Why the negative response to all the positive changes in 9.1.5

[Yarathir]

Wait how is stripping things out of the game and then selling them back to you a positive? that’s far worse then any thing blizzard has ever done with its shop.

What? They're not stripped from players that earned them and sold back to them.

The event for them happens, they're obtainable, then after the event ends, they're either brought back a few years later (as with the FFXV event that is returning in September) or they're put on the shop for people who missed out. Not ideal, but it beats them never being available ingame.

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Thanks for the response, Square Enix's marketing research team.

It doesn't really answer the question, though, since you're essentially saying "I like FFXIV therefore it's good but I dislike WoW therefore it's bad."

It does answer it. You just don't like the answer. Cope.

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And I'm pretty sure that "a lot" would actually mean a comparable number as in WoW. I somehow doubt their art team is so much more prolific than Blizzard's. Plus having more expansions means it's harder to create unique art.

Yeah, FFXIV definitely has fewer mounts. But it also doesn't exist for as long. One thing they really ought to do is some mount dye system, because while it's good that almost every new mount they release is unique (at least in the sense of not being a recolor) some people might really want to have said new mount in red, or green. Idk.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

What? They're not stripped from players that earned them and sold back to them.

The event for them happens, they're obtainable, then after the event ends, they're either brought back a few years later (as with the FFXV event that is returning in September) or they're put on the shop for people who missed out. Not ideal, but it beats them never being available ingame.

Not resold to players to have them but stripped as in no longer available and then sold to people who missed them, it's incredibly scummy thing to do with a shop and is a far heavier Negative then any thing wow does with it's shop.

[Yarathir]

Not resold to players to have them but stripped as in no longer available and then sold to people who missed them, it's incredibly scummy thing to do with a shop and is a far heavier Negative then any thing wow does with it's shop.

... allowing people to earn event items ingame, then when the event is no longer around or updated with other new rewards, putting the event items from before on the shop is worse than putting them in the shop to start with and never having them be available from ingame events?

[Zenfoldor]

I've not been following it. I would guess though, that if they fixed the game that quick, many would be bitter because they perhaps already knew how to fix the game, but weren't doing it because of reasons I can only speculate.

Sometimes when someone changes their mind and brings you greatly improved quality of life after a long time without it, and after the knee-jerk gratitude, one may ask what took them so long to come to the rescue if the fix was such a trivial matter for them.

[rrayy]

Subscription numbers say otherwise. Just cause YOU think it was ok doesn't change the fact that people have left the game in droves due to these tedious systems and unnecessary limitations. Not to mention that these systems place a massive penalty on those who like to play more than 1 spec, or play alts, both because you need to grind up legendaries (cause running the same trivial torghast runs in and out is so much fun!) and the fact that the covenant that is optimal for your main spec is garbage for your offspecs. And if they make changes to the covenants, flipping the balance, you have to start it all over again (believe I did about 40 torghast runs in a little over a day to sort that crap). Overall the covenant system is a complete and utter disaster in its current form.

And yes, people want it easier today than they did in 2004. The tedious grinds of old don't work in 2021, cause only a small part of the players want that. The popular games in 2021 are quick and convenient. You log on, do the stuff you enjoy, you log off. Most people aren't willing to spend half their week doing repetetive (boring) content they dislike, just to be able to actually do the content they enjoy doing, anymore. And Blizzard saying "we think this is the best for you" doesn't matter squat if the player disagrees and cba playing anymore.

People leave for all kinds of reasons. Projecting your opinion on others doesn't make your opinion fact.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

... allowing people to earn event items ingame, then when the event is no longer around or updated with other new rewards, putting the event items from before on the shop is worse than putting them in the shop to start with and never having them be available from ingame events?

Yes Taking tons of items out of the game so you can sell to people Suffering from FOMO is far worse then adding war less items to a shop.

If the shops were of comparable size it wouldn't be as bad but when its many many times the size of the wow one is far worse as it promo's them making items unavailable for a buck which the wow shop doesn't do.

[Yarathir]

Yes Taking tons of items out of the game so you can sell to people Suffering from FOMO is far worse then adding war less items to a shop.

If the shops were of comparable size it wouldn't be as bad but when its many many times the size of the wow one is far worse as it promo's them making items unavailable for a buck which the wow shop doesn't do.

If you say so.

Maybe if WoW updated their events more than once in a decade, their shop would be full of event items too. :^)

(Yes, I really just wanted to use your comment as a springboard for that remark about WoW events.)

[rrayy]

Because it's the same cycle it's always been.

- Blizz comes up with a terrible system idea players don't want.
- Players complain that not only do they not want it but upon beta testing it's also terribly boring/broken/OP/etc
- Blizz ignores the testers saying "the silent majority is with us on this."
- Terrible system releases and everyone hates it.
- Blizz rushes to band aid it in the .1 patch and then outright neuter it in .2
- Meeting about the next expansion to come up with the big new feature
- Return to the top

That isn't the cycle at all. The REAL cycle:

-Blizz comes up with new system
-Players whine because Blizzard won't give them everything right away.
-Blizzard rightly disregards feedback as it is nothing more than player entitlement talking
-System releases and a vocal minority claims everyone hates it meanwhile the majority doesn't care one way or the other
-Blzzard makes things easier for people to catch up after playing through once
-Players make bogus claims such as "players all left because x:" to claim they were right all along
-Return to the top

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If you say so.

Maybe if WoW updated their events more than once in a decade, their shop would be full of event items too. :^)

Id say there greedy enough they don't need to be taking idea's from greedier games so hopefully they won't find out that other games get away with even more milking then they do.

[rrayy]

The funny thing is that if they had this in at launch, it still would've forced every player to go through the system once. So you literally have no defense of the system, because their own correction to it addresses that exact issue. If you're going to try to defend it by claiming it took them a year to figure out that solution, that isn't going to look any better because it was one of the suggested solutions offered during beta.

But they didn't need to have in in at launch since you still have to go through the whole thing once. There was no point in putting it in until they reached the end, And No I am not going to claim they took a year to get this as a solution because it wasn't a solution to begin with. It was something they kept in mind from day one as as an option to make getting to max easier later in the expansion to make things easier as they have done the past several expansions.

The fact that you are completely spinning and twisting their words to fit your narrative while massively projecting your opinion when in reality it was nothing more than PR means this discussion needs to go no further.

[PenguinChan]

Because as most people that have voiced the negative sentiments pointed out, that this has become the MO of the devs since Legion.

(1) Introduce a system with obvious flaws / drawbacks
(2) Disagree with feedback given during Beta
(3) Reiterate after Launch that you disagree with it
(4) Implement the suggested changes months after launch

People want functional systems with .0, not .3, .2 or even .1.5.

I called this out in Legion when it launched. The obvious fixes and changes to make the systems not suck / pull out so much time are done on purpose. Anyone who doesn't see this (Many do now, unlike back then) are finding they don't fix things because it was intentional. Legion had it glaringly obvious with the time gated mission, Suramar time gates (But this wasn't bad when it isn't weeks of waiting, just days playing and doing things). The Legiondaries until last patch, the artifact weapons being a pain in the ass until later...

This keeps happening, it happened with the necklace and it's happening now. I don't like it and it's damn annoying.

[Empower]

Care to expand on why you're fine with FFXIV, a game with 600+ fucking items on its cash shop, but dislike Blizzard because they put mounts on theirs?

Honestly because they are straight forward with the playerbase and don't promote pay to win.

There was never some bullshit about hiring special artists to make cash shop items like blizzard nor was their lying about using sales to fund professional players.

It's the amount of sleaze and bold face lying that has me annoyed with blizzard that and their utter embracing of boosting as a business model.

[mst3kfan]

I am not sure why would anyone respond in such a manner. But yeah ok you feel switching covenants is a “marathon” and you tell that to a guy who plays WoW since 2004. Poetry

Switching Covenants isn't the marathon. You clearly did not read, or understand what was being said. Playing the MMO is. Properly done, a Covenant swap can be done within 24 hrs (Less even). I have done it multiple times. You won't, but instead of blatantly misquoting someone you should probably work toward being less ignorant.

[rrayy]

I'm "bitter and angry" because they've managed to fuck it up, somehow, and gate every QoL change behind a current grind.

Talk about missing the fucking point. What's here for would be resubbers?

" Come back and have cool shit after you finish the shit that made you quit in the first place"

Renown will take you like an hour to max. And how dare they make you play the game before giving it to you.The level of player entitlement here is off the charts.

[Empower]

Renown will take you like an hour to max. And how dare they make you play the game before giving it to you.The level of player entitlement here is off the charts.

I have 8 million gold from carries I will give it to you if you steam capping renowned in a hour from 0.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

That isn't the cycle at all. The REAL cycle:

-Blizz comes up with new system
-Players whine because Blizzard won't give them everything right away.
-Blizzard rightly disregards feedback as it is nothing more than player entitlement talking
-System releases and a vocal minority claims everyone hates it meanwhile the majority doesn't care one way or the other
-Blzzard makes things easier for people to catch up after playing through once
-Players make bogus claims such as "players all left because x:" to claim they were right all along
-Return to the top

And it's happened so many times you honestly think you're in the majority? Classic is outperforming Retail at this point, it's time to admit that "I Like Timegating" is the minority.

[Florena]

I called this out in Legion when it launched. The obvious fixes and changes to make the systems not suck / pull out so much time are done on purpose. Anyone who doesn't see this (Many do now, unlike back then) are finding they don't fix things because it was intentional. Legion had it glaringly obvious with the time gated mission, Suramar time gates (But this wasn't bad when it isn't weeks of waiting, just days playing and doing things). The Legiondaries until last patch, the artifact weapons being a pain in the ass until later...

This keeps happening, it happened with the necklace and it's happening now. I don't like it and it's damn annoying.

Yeah. The real test if there's a long term change for the better will come down the road. in 9.2 or 9.3 or 10.0 or whenever systems are put into test that are deeply flawed, receive consistent negative feedback, and the systems are changed BEFORE going live. And in general what they do with a flesh slate in 10.0 as a new expansion.

[solidwing]

Many listened to those advices and dont need pathethic "thanks" from white knight.

I'm no white knight and you're probabaly a pinko I bet, all you people calling for changes this and that bla bla bla crying about systems you can't get used to, you don't develop the game, the devs at blizzard know what they are doing, everyone just cries so much that they eventually give in, fuck off

[Echo of Soul]

Yeah. The real test if there's a long term change for the better will come down the road. in 9.2 or 9.3 or 10.0 or whenever systems are put into test that are deeply flawed, receive consistent negative feedback, and the systems are changed BEFORE going live. And in general what they do with a flesh slate in 10.0 as a new expansion.

If they add in a bunch of anti player systems in 10.0 beta and don't fix/remove them before the game goes live I think that most people have been burned one time too many to not accept it anymore and pass on the game.

[minteK917]

I'm no white knight and you're probabaly a pinko I bet, all you people calling for changes this and that bla bla bla crying about systems you can't get used to, you don't develop the game, the devs at blizzard know what they are doing, everyone just cries so much that they eventually give in, fuck off

They give in because they start making less money, the opposite of they know what they are doing lmao.