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  1. #101
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    People who point out the negatives fix things. Those who offer praise for token gestures cheapen it. We give out praise to easily these days and offer criticism to rarely.
    Most of what passes for criticism here is useless crap. So too a lot of the vapid, empty praise.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  2. #102
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    In the Shadows
    Quote Originally Posted by Imurbandaid View Post
    Sure, but new management needs to start somewhere.
    That doesn't warrant my instant gratitude for something that should've been that way since the start.
    Even if this is an effect of a change in leadership they will inherit my skeptisism and distrust from the old leadership.

    If they keep this up over the course of a number of major patches and actually deal with widespread feedback when they get it the first time, then I will reconsider my stance. Not sooner.

    Blizzard has something to prove. And I don't owe them anything.
    Last edited by Evolixe; 2021-08-30 at 12:57 AM.

  3. #103
    Herald of the Titans Klingers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Parliament of the Daleks
    The main reason for the negative response is a general sentiment from the community along the lines of "if you can do this now, why the fuck couldn't this have been done a year ago for any reason other than hubris and wilful stupidity?"

    Active disrespect of people's time leads to resentment. It's fairly understandable.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Most of what passes for criticism here is useless crap. So too a lot of the vapid, empty praise.
    The best kind of enlightened centrism is to not actually have a set of opinions, beliefs, or values.

    Sometimes people are being legitimate when they complain. Not everyone that has a pulse is somehow lesser than people who simply aren't invested. And if you aren't, you don't get to be on a pedestal about it.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Imurbandaid View Post
    Sure, but new management needs to start somewhere.
    they would remove ion as game dev to "start", 9.15 changes are "the house is on fire! DO SOMETHING!"

  6. #106
    Bloodsail Admiral froschhure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Lighthalzen, the City-State of Prosperity
    Quote Originally Posted by Imurbandaid View Post
    Tell me how I had 1 KSM last season and didn't play alts, and that in a few weeks this season I have 3 KSM and 5 toons total over 230 ilvl. Seems really alt unfriendly. Yes I have a full time job, yes I have a fiance and kid, yes I go to the gym 5 days a week and even play some LoL too (since you know the "no lifer" is coming). Literally trolling prolly if youre claiming BfA was more alt friendly then stating exact parallels as to why your complaints about SL aren't even real.
    play bfa, your subcontext does not make no arguments better
    love WoWarcraft

  7. #107
    The Lightbringer Archmage Alodi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Halls Of The Guardian
    Because it's happening with every single system they put out, looks almost intentional.

  8. #108
    God, I love the "NOOO THEY'RE JUST IRRATIONAL HATERS!!!!" copium. Not like at least 80% of the first 2-3 pages is posts explaining it loud and clear.

  9. #109
    Too little, too late.

    Problems that have been festering for years and the slew of new problems introduced due to all the bogus systems on top of systems every expansion were its downfall. The PR disaster that has ensued is just expediting it, sadly.

    I don't believe people want to see little trickling olive branches and scraps of "changes" after everything. I think they want to see large sweeping changes or reverting to prior expansions' ways that were widely accepted as better. Until then? Pound sand, Bli$$ard
    You think you don't, but you do

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    God, I love the "NOOO THEY'RE JUST IRRATIONAL HATERS!!!!" copium. Not like at least 80% of the first 2-3 pages is posts explaining it loud and clear.
    Nope. If we call everyone that complains a whiner and everyone that defends a drone without understanding the position of either, it just means we're super smart and in no way having the backbone of a chocolate éclair.

    Bonus points for a sig that's about criticizing people for being inflammatory towards alternate belief systems while simultaneously rejecting literally everyone's.

  11. #111
    It's a normal response for customers that have been burned one too many times. It also did not help in the least that they went ahead and tried to justify their descision with some nebulous lore bullshit that was just a blatant lie. For many people they have already burned through all the customer goodwill that they had accumulated, getting some of that back will take alot more than begrudgingly doing changes we've been asking for from the beginning. The first chance at real redemption for them will be in 10.0.
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  12. #112
    I’m not gonna pay blizz on the back for making changes that they had feedback on for over a year

    ESPECIALLY when they have the nerve to say “millions of players experienced shadowlands in their favorite covenant and they couldn’t have without our restrictions” knowing that restrictions added nothing and I mean nothing to the gameplay experience

    The intro skip has been in the beginning of the expansion since WoD but it takes a year for shadowlands to get it. They knew conduit energy was a garbage system but they did nothing about it. They had a crappy game and defended these choices tooth and nail before deciding to come out with a salty non apology to tell us “hey guys we are going to listen to you. We aren’t saying we were wrong but you were right”

    They launched a broken game and said “the ripcord doesn’t exist because it would require redoing multiple systems from the ground up” to justify being stubborn jackasses

    The changes aren’t the result of new management but it is the result of them being forced to make the game for the players because they ignored them for a year

    The systems designer lead is an asshole and I’m so glad he got shit on Twitter and is now being forced to scrap the garbage he created

    - - - Updated - - -

    It’s the same shit from BfA and it’s getting old

    They keep “learning” the same damn lesson every expansion and the players are the ones that have to deal with it because it’s obvious from that post they don’t play the damn game

  13. #113
    Mechagnome Mr. Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    The Peanut Gallery
    This is just the same thing they've been doing since Legion. They introduce a system, double-down on it in the face of overwhelming criticism, and then eventually walk it back after enough people unsubscribe. People aren't positive because this isn't a change, it's literally just more of the same.

    When 10.0 rolls around, if they don't include predatory game systems, or God forbid, actually listen to the feedback that people post on the Beta feedback forums, then we can say it's positive change.

  14. #114
    the changes may be positive, but a lot of it isn't for various reasons. some being that people were complaining about it about a year and a half ago, blizzard doesn't listen to feedback until at least halfway through an expac instead of when it matters most, and things being time gated for no reason (see the new "easier" covenant swapping that actually requires that character to have max renown which means that character STILL has to grind renown before they can swap without hassle).

    there are plenty of reasons to still be mad.

  15. #115
    Because the anti blizzard circle jerking gives more upvotes.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Theres probably a good case for actually doing reserach about why so many people gotta shit on Blizzard & wow constantly for literally anything. Not even when Blizzard announce good stuff people are happy. its just constantly dumping on the game no matter what.

    I dont think Blizzard can announce ANYTHING without getting major shit thrown at them. People will go "OH YEAH sure. Why didnt you do this 3 years ago huhuhu?? SHIT GAME LUL"
    5 minutes of study can tell why people shit on the game
    It is both too hard and too easy at the same time
    both too grindy and nothing to do at the same time
    Too elitist/hardcore and casual at the same time
    You can fly or can't fly is both a problem for people at the same time
    You can pug or you have to be with guilds at the same time
    M+ exists but also M+ doesn't reward enough at the same time
    Mythic Exists or Lower difficulties exist at the same time.

    Simply put no matter what people gonna bitch because they want polar opposites in the same game and every single one of those people have to be equally catered to otherwise you fail as a business and a game designer.

  17. #117
    Titan Sorrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Anchorage Alaska
    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    Think it like they are renting you a car.

    The beta
    They have a pictures of the car and they offer you a test drive. You notice that steering is wonky, brakes dont work, seats are dirty and wind shield has a crack. You tell these problems and they promise to fix them. You trust them because they gave you a good deal once.

    The 9.0
    The day comes and they deliver the car to your house. Only thing they have done is they have cleaned the seats. You tell them again of the problems you have with the car and they say they will look into it in the future. You still drive a dangerous and crap car.

    The 9.1
    The car goes to the rental place mechanic and comes back and they say they fixed the steering. You go for a spin and notice that its bit better but still not as it should be. You give feedback again.

    The 9.1.5
    The car goes to the mechanic again and they say they will fix the crack in the wind shield. The steering is still not properly fixed and the brakes are still not working.

    You decide to leave the car in the bad part of town with keys in the ignition and buy a bicycle.

    The car rental asking why you are no longer renting from them.
    I actually think it is even worse in that the alpha/beta showed a car with some issues but none too bad(and since a demo model kinda expected) but oromised not only the car that works pretty well but extras as well.

    Theeen they give you something worse then the demo model

    I am btw referring to alpha/beta torghast everyone praised and todays choreghast

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Imurbandaid View Post
    Everyone is complaining its some desperate attempt to grab players back that should have been in game from the start. People still flaming blizz and the new systems coming in 9.1.5.

    New management is taking over and immediately making positive changes, why is this a bad thing? This is a promising thing for the future.
    I've played more heavily than I would like to admit since TBC and this already was a more alt friendly/new player than other expansions (even more so than Legion and BfA were which seem to be the most similar comparisons to modern wow). Now I do admit I mainly M+ and can gear a toon to 230+ in about a week and already have 4 alts key logging, but as someone that mainly stays off the toxic forums and just enjoys the game I don't see much validation in the complaints besides, possibly, entering pvp as a new/alt player. Is this just an echo chamber for blizz bashing now?
    This is because the people who are unhappy are just that, unhappy and miserable and want to drag others down. This site needs to do a much better job of filtering out the people who just don't care about feedback or the game.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby451 View Post
    Because the anti blizzard circle jerking gives more upvotes.
    Or because when developers tell you they can’t make the changes
    Then say it’s your fault the game is crap
    Then after a year say the changes are possible and they are coming but the bad systems are why you had fun in the first place is garbage

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Well the major problem with Covenants was that cosmetics and abilities were locked to a single covenant. If you liked Venthyr cosmetics but had to play Necrolord because the ability was better .... well, you had to choose between ability and cosmetics. 9.1.5 changes this and it's great - now you can fullfil your Venthyr fantasy via transmog, pepe and mounts (only thing your are missing out is the access to the covenant hall) while also using your bis Covenant abilities for raid/dungeons/pvp. Or you could mix and match the different transmogs/mounts/backpieces which is huuuuge. I rather take this approach than beeing locked to a single covenant (without access to any player power) if you make them cosmetic only.
    Yeah, that's because Covenant content is so irrelevant, that nobody cares about it, while it should be major part of xpack's content.

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