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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by BigToast View Post
    In a player base so large there will always be a faction that is not satisfied. With WoW you get a little more of a special group: those who thrive on complaining, like they know no other way to communicate with others. And of course they are "loud" on the forums. People are a lot more apt to complain here then to praise anything.
    EXACTLY thats the hot spot here. once, with 7-10+ mio players they in fact had no target audience and a super wide spreaded player base. and that missing target audience and their try to cater to everyone was often the root of many problems.

    but whats about now, with maybe 2mio players at best? maybe its time for them to think about „target audience“. there is no longer the need or a gain, to cater to everyone.

    but the question then will be: WHO is retails target audience ?

    should they just continue doing the game like SL and cater towards the 1 mio that likes that?
    or target the players you lost or loose, to keep them or get them back?

    idk. but when you loose that much players, like they did, i would start thinking about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Many listened to those advices and dont need pathethic "thanks" from white knight.
    he thanks them, after enough are gone, while he is playing literally alone.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Raid's not bad, it's just giga undertuned. We're already progressing at M.Sylv with our 2 3-hour nights a week. The only big wall was Pain, after which 2 subsequent bosses dropped dead in one night and KT followed shortly after.

    I do however shudder to think what will happen in 2 weeks from now when we down Sylv... it will be what, half a year of farm? Big yikes.
    The number of 6 hour guilds (actual 6 hour guilds, not extra day for heroic) who have killed mythic sylv or are even progging on mythic sylv is trivial.

    The raid may be undertuned but this is not at all representative of even the mythic playerbase, which is already tiny.
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Negative response is explained very simply. Players have been complaining about all this crap since SL beta, and Blizzard didn't make the changes until they were embroiled in a huge scandal. They should have done all this stuff right away. It wasn't done in an honest attempt to improve the game, it was done to stop subscription bleeding.
    you should add to above:

    „and it works for some more simple minded ppl, that believe the „honest attempt to improve game“ stuff, while others are „a bit“ more sceptical.“

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    The number of 6 hour guilds (actual 6 hour guilds, not extra day for heroic) who have killed mythic sylv or are even progging on mythic sylv is trivial.

    The raid may be undertuned but this is not at all representative of even the mythic playerbase, which is already tiny.
    To be fair you should really be tracking painsmith progression. Once hes down the rest of the instance is usually mopped up in two weeks.

  5. #385

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    you should add to above:

    „and it works for some more simple minded ppl, that believe the „honest attempt to improve game“ stuff, while others are „a bit“ more sceptical.“
    Yeah, only the real WoW fans complain about literally fucking everything then after they get shit still complain that they had to complain to begin with. These are totally the kind of players that Blizzard needs to listen to.
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    To be fair you should really be tracking painsmith progression. Once hes down the rest of the instance is usually mopped up in two weeks.
    Nothing changes what I wrote. the number of people who get CE even after 6 months is trivial. The number who have it now is inconsequential.

    People need to have perspective.
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    It's funny some of you pretend they don't listen to feedback cause they didn't listen to stuff connected to covenants (not to mention it wasn't unified feedback from whole community). Scraping AP grind, loot -forgings, targetable legendaries, PVP vendor etc. - all wanted things are forgotten next day they are introduced and that other thing becomes THING THAT DESTROY WOW. People actually praised Blizzard for listening during SL Alpha/Beta (unlike BfA Alpha/Beta).

    Also obviously people starting to quit February/March is because covenant choice, not because there was no new patch. Duh.

    This patch is just typical lifting off restriction from launch on late expac. Done sooner than usual, cause SL should perform better at this stage of expansion. Don't make from it Mike Ybarra descending from heavens to punish Ion and bring back balance to the force.
    It was pretty dang unified the only people against being able to easily swap were those who wanted to punish "elitists" and barely played the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    for most its 2 little 2 late, and does little to nothing to combat the RNG on top of RNG that plagues wow right now. Look at its top competitor, want to farm mounts great you get a token for a boss kill save up enough and you can buy the mount if RNG hates you, run dungeons get tokens for gear... it gives you a way to combat bad RNG luck something is lacking imo (esp the mount thing....)
    Man I wish that was a thing in wow also badges need badges back for gear because sometimes rng just hates you.

  9. #389
    I have some hope for Blizzard when they:

    1) Don't add a new arbitrarily restrictive or pain in the ass system in 9.2
    2) Don't add a new arbitrarily restrictive or pain in the ass system in 9.3
    3) Don't add a new arbitrarily restrictive or pain in the ass system in 10.0
    4) Don't ignore good criticism and requests for improvement for one of those 3 (or all) systems and then launch with them the way they were announced
    5) Proceed to "fix" the mess they made with the system in the first place 2 patches later

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Djaye View Post
    blizzard stopped caring about creating a game to attract new players. they cater to the 5% and wonder why they cant keep player subs
    no changes made were done for any reason other than PR damage control.
    they didnt all of a sudden listen to player feedback, its been there for over a year.
    there is no 'new management'. old management is just being quiet. very quiet. everytime they make a statement, they eat shit. so they are staying very quiet.
    there is no redeeming blizzard at this point. there has been too much damage.
    they dont care about making a good game/world anymore.

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    great analogy
    In what world are they catering to the 5%? Top end raiders hate the system upon system upon system believe it or not most high end raiders only want to do prog then raid log. They don't want to spend 15 hours a day the week before prog grinding the latest daily zone or make multiple of the same class to combat shard drop rng.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Imurbandaid View Post
    That wasn't at all my experience. I played beta, I played 9.0, I have 5 toons 230+ doing m+ and continue to have a blast. I dont do assaults, I dont do torghast when I don't want, I don't have to do anything in my order hall besides doing shaping fate and 1000 anima once a week, im 10/10hc and am not even the best covenant on all my toons. I'm really confused, maybe you lot should try playing the game instead of echoing fake complaints here all day.
    You could clear heroic without covenants it isn't hard past the first week. Systemlands is not a good expansion 9.1.5 has the potential to make it semi decent but it shouldn't have taken a year to get here when we provided copious amounts of feedback during alpha and beta.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    In what world are they catering to the 5%? Top end raiders hate the system upon system upon system believe it or not most high end raiders only want to do prog then raid log. They don't want to spend 15 hours a day the week before prog grinding the latest daily zone or make multiple of the same class to combat shard drop rng.
    Nah dude, you see, because {random internet person} cannot fathom somebody liking a thing they don't, they have to blame somebody for it. And because raiders, you know, actually play the game...they're clearly the reason everything sucks.
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Imurbandaid View Post
    Tell me how I had 1 KSM last season and didn't play alts, and that in a few weeks this season I have 3 KSM and 5 toons total over 230 ilvl. Seems really alt unfriendly. Yes I have a full time job, yes I have a fiance and kid, yes I go to the gym 5 days a week and even play some LoL too (since you know the "no lifer" is coming). Literally trolling prolly if youre claiming BfA was more alt friendly then stating exact parallels as to why your complaints about SL aren't even real.
    How is 230 ilvl a metric of anything? We're two months into the patch and that's barely above what people had in the previous patch lol
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    Your not wrong. It's easy to say that the concept of covenants for example are horrible. It's harder to go into detail.

    For example for performance players they are terrible pigeonholing players into one high end, end game unless it just so happens they are so unbalanced one covenant reigns supreme.

    For casual players they offer a pitfall where weeks of progress are shown to be wasted if the gap in covenants was so large it massively hindered their ability to advance in content ( granted outside of mythic this was rare).

    Now that focuses on the game play implications but what about its stated goal of giving the player a sense of individuality and personalization?

    I would argue it failed utterly there to. The covenants offer to easily to obtain rewards for them to feel meaning. Even the hardest cosmetic reward to acquire the kyrian set doesn't really offer a unique enough flare to push people towards obtaining it. The system restricts players without offering them a tangible benefit.

    That said simply saying something terrible is still uselssful even if it's not so in depth just as saying you like something. A lot of the spite towards blizzard stems from their utter disdain and arrogance when it comes to their playerbase...

    I want to make something painful clear. For the past 3 expansions blizzard has failed utterly to provide new forms of content or systems that succeeded with their playerbase barring the exception of the mage tower. This is a company that had thousands of it's best players testing their game for free offer hundreds of thousands of hours of data and thousands of pages of feedback constantly and consistantly warning them of their failures..

    There shouldn't be any wonder why the community is done being charitable in anyway. I can't imagine any other business where you could fail constantly for over three years and still be employed much less still giving of a " we know best" attitude.
    It's actually not hard. Separate player power from the story make covenants harder to change think like a month of their dumb forgiveness quest but purely cosmetic/lore based. We were begging them to do that for months starting with alpha.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinx View Post
    Because these changes should've been there at launch, after they got tons of feedback on these exact changes during the beta. They did the exact same thing in BFA. So far they've proven nothing but their ability to eventually swallow their pride, after stubbornly keeping their course and pissing off players, for over a year.
    It's not "swallowing pride". This is done on purpose. They know the subs will drop and introduce the changes after the drop to try and draw people back.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    It's not "swallowing pride". This is done on purpose. They know the subs will drop and introduce the changes after the drop to try and draw people back.
    Blizzard with the big brain plays: Make the game bad on purpose so they can get players to quit the game and resub when they change the things everybody hates.
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
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  16. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    This. No conduit energy will surely destroy all the fun that's still left in the game. We're doomed.
    Do you realize that conduit energy was made for a reason? Sometimes you gotta make some choices, not just mindlessly selecting best talents and going on.

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    I love how people keep saying: "We told them to do all this a year ago, now it is too late!!!"

    Do you have any friggin idea how many ridiculously stupid wishes and demands they get during a beta? If they would listen to all that nonesense then the game would have to deliver 50 times the content it does just to satisfy halve of them. At some point they have to stick to some design philosophy and cut their losses.

    The infinite arrogance of these forums is astounding, but not really surprising anymore.

    Is Shadowlands perfect? No, of course not. But thinking that your personal input is what would have changed it all for the better is truely the peak of arrogance.

    But to answer the OP. People complain because they enjoy complaining in this forum. That this is still called MMO-Champion is pure irony. Halve of them aren't playing the game at all and just enjoy shitting all over it. There is no change in the game they would not complain about. Blizzard could send everyone 10 million gold tomorrow and people would complain they had to walk to a mailbox to pick it up.
    Do you have any idea how many capped threads were begging them for a ripcord? It was legitimately over 50 before the end of beta and continued in the general forums after until most of the people pushing for it gave up and unsubbed.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Nah dude, you see, because {random internet person} cannot fathom somebody liking a thing they don't, they have to blame somebody for it. And because raiders, you know, actually play the game...they're clearly the reason everything sucks.
    It is ironic. Most raiders I know want nothing more then to seal themselves into their guilds and only log in to raid, do rated pvp, and or mythic plus 25+.

    Yet we want power tied to dailies for...reasons?

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    It is ironic. Most raiders I know want nothing more then to seal themselves into their guilds and only log in to raid, do rated pvp, and or mythic plus 25+.

    Yet we want power tied to dailies for...reasons?
    I'm sure Blizzard will be quick to add the ability to have a full set of Mythic gear as a reward for successfully typing in your username and password. Hopefully this is on their list of features to add in 10.0.
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    I'm sure Blizzard will be quick to add the ability to have a full set of Mythic gear as a reward for successfully typing in your username and password. Hopefully this is on their list of features to add in 10.0.
    I mean it will go into the cash shop with the other mog so who cares at this point?

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