to be separated from their monies (yes kodick did say something similar before when asked about game prices)

@ topic:
easy because SL problems wasn't customization for an already reskinned race, it was many other things like how horrible anima was, brutal punish of covenant change, etc
in fact did anyone at all quit wow because dranei hd didn't have ass tattoos and i missed that?

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Truly additional Character customisation will be the downfall of wow!!!

no it is good, but it wasn't asked, and they are for reskinned races, dranei and nelf hd
don't get me wrong, customization is great always, but they seem afk of the system problem, azerite was shit and they tried corruption, i did NOT play patch 8.3 (did play bfa), but at least they did try

[Newname1234567890]

i can't talk about Shadowlands beta, but I can give easy example that they don't listen
AP grind in Legion
literally no one, not a single feedback was supporting how bad AP grind was, it was unified that it was shit, the difference was some claim it is just bad while others claim it is the WORST grind in wow history
And guess what? blizz 'answer' was wait for game release to see and research will 'fix' it
the result? literally the WORST grind in wow history, even worse than Timbermaw rep that used to be the worst
No blizz don't listen to feedback on purpose to stuff that reduce addiction like grind, heck in SL torghast was way better in beta than live server and all reviews claim (and i did see some footage) that Torghast beta was way better than Torghast live (btw i still love Torghast and consider it best in SL)
so pls don't kiss actiblizz a88 because its u who pay to them not other way around, u won't gain shit, and they proved many times they don't give a fuck about us as humans, just idiots who need to be separated from their monies (yes kodick did say something similar before when asked about game prices)

@ topic:
easy because SL problems wasn't customization for an already reskinned race, it was many other things like how horrible anima was, brutal punish of covenant change, etc
in fact did anyone at all quit wow because dranei hd didn't have ass tattoos and i missed that?

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no it is good, but it wasn't asked, and they are for reskinned races, dranei and nelf hd
don't get me wrong, customization is great always, but they seem afk of the system problem, azerite was shit and they tried corruption, i did NOT play patch 8.3 (did play bfa), but at least they did try

The people who design skins are not the people who design systems

[Sinx]

NO they shouldn't have. IT was fine the way it was. Players have simply gotten worse and worse with their entitlement and have ruined the game. Doing it now is fine as things should be made easeier now that everyone has been through the system once.

Player entitlement is what is truly destroying this once great game.

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Subscription numbers say otherwise. Just cause YOU think it was ok doesn't change the fact that people have left the game in droves due to these tedious systems and unnecessary limitations. Not to mention that these systems place a massive penalty on those who like to play more than 1 spec, or play alts, both because you need to grind up legendaries (cause running the same trivial torghast runs in and out is so much fun!) and the fact that the covenant that is optimal for your main spec is garbage for your offspecs. And if they make changes to the covenants, flipping the balance, you have to start it all over again (believe I did about 40 torghast runs in a little over a day to sort that crap). Overall the covenant system is a complete and utter disaster in its current form.

And yes, people want it easier today than they did in 2004. The tedious grinds of old don't work in 2021, cause only a small part of the players want that. The popular games in 2021 are quick and convenient. You log on, do the stuff you enjoy, you log off. Most people aren't willing to spend half their week doing repetetive (boring) content they dislike, just to be able to actually do the content they enjoy doing, anymore. And Blizzard saying "we think this is the best for you" doesn't matter squat if the player disagrees and cba playing anymore.

[Zigrifid]

I believe its because most of those "gifts" that blizz does now for wow are actual requests from players since beta of SL , which meant blizz didnt care until it was too late,these changes ingame wont bring changes to the playerbase aka make people return,imo the changes should be drastic and not just "here you can send anima to your alts",specially when an expansion is unfriendly for alts.

[Accendor]

i can't talk about Shadowlands beta, but I can give easy example that they don't listen
AP grind in Legion
literally no one, not a single feedback was supporting how bad AP grind was, it was unified that it was shit, the difference was some claim it is just bad while others claim it is the WORST grind in wow history

Just making clear that you are wrong about that. Litereally my whole "WoW Bubble" loved the AP system because it gave all activities in the game meaning. There was always something to do and it felt rewarding - it was great. Same went for the original legendary system.
As soon as one of us had his legendary and reached the AP cap, the game became extremely boring and one after the other stopped playing.

[mojusk]

We dont praise Them for changes that shouldve been made in the Alpha.
However its a glimmer of light. I Hope they keep it up like this.

[Zyrinx]

Just making clear that you are wrong about that. Litereally my whole "WoW Bubble" loved the AP system because it gave all activities in the game meaning. There was always something to do and it felt rewarding - it was great. Same went for the original legendary system.
As soon as one of us had his legendary and reached the AP cap, the game became extremely boring and one after the other stopped playing.

Yeah it was unpopular here but as a casual I liked both systems, especially Legiondaries 1.0. The random payoff got me out doing things. It was super frustrating on one spec I never got BiS until I'd already done the Mage Tower (prot warrior actually), but overall, yeah it got me playing.

[ohwell]

Because the damage is already done. We told them how bad things would be on launch and they didn't listen. 40 Guild members playing first tier for our mythic guild, as of right now I believe 5 are still subbed.

Anecdotal evidence.

[Rageonit]

"Too little too late" is the average complainer's favourite catchphrase, so without reading the thread, I'm guessing it's mostly that.

[ohwell]

We dont praise Them for changes that shouldve been made in the Alpha.
However its a glimmer of light. I Hope they keep it up like this.

Most of these should NOT have been in the alpha, but keep spewing that lie.

[Zyrinx]

We dont praise Them for changes that shouldve been made in the Alpha.
However its a glimmer of light. I Hope they keep it up like this.

But yeah all of this, I personally don't care for the tone of the announcement either ( feels a little like "you think you do, but you dont, but we will throw you a bone this one time")

[ohwell]

Subscription numbers say otherwise. Just cause YOU think it was ok doesn't change the fact that people have left the game in droves due to these tedious systems and unnecessary limitations. Not to mention that these systems place a massive penalty on those who like to play more than 1 spec, or play alts, both because you need to grind up legendaries (cause running the same trivial torghast runs in and out is so much fun!) and the fact that the covenant that is optimal for your main spec is garbage for your offspecs. And if they make changes to the covenants, flipping the balance, you have to start it all over again (believe I did about 40 torghast runs in a little over a day to sort that crap). Overall the covenant system is a complete and utter disaster in its current form.

And yes, people want it easier today than they did in 2004. The tedious grinds of old don't work in 2021, cause only a small part of the players want that. The popular games in 2021 are quick and convenient. You log on, do the stuff you enjoy, you log off. Most people aren't willing to spend half their week doing repetetive (boring) content they dislike, just to be able to actually do the content they enjoy doing, anymore. And Blizzard saying "we think this is the best for you" doesn't matter squat if the player disagrees and cba playing anymore.

Where's those magical sub numbers you have access to?

[Sin of Pride]

Where's those magical sub numbers you have access to?

Usually people use the info gathered from every character played who has appeared online in the last sixty days. There are a few different places to access this info its how we found out covenants failed so brutally hard.

Now its not perfect it inflates the number of players since it can't account for alts.

[CaptainV]

Honestly the reason the negative response exists is blizzard took forever to add content needed from the start, ignored the feedback in beta, didnt properly test their game and released a game that is essentially self-destructive.

And, adding insult to injury, these are patch job fixes, they dont add anything of real value, 9.1.5 is basically the bandaid to the bigger issue.

And thats why its failed.

[Sin of Pride]

Honestly the reason the negative response exists is blizzard took forever to add content needed from the start, ignored the feedback in beta, didnt properly test their game and released a game that is essentially self-destructive.

And, adding insult to injury, these are patch job fixes, they dont add anything of real value, 9.1.5 is basically the bandaid to the bigger issue.

And thats why its failed.

It is a desperate attempt to stem the damage they expect to get from endbringers. Most of these changes should be hotfixed in. They don't warrant a patch its simply disabling systems...

[Dracullus]

Usually people use the info gathered from every character played who has appeared online in the last sixty days. There are a few different places to access this info its how we found out covenants failed so brutally hard.

Now its not perfect it inflates the number of players since it can't account for alts.

Do you have comparison with number of EU/NA active characters from BfA's 8.1.5 or Legion 7.2? It's only way this data could be any useful (assuming same % of players participate in SL content and don't just level/collect older stuff on BfA account).

i can't talk about Shadowlands beta, but I can give easy example that they don't listen

I was talking about SL Beta and you're giving example from Legion? Hell, I even contrasted it with BfA Beta, which kinda indicate I don't think they ALWAYS listen.

(Also obviously I don't think listening to loud part of community is always good thing.)

[Sin of Pride]

Do you have comparison with number of EU/NA active characters from BfA's 8.1.5 or Legion 7.2? It's only way this data could be any useful (assuming same % of players participate in SL content and don't just level/collect older stuff on BfA account).

Hmm now that is a good question. I think they are achieved I admit I had/have no person interest in that info so I never sought it out and I don't know if it would of been archived. That said unlike covenant data I don't know how much you could invest in that data from bfa to sl as it will include alts... your best bet would be to look at raid participation including lfr to get a better grasp but even then it won't be perfect.

[The Stormbringer]

I think people read to much into this... it's common from the blue posts that they tie in changes with lore, mostly for amusement. They even did the same with the turtles WQ change in BFA... and I think it's a safe bet it wasn't changed DUE to lore but to complaints. They just use lore to make it more fun/make sense in the updates.

maybe it's just me though...

You say "have it make sense" and "make it more fun", I say "justify their bullshit" and "obfuscate their bad decisions".

[Dracullus]

Hmm now that is a good question. I think they are achieved I admit I had/have no person interest in that info so I never sought it out and I don't know if it would of been archived. That said unlike covenant data I don't know how much you could invest in that data from bfa to sl as it will include alts... your best bet would be to look at raid participation including lfr to get a better grasp but even then it won't be perfect.

But it's often comparing apples to oranges. Let's say during MoP ultra casual often had only LFR, cause gear was pretty good and there was less casual things to do overall. Now you can outgear LFR almost asleep, and things like mount or transmog hunting are enormous compared to even WoD.

Second example - M+ was fresh idea during Legion, so it could be far more popular back then. And weekly chest required you to play M+. Now you can ignore it and get weekly stuff from PVP/raid.

Sadly we will never get specific data if Blizzard won't provide it. All we can detect is general trend.. which we already know, middle expac lose ~50% of players from launch (or rather gain this 50% on launch short term). If I had to assume, I would say SL is doing worse than BfA for 3 main reasons (9.0 drought, Blizzard PR, TBC Classic hype is smaller than Vanilla). But it will be always just assumption.

But it's not like we need that data, you will have bad time on empty server with 10M subs, you will have better time on busy server with 4M subs. Blizzard needs this data and they have it. For years people used mid expac subs (and since WoD their imagination) for doomsaying, but doomsaying 10 years later is just ridicolous.