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  1. #1

    Cold Take: M+ Dungeons Are Too Long

    M+ runs take too long. The average M+ run shouldn't be tuned around a 40-45 minute experience, but rather 25-30 minute one.

    I don't want to do anything with other strangers for more than 30 minutes at a time. It also would make the feeling of reward increase with each successive dungeon run because you didn't just feel like you wasted 45 minutes of your time just to go up 1/10 for your weekly Vault "quest".

    Another huge upside would be that since the dungeons would be getting shorter, they could get away with smaller dungeons with less art assets in general, and so you could have a higher amount of dungeons in the game. Instead of 8, we could launch with 12 and get more during patches.

    Just do it man. M+ blows.

  2. #2
    It’s what you get when you pug
    It’s as long as lfr

  3. #3
    Looking at my timed keys, most M+ dungeons are around 35 minutes long to complete, with DoS skirting 40, HoA being 30 and Mists being in the high 20s. If your dungeon takes you 45 minutes you failed the timer literally everywhere.
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  4. #4
    I did a really screwed up really bad M+ and it was an hour long. That's pretty damned short.

    I'm doing them in around 30-40 minutes - the key here is level appropriate, I'm not going to do 20s the same way I'm not going to do Mythic raids.

    Means getting 3 options on your M+ line is about the same time investment as getting 3 options on your raid line.

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  5. #5
    The way you worded this is kind of arrogant, “I don’t want to run with strangers for more than thirty minutes.” Ok your majesty.

    I wouldn’t mind seeing DoS brought in a bit but if you’re advocating dungeons being 25 minutes long it loses some of the tactics with hero/bl and would also have effects on trying to +2 a chest. The dungeons would basically all have to be 3, maybe four bosses and I think they’d lose their flavor.

    I would like a few extra dungeons but I don’t think shortening the size would free up resources quite as much as you think.
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  6. #6
    Tbh the pace is a little slow. I think id prefer a faster legion like playstyle.

    Early legion where one farmed the 3chests was actually a pretty fun due to the high pace we soared thru the dungeon. Ofc, that may be me only remembering hundreds of maw of souls, black rook hold was another deal. But im ok with variety.

    Infact, variety is the best possible outcome. Some slow 30-60min dungs, some fast 15-20min dungs. Let the experience be varied! The bigger tha variation in the game, the less montome it becomes.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  7. #7
    Holy moly your dungeon rating must be poopy son!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sevryn View Post
    Holy moly your dungeon rating must be poopy son!
    or he is pushing

    a)really high keys
    b)pushing keys at appropiate itlv

    whih means he barely makes timer.

    i dont doubt that 250 + people who spam +15s in full 250+ teams just for GV do it very very fast

  9. #9
    being aoe capped + all the forced rp in the dungeon makes it insanely annoying

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    Tbh the pace is a little slow. I think id prefer a faster legion like playstyle.
    Some slow 30-60min dungs, some fast 15-20min dungs. Let the experience be varied!
    90% of people would spam the fast ones, making the experience far less varied. I mean Maw of Souls was run much more than Neltharion's Lair or, God Forbid, Cathedral of Eternal Night. Especially right at the beginning when farming Artifact Power was a thing.
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  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Amaterasu65's Avatar
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    M+ are long only if you add the time it takes to form your key (unless you are the tank).

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    M+ runs take too long. The average M+ run shouldn't be tuned around a 40-45 minute experience, but rather 25-30 minute one.

    I don't want to do anything with other strangers for more than 30 minutes at a time. It also would make the feeling of reward increase with each successive dungeon run because you didn't just feel like you wasted 45 minutes of your time just to go up 1/10 for your weekly Vault "quest".

    Another huge upside would be that since the dungeons would be getting shorter, they could get away with smaller dungeons with less art assets in general, and so you could have a higher amount of dungeons in the game. Instead of 8, we could launch with 12 and get more during patches.

    Just do it man. M+ blows.
    If you run it in 25 minutes with strangers you will be done in 15 with guildies.

    Don't play with srangers if you don't want to play with strangers.... why are you torturing yourself like that? Find guild or a community

  13. #13
    My shortest timed run was a Mists 17 with 00:23:2x

    My longest timed run was a DoS19 with 00:42:5x
    My longest untimed run was a ToP 18 with 00:45:0x

    Average across every dungeon: 30:75

  14. #14
    It's a no problem for me(pugged like 90% of my >15+ keys).

    But I do agree that some dungeons are in fact longer than others. I'd like to see more often HoA and MotS types of the dungeon. After getting every possible BIS M+ drop I am just farming these for the weekly vault(or help my guildies).

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    None of my runs exceeds 40 min really (apart maybe from DoS). If it takes you this long, then your group is struggling.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  16. #16
    It would be sorta cool if they added a new mode. Boss runs. You chose a boss and you had to rush to that boss the fastest you could, also some mandatory trash groups you had to kill up to that boss

  17. #17
    Legion gets a lot of ignorant hate, but it's one of the top 3 expansion they have ever made. M+ was pretty flawless in Legion, I could sit here and grind 3min Maw of soul runs and Court of stars, all day and never get bored, but I have to force myself to step into a dungeon in Shadowlands. I mean the longest Dng in legion was what...Halls of valor? and even that was under 30minutes.
    But the reason Shadowland dngs/mythics take longer is because of the AOE cap, you can no longer just Eyebeam/BF/BS etc everything down in mass pulls. In BFA you could pull the entire zone and just blow them up. The cap is probably the dumbest thing they've done this expansion from a quality of life perspective for mythic+ and it's a long list.

    Blizzard just loves trash, it's so pointless. Trash used to have purpose, to make a zone/instance/raid feel alive, but now it's just there to slow you down with unneeded mechanics. Trash is harder than bosses these days and it should always be the other way around.
    Last edited by OokOok; 2021-08-30 at 10:26 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    90% of people would spam the fast ones, making the experience far less varied. I mean Maw of Souls was run much more than Neltharion's Lair or, God Forbid, Cathedral of Eternal Night. Especially right at the beginning when farming Artifact Power was a thing.
    thats ok.

    I far prefer a set of very varied and different dungs over a set of very similar dungeons. Everything mustn't be equal, players can have favorites.

    Ppl may not have played BRD the most in vanilla, but most ppl remembers it fondly for the adventure it was.
    Last edited by Aphrel; 2021-08-30 at 11:44 AM.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    I don't want to do anything with other strangers for more than 30 minutes at a time.
    Then why the fug are you playing an MMORPG

    lmao

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Then why the fug are you playing an MMORPG

    lmao
    Because at least WoW pretends to be perfectly soloable until you realize you have to play with strangers to have progress.

    Arpgs are far better structured.

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