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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Many listened to those advices and dont need pathethic "thanks" from white knight.
    I'm no white knight and you're probabaly a pinko I bet, all you people calling for changes this and that bla bla bla crying about systems you can't get used to, you don't develop the game, the devs at blizzard know what they are doing, everyone just cries so much that they eventually give in, fuck off

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Yeah. The real test if there's a long term change for the better will come down the road. in 9.2 or 9.3 or 10.0 or whenever systems are put into test that are deeply flawed, receive consistent negative feedback, and the systems are changed BEFORE going live. And in general what they do with a flesh slate in 10.0 as a new expansion.
    If they add in a bunch of anti player systems in 10.0 beta and don't fix/remove them before the game goes live I think that most people have been burned one time too many to not accept it anymore and pass on the game.

  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by solidwing View Post
    I'm no white knight and you're probabaly a pinko I bet, all you people calling for changes this and that bla bla bla crying about systems you can't get used to, you don't develop the game, the devs at blizzard know what they are doing, everyone just cries so much that they eventually give in, fuck off
    They give in because they start making less money, the opposite of they know what they are doing lmao.

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by solidwing View Post
    I'm no white knight and you're probabaly a pinko I bet, all you people calling for changes this and that bla bla bla crying about systems you can't get used to, you don't develop the game, the devs at blizzard know what they are doing, everyone just cries so much that they eventually give in, fuck off
    If Blizzard "know what they are doing" - why have they lost over 25% of their MAU across their products in a couple of years, and close to 50% over 5? (last time i checked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssria View Post
    I'm the only guy that has a clue as to what's wrong with the game and how it can be fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Size doesn't matter

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    It does answer it. You just don't like the answer. Cope.
    Blizzard: Here's a new seasonal mount tied to the 6 month subscription

    Players: LOL fucking Blizzard with their Pay2Win cash shop and forced scarcity causing FOMO whales to buy everything on their store!

    Squeenix: Here's a new seasonal mount that we're taking away in a month but you can buy it on the store later

    The same fucking players: Thanks Squeenix, I'm so glad I have the opportunity to buy things after they go away. Please continue to release products like this so that I can continue to buy them from you later. You guys are totally unlike Blizzard!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    If Blizzard "know what they are doing" - why have they lost over 25% of their MAU across their products in a couple of years, and close to 50% over 5? (last time i checked)
    Ah, good thing you have access to Blizzard's internal data and were able to find out, equivocally, that 25% of their MAU losses came from WoW.
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Ah, good thing you have access to Blizzard's internal data and were able to find out, equivocally, that 25% of their MAU losses came from WoW.
    Ah, good thing i VERY CLEARLY said "across their products"....

    *bolts down goalposts so they dont move*
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssria View Post
    I'm the only guy that has a clue as to what's wrong with the game and how it can be fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Size doesn't matter

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    Honestly because they are straight forward with the playerbase and don't promote pay to win.

    There was never some bullshit about hiring special artists to make cash shop items like blizzard nor was their lying about using sales to fund professional players.

    It's the amount of sleaze and bold face lying that has me annoyed with blizzard that and their utter embracing of boosting as a business model.
    Yeah, there definitely isn't boosting in FFXIV.



    Oh, and it's not like you can literally spend $25 to skip an entire fucking game's worth of content. But no, WoW token BAD; FFXIV GOOD!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Ah, good thing i VERY CLEARLY said "across their products"....

    *bolts down goalposts so they dont move*
    The dude you were replying to clearly mentioned WoW. If anybody's trying to move goal posts, it's you.
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post

    The dude you were replying to clearly mentioned WoW. If anybody's trying to move goal posts, it's you.
    My apologies, i was unaware that "The Devs at Blizzard" was only referring to the wow dev team, and all other "devs at Blizzard" are excluded from the conversation.

    The conversation is about the perceived negative reaction to these changes and additions, and if you have followed the conversation at all, many MANY people responding are talking about Blizzard as a whole, the mistakes they have made, the problems they have caused, the poorly received products they have released / announced (OW2, Immortal, War3:refunded).

    OW2 is a strange one - at first even I was quite excited by the announcement - especially the focus on coop-pve content, as thats something a small group of friends i play with really enjoy. But the longer it drags on, the more it looks like an expansion at best - major patch at worst. Nothing about OW2 tells me it is a sequel, and that is quite concerning for me. I have seen many say the same/similar things.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2021-08-31 at 10:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssria View Post
    I'm the only guy that has a clue as to what's wrong with the game and how it can be fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Size doesn't matter

  9. #449
    Because here ppl come to bitch. To find the bad in every post. It's a hobby a lot of ppl have on the Internet. Doesn't matter w hat it is, if you want to complain you will always create a reason.
    The complaining reasoning is pretty easy:
    - even if this is good, this doesn't fix these other bad things
    - even if this is good, it is very late
    - even if it is good, it should have not needed a fix to begin with
    - even if it is good, it will affect new players or whatever
    And other veriations.
    People complain because they like complaining. And it is very rare they just take things as face value and think "is this good for me?" Most of the time it's "can i find a reason to be unhappy about it / to point out its flaws etc?"

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    Because here ppl come to bitch. To find the bad in every post. It's a hobby a lot of ppl have on the Internet. Doesn't matter w hat it is, if you want to complain you will always create a reason.
    The complaining reasoning is pretty easy:
    - even if this is good, this doesn't fix these other bad things
    - even if this is good, it is very late
    - even if it is good, it should have not needed a fix to begin with
    - even if it is good, it will affect new players or whatever
    And other veriations.
    People complain because they like complaining. And it is very rare they just take things as face value and think "is this good for me?" Most of the time it's "can i find a reason to be unhappy about it / to point out its flaws etc?"
    So you dont see a pattern at all? You dont see Blizzard announcing core features to an expansion, and then receiving a lot of very accurate and well articulated feedback with major flaws in the system, only for Blizzard to push forward with it anyway. Months down the track, the start to accept the feedback was right, start making minor tweaks, before eventually "giving in" and making the changes the players requested during alpha/beta. Then, in the final patch of the expansion, the game peaks and is really enjoyable for a few weeks.

    You dont agree this has happened in Legion, BfA, AND SL? Or you dont believe it is a problem? I also find it really amusing that for some weird reason, you preface every complaint with the assumption that all complainants think the content is "good"? Just showing your extreme bias, to be honest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssria View Post
    I'm the only guy that has a clue as to what's wrong with the game and how it can be fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Size doesn't matter

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    My apologies, i was unaware that "The Devs at Blizzard" was only referring to the wow dev team, and all other "devs at Blizzard" are excluded from the conversation.

    The conversation is about the perceived negative reaction to these changes and additions, and if you have followed the conversation at all, many MANY people responding are talking about Blizzard as a whole, the mistakes they have made, the problems they have caused, the poorly received products they have released / announced (OW2, Immortal, War3:refunded)
    Sorry, I just find the criticism of "DAE MAUs DOWN" to be fairly impotent because it lacks any real substantive information for us to draw any actual conclusions from. It's just imaginary numbers players use to support extremely weak positions about the current state of Blizzard's games. It's irritating to see the same three or four talking points regurgitated in every single thread when it's plainly obvious these are people who watched a few Bellular/Asmongold YouTube videos and have absolutely zero critical thinking skills.
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Yeah, there definitely isn't boosting in FFXIV.



    Oh, and it's not like you can literally spend $25 to skip an entire fucking game's worth of content. But no, WoW token BAD; FFXIV GOOD!

    - - - Updated - - -



    The dude you were replying to clearly mentioned WoW. If anybody's trying to move goal posts, it's you.
    Something something abouts pots and kettles. Wow token is infinitely worse than anything square has in its store until they make their own token for gil.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Sorry, I just find the criticism of "DAE MAUs DOWN" to be fairly impotent because it lacks any real substantive information for us to draw any actual conclusions from. It's just imaginary numbers players use to support extremely weak positions about the current state of Blizzard's games. It's irritating to see the same three or four talking points regurgitated in every single thread when it's plainly obvious these are people who watched a few Bellular/Asmongold YouTube videos and have absolutely zero critical thinking skills.
    Its Blizzards own data - its not "imaginary" numbers at all - its hard factual data, data Blizzard themselves rely on when reporting to shareholders. Are you honestly suggesting they just "make up" those numbers? Its literally the number of people playing their products, and it has been in a steady decline for 5 years.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    Something something abouts pots and kettles. Wow token is infinitely worse than anything square has in its store until they make their own token for gil.
    I wouldn't get into an argument about which is "better" or "worse", but i will agree it is quite different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssria View Post
    I'm the only guy that has a clue as to what's wrong with the game and how it can be fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Size doesn't matter

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Its Blizzards own data - its not "imaginary" numbers at all - its hard factual data, data Blizzard themselves rely on when reporting to shareholders. Are you honestly suggesting they just "make up" those numbers? Its literally the number of people playing their products, and it has been in a steady decline for 5 years.
    You don't know which products are doing well. You don't know which products are doing worse. You don't know how many new players each product is bringing in. You don't know how much each of the products are losing. You are looking at one single piece of data (the number of players overall) then making a single deduction without any real idea what the information you're quoting actually means. Sorry I don't find these types of arguments to be particularly compelling because I'd rather discuss ways the game can improve than make baseless statements about why I feel like my opinion is somehow more weighted because MAUs went down.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    Something something abouts pots and kettles. Wow token is infinitely worse than anything square has in its store until they make their own token for gil.
    Lmfao, is this where we pretend people don't buy Gil in FFXIV either?
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Blizzard: Here's a new seasonal mount tied to the 6 month subscription

    Players: LOL fucking Blizzard with their Pay2Win cash shop and forced scarcity causing FOMO whales to buy everything on their store!

    Squeenix: Here's a new seasonal mount that we're taking away in a month but you can buy it on the store later

    The same fucking players: Thanks Squeenix, I'm so glad I have the opportunity to buy things after they go away. Please continue to release products like this so that I can continue to buy them from you later. You guys are totally unlike Blizzard!
    Wake me up when a good chunk of the unique and cool mounts aren't immediately stuffed into the ingame shop without any opportunity to earn them through ingame means. :^)

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Wake me up when a good chunk of the unique and cool mounts aren't immediately stuffed into the ingame shop without any opportunity to earn them through ingame means. :^)
    Half a dozen of one, six of another.
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  17. #457
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    You don't know which products are doing well. You don't know which products are doing worse. You don't know how many new players each product is bringing in. You don't know how much each of the products are losing. You are looking at one single piece of data (the number of players overall) then making a single deduction without any real idea what the information you're quoting actually means. Sorry I don't find these types of arguments to be particularly compelling because I'd rather discuss ways the game can improve than make baseless statements about why I feel like my opinion is somehow more weighted because MAUs went down.
    Discussing MAUs has always been a waste of time. These are far more vague than subscriptions ever were and we don't even know which game they're really tied to. Doesn't matter if it's WoW vs FF14, Classic vs Retail or general "proof" that WoW is dead. Plus, let's not forget that we have no idea about FF player count either - they never reported those and I only recall some "X million accounts created" milestone, which was conveniently "misunderstood" as sub count... and it was long time ago anyway. Or their more recent "we ran out of digital codes", which seems more like a marketing gimmick to me.

    I have my issues with the game (and maybe some ideas from FF that I'd like to see here... like plot that isn't garbage or housing or crafting), but whenever I see "MAU", I can tell there's going to be some bullshit posted.

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Discussing MAUs has always been a waste of time. These are far more vague than subscriptions ever were and we don't even know which game they're really tied to. Doesn't matter if it's WoW vs FF14, Classic vs Retail or general "proof" that WoW is dead. Plus, let's not forget that we have no idea about FF player count either - they never reported those and I only recall some "X million accounts created" milestone, which was conveniently "misunderstood" as sub count... and it was long time ago anyway. Or their more recent "we ran out of digital codes", which seems more like a marketing gimmick to me.

    I have my issues with the game (and maybe some ideas from FF that I'd like to see here... like plot that isn't garbage or housing or crafting), but whenever I see "MAU", I can tell there's going to be some bullshit posted.
    I'm not using it as a comparison to ff or any other game, I'm using it to show a steady decline over Blizzards products, and that cannot be debated. Interesting that it is accepted by the shareholders and governing bodies, but not acceptable to "fans". I would love to go through post histories and see how many have used it previously to show how well classic did, or how well x product is doing, but then reject it as a measure when used to show a steady decline.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssria View Post
    I'm the only guy that has a clue as to what's wrong with the game and how it can be fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Size doesn't matter

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    I'm not using it as a comparison to ff or any other game, I'm using it to show a steady decline over Blizzards products, and that cannot be debated. Interesting that it is accepted by the shareholders and governing bodies, but not acceptable to "fans". I would love to go through post histories and see how many have used it previously to show how well classic did, or how well x product is doing, but then reject it as a measure when used to show a steady decline.
    Shareholders aren't making shitty internet arguments about how {x feature} is ruining the game. Why even bring that up? It has absolutely zero relevance to this discussion.
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Yeah, there definitely isn't boosting in FFXIV.



    Oh, and it's not like you can literally spend $25 to skip an entire fucking game's worth of content. But no, WoW token BAD; FFXIV GOOD!

    - - - Updated - - -



    The dude you were replying to clearly mentioned WoW. If anybody's trying to move goal posts, it's you.
    There will always be people trying to cheat but there is a massive difference between selling players the gold and refusing to police your lfg system at all and having half a dozen bots...

    As for the story quest skip. It's not something that bothers me they give you a buff to be invincible during them. It's a hell of a lot better then server transfers.

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