Thread: BiS Spreadsheet

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  1. #1

    BiS Spreadsheet

    Hi guys,

    maybe someone knows if something like this exists anywhere. We will be using a loot council for phase 2.

    So we have to know every BiS for every class/spec. And while wowhead has them, they are spread over multiple different sites.

    Maybe somone allready created an excle Spreadsheet with all the informations?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Hi guys,

    maybe someone knows if something like this exists anywhere. We will be using a loot council for phase 2.

    So we have to know every BiS for every class/spec. And while wowhead has them, they are spread over multiple different sites.

    Maybe somone allready created an excle Spreadsheet with all the informations?

    Thanks!
    If "optimal" loot distribution matters to you, and your members do not know their BiS pieces, you have got a problem.

  3. #3
    You could probably get them from respective class discord.
    And someone has probably done a spreadsheet but never seen one.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    If "optimal" loot distribution matters to you, and your members do not know their BiS pieces, you have got a problem.
    Sigh.... of course.

    It is good to know who profits the most from certain loot. Then they can roll.

    And yes we have a few people in the raid who are not that keen on being informed. We keep them anyway because we like them. Sorry about that.

    We also provide a list where everyone can enter what the like from each boss. But we still have to double check it.

  5. #5
    Don’t trust every BiS list you find out there, most are just looking at ilvl rather than stats and set bonuses, majority of clothies for example will still have their crafted gear as BiS until MH/BT. There are some that are even head scratchers in their own right, prot warr for example in P2 has their defense rating 30 under recommendation and is geared out with some leather and dps rings/cloak/neck

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by un_known View Post
    Don’t trust every BiS list you find out there, most are just looking at ilvl rather than stats and set bonuses, majority of clothies for example will still have their crafted gear as BiS until MH/BT. There are some that are even head scratchers in their own right, prot warr for example in P2 has their defense rating 30 under recommendation and is geared out with some leather and dps rings/cloak/neck
    I know^^

    The generall stuff is quite clear and nearly every caster has the cloth sets anyway. But a list where you can see it in one glance is still quite handy for loot distribution when the raid is still running.
    Wowhead has the crafted gear in their bis list btw.

    This is just because i am to lazy to make it myself.
    Probably have to do it anyway.^^

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Sigh.... of course.

    It is good to know who profits the most from certain loot. Then they can roll.

    And yes we have a few people in the raid who are not that keen on being informed. We keep them anyway because we like them. Sorry about that.

    We also provide a list where everyone can enter what the like from each boss. But we still have to double check it.
    Don't get overly defensive. I am not attacking you. It is just my opinion, that in more casual guilds such loot systems often do more harm than good, and I'd rather roll than trying to explain to a guy who has no clue about the game why he can only get DST in 5 months.

  8. #8
    The wowhead guides written by veramos are accurate for hunters. Theres a few different bis lists tho. The 2 main ones are 6% hit lists with the only difference being dw or 2h. Dw slightly better woth weight stones and no weaving. 2h a significantly higher dps if weaving but majority of hunters don't weave. The dw options also has ant 1.5% more hit.

    Those lists assume a moonkin in raid with imp faerie fire for 3% hit. You'd have a slightly dif list if not running moonkin.
    Some people think rape threats are acceptable, smh.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The same reason why you are calling a "rape threat" online from a complete stranger as harassment? Why wouldn't you shrug that off when it has 0% chance of actually happening?

  9. #9
    https://wowtbc.gg/bis-list/balance-druid/

    The site is not 100% accurate for every spec, but should give you a general picture.
    You kinda have to piece information together from Icyveins, Wowhead and wowtbc, as most class discord usually recommend one of those.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    Don't get overly defensive. I am not attacking you. It is just my opinion, that in more casual guilds such loot systems often do more harm than good, and I'd rather roll than trying to explain to a guy who has no clue about the game why he can only get DST in 5 months.
    Sorry, Just expected your answer^^

    Ah they are lazy in informing themselves but they are good players and we cleared everything rather early (and fast).

    I don't mind looking this up for them. They do other stuff for me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    https://wowtbc.gg/bis-list/balance-druid/

    The site is not 100% accurate for every spec, but should give you a general picture.
    You kinda have to piece information together from Icyveins, Wowhead and wowtbc, as most class discord usually recommend one of those.
    Thank you very much. This is quite good actually. Easier to navigate than wowhead.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    I know^^

    The generall stuff is quite clear and nearly every caster has the cloth sets anyway. But a list where you can see it in one glance is still quite handy for loot distribution when the raid is still running.
    Wowhead has the crafted gear in their bis list btw.

    This is just because i am to lazy to make it myself.
    Probably have to do it anyway.^^
    There is more then just what is best for each class. You would also have to prioritize the order in which everyone get their stuff if you want to optimize your raid drops.

    For example, tier set bonuses can be very good for some, and useless for other classes. Even though a tier piece might be a BiS for someone, it may benefit someone else more to get the set bonus, and give the 2nd bis for the class that won't really benefit from it.

    Another example is spellpower swords. While mage and warlock are equally after them, they can also use daggers and staves, while your protection paladin has very little options (all maces are healing).

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikah View Post
    There is more then just what is best for each class. You would also have to prioritize the order in which everyone get their stuff if you want to optimize your raid drops.

    For example, tier set bonuses can be very good for some, and useless for other classes. Even though a tier piece might be a BiS for someone, it may benefit someone else more to get the set bonus, and give the 2nd bis for the class that won't really benefit from it.

    Another example is spellpower swords. While mage and warlock are equally after them, they can also use daggers and staves, while your protection paladin has very little options (all maces are healing).
    Yes i know^^

    Thank you for your advice but i am aware of all of that.

    The BiS list is not the only criteria we distribute loot with. But it still has a place.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Yes i know^^

    Thank you for your advice but i am aware of all of that.

    The BiS list is not the only criteria we distribute loot with. But it still has a place.
    I've also been using the icy veins BIS lists (they do Pre-BIS, T4 BIS and T5 BIS for most specs). Combined, I think these with Wowhead lists are pretty solid. However, I've not found them in a single place. Sounds like you have a sidequest to do.

  14. #14
    There is no agreed upon spreadsheet BIS for every spec. There are multiple spreadsheets for each class with different results posted in a number of cases, the gear you equip also largely depends on raid comp and the boss you're fighting, obviously not in a general sense but if you're optimising for BIS it only takes small changes to juggle several items around. Also have to consider that some BIS items (example DST) are harder to come by and they may have a large impact on the balance of stat weights.

    Nobody can agree on anything either. Someone compiled data from all the physical class sheets about DST to show which class got the most from it. Because Warriors and Rogues ranked considerably above Hunters in this example we saw Hunters revolting, down to people shit-talking and abusing the Hunter spreadsheet developer to people memeing about Rogues and Warriors and big fights breaking out, like children. The Classic community is just I'm sorry to say it but exactly as Asmongold describes "classic andys". Classic theorycrafting is laughable compared to retail.

    In T5 for some specs there are several directions one could go that result in overall the same result, and gearing based on some static "BIS" list is frankly dumb. If your guild doesn't have the knowledge of the game to intelligently and fairly hand gear out then don't do loot council. Basing your ideas on some arbitrary "BIS" lists is not the way to do it.
    I7 6700K : 16GB DDR4 3000 : GTX1070 : Firestudio : Naga : G27

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    There is no agreed upon spreadsheet BIS for every spec. There are multiple spreadsheets for each class with different results posted in a number of cases, the gear you equip also largely depends on raid comp and the boss you're fighting, obviously not in a general sense but if you're optimising for BIS it only takes small changes to juggle several items around. Also have to consider that some BIS items (example DST) are harder to come by and they may have a large impact on the balance of stat weights.

    Nobody can agree on anything either. Someone compiled data from all the physical class sheets about DST to show which class got the most from it. Because Warriors and Rogues ranked considerably above Hunters in this example we saw Hunters revolting, down to people shit-talking and abusing the Hunter spreadsheet developer to people memeing about Rogues and Warriors and big fights breaking out, like children. The Classic community is just I'm sorry to say it but exactly as Asmongold describes "classic andys". Classic theorycrafting is laughable compared to retail.

    In T5 for some specs there are several directions one could go that result in overall the same result, and gearing based on some static "BIS" list is frankly dumb. If your guild doesn't have the knowledge of the game to intelligently and fairly hand gear out then don't do loot council. Basing your ideas on some arbitrary "BIS" lists is not the way to do it.

    All gear is Hunter gear. Most hunters say so.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    There is no agreed upon spreadsheet BIS for every spec. There are multiple spreadsheets for each class with different results posted in a number of cases, the gear you equip also largely depends on raid comp and the boss you're fighting, obviously not in a general sense but if you're optimising for BIS it only takes small changes to juggle several items around. Also have to consider that some BIS items (example DST) are harder to come by and they may have a large impact on the balance of stat weights.

    Nobody can agree on anything either. Someone compiled data from all the physical class sheets about DST to show which class got the most from it. Because Warriors and Rogues ranked considerably above Hunters in this example we saw Hunters revolting, down to people shit-talking and abusing the Hunter spreadsheet developer to people memeing about Rogues and Warriors and big fights breaking out, like children. The Classic community is just I'm sorry to say it but exactly as Asmongold describes "classic andys". Classic theorycrafting is laughable compared to retail.

    In T5 for some specs there are several directions one could go that result in overall the same result, and gearing based on some static "BIS" list is frankly dumb. If your guild doesn't have the knowledge of the game to intelligently and fairly hand gear out then don't do loot council. Basing your ideas on some arbitrary "BIS" lists is not the way to do it.
    FFS.... where are people like you coming from?

    I allready told someone else that the BiS list is not the only thing we use but it is good to know in what direction to go and we still consider other factors.

    Stop thinking everyone is stupid dumb and whatever. BiS Lists have merrit. If you don't think so fine. But stop attacking people who use it. None of your buisness and no reason to attack and insult. I did not ask peoples opinion of Bis Lists or how to use them.

    Your last paragraph has to be one of the most arrogant responses i have ever got.

    If you habe nothing constructive to say don't say anythign at all...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    There is no agreed upon spreadsheet BIS for every spec. There are multiple spreadsheets for each class with different results posted in a number of cases, the gear you equip also largely depends on raid comp and the boss you're fighting, obviously not in a general sense but if you're optimising for BIS it only takes small changes to juggle several items around. Also have to consider that some BIS items (example DST) are harder to come by and they may have a large impact on the balance of stat weights.

    Nobody can agree on anything either. Someone compiled data from all the physical class sheets about DST to show which class got the most from it. Because Warriors and Rogues ranked considerably above Hunters in this example we saw Hunters revolting, down to people shit-talking and abusing the Hunter spreadsheet developer to people memeing about Rogues and Warriors and big fights breaking out, like children. The Classic community is just I'm sorry to say it but exactly as Asmongold describes "classic andys". Classic theorycrafting is laughable compared to retail.

    In T5 for some specs there are several directions one could go that result in overall the same result, and gearing based on some static "BIS" list is frankly dumb. If your guild doesn't have the knowledge of the game to intelligently and fairly hand gear out then don't do loot council. Basing your ideas on some arbitrary "BIS" lists is not the way to do it.
    The reason hunters don't like that meme dst sheet is because it ignores up time % which is a pretty big deal in t5 content. Also fuck warriors, and double fuck yellows lol
    Some people think rape threats are acceptable, smh.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The same reason why you are calling a "rape threat" online from a complete stranger as harassment? Why wouldn't you shrug that off when it has 0% chance of actually happening?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    FFS.... where are people like you coming from?

    I allready told someone else that the BiS list is not the only thing we use but it is good to know in what direction to go and we still consider other factors.

    Stop thinking everyone is stupid dumb and whatever. BiS Lists have merrit. If you don't think so fine. But stop attacking people who use it. None of your buisness and no reason to attack and insult. I did not ask peoples opinion of Bis Lists or how to use them.

    Your last paragraph has to be one of the most arrogant responses i have ever got.

    If you habe nothing constructive to say don't say anythign at all...
    How is what I said not constructive? You're asking for someone else to educate you on the game so you can fairly hand out loot to your guild, and without any doubt players in your guild are going to disagree with these lists, of which there are many that vary in opinion. If you need BIS lists provided to you by a third party then you're probably not best using loot council.

    I'm not saying people are dumb, I'm not saying you are dumb or anyone in your guild is dumb. I am saying it's dumb to use an arbitrary list that lacks context and that plenty of people will disagree with as the basis of your gearing decisions. And I've seen it so many times "officer X has this BIS list" and then ensues the argument among 3 people who know better because they play their class and have a better understanding.

    I'm not telling you how to run your guild, you do you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    The reason hunters don't like that meme dst sheet is because it ignores up time % which is a pretty big deal in t5 content. Also fuck warriors, and double fuck yellows lol
    The hunters I've heard talk about it all blame the hunter sheet developer for being bad and making a bad sheet because "obviously DST is best for hunters". In T4 hunters don't really get any better uptime (I mean the one fight where that might be relevant is Gruul and the rank 1 parse is a Warrior). In T5 hunters play second fiddle to Warlocks by and large, a bunch of situations where the pet is shit out of luck and mana concerns are bigger (will ease up later on with more gear).

    TBC theorycrafting in a nutshell, people are so horny for loot they want the theorycrafting skewed in their favour, when it's not they call it bad theorycrafting. But really if you compare all these TBC sheets to the complexity of simcraft on retail it is primitive.
    I7 6700K : 16GB DDR4 3000 : GTX1070 : Firestudio : Naga : G27

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    How is what I said not constructive? You're asking for someone else to educate you on the game so you can fairly hand out loot to your guild, and without any doubt players in your guild are going to disagree with these lists, of which there are many that vary in opinion. If you need BIS lists provided to you by a third party then you're probably not best using loot council.

    I'm not saying people are dumb, I'm not saying you are dumb or anyone in your guild is dumb. I am saying it's dumb to use an arbitrary list that lacks context and that plenty of people will disagree with as the basis of your gearing decisions. And I've seen it so many times "officer X has this BIS list" and then ensues the argument among 3 people who know better because they play their class and have a better understanding.

    I'm not telling you how to run your guild, you do you.



    The hunters I've heard talk about it all blame the hunter sheet developer for being bad and making a bad sheet because "obviously DST is best for hunters". In T4 hunters don't really get any better uptime (I mean the one fight where that might be relevant is Gruul and the rank 1 parse is a Warrior). In T5 hunters play second fiddle to Warlocks by and large, a bunch of situations where the pet is shit out of luck and mana concerns are bigger (will ease up later on with more gear).

    TBC theorycrafting in a nutshell, people are so horny for loot they want the theorycrafting skewed in their favour, when it's not they call it bad theorycrafting. But really if you compare all these TBC sheets to the complexity of simcraft on retail it is primitive.
    No one cares abt retail theory crafting because they aren't playing retail. The hunter sim is extremely accurate. You can check any of the settings and the creator is always available to talk to. The only reason it's a higher delta for rogues and warriors is because of the added resource generation they get from it. With uptime added into the equation it mostly evens out woth hunters potentially on top for actual dps (not delta) gained. Either way its not replaced by hunters and the alternatives are not good. Unlike rogue class trinkets. And warlocks are irrelevant because they dont use DST
    Some people think rape threats are acceptable, smh.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The same reason why you are calling a "rape threat" online from a complete stranger as harassment? Why wouldn't you shrug that off when it has 0% chance of actually happening?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    How is what I said not constructive? You're asking for someone else to educate you on the game so you can fairly hand out loot to your guild, and without any doubt players in your guild are going to disagree with these lists, of which there are many that vary in opinion. If you need BIS lists provided to you by a third party then you're probably not best using loot council.

    I'm not saying people are dumb, I'm not saying you are dumb or anyone in your guild is dumb. I am saying it's dumb to use an arbitrary list that lacks context and that plenty of people will disagree with as the basis of your gearing decisions. And I've seen it so many times "officer X has this BIS list" and then ensues the argument among 3 people who know better because they play their class and have a better understanding.

    I'm not telling you how to run your guild, you do you.



    The hunters I've heard talk about it all blame the hunter sheet developer for being bad and making a bad sheet because "obviously DST is best for hunters". In T4 hunters don't really get any better uptime (I mean the one fight where that might be relevant is Gruul and the rank 1 parse is a Warrior). In T5 hunters play second fiddle to Warlocks by and large, a bunch of situations where the pet is shit out of luck and mana concerns are bigger (will ease up later on with more gear).

    TBC theorycrafting in a nutshell, people are so horny for loot they want the theorycrafting skewed in their favour, when it's not they call it bad theorycrafting. But really if you compare all these TBC sheets to the complexity of simcraft on retail it is primitive.
    No i did not. I asked if a list exists in one spreadsheet. Nothing else.

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