Do you think Alleria, Vereesa and elves like Valeera are traitors to Quel'Thalas?

[OwenBurton]

Some people believe Alleria Windrunner is a traitor to her people - to her homeland and her former order, the Farstriders, by siding with the Alliance over her own sister, her old friends Lor'themar and Halduron, and the majority of Silvermoon's people.

I was just wondering, as some blood elf NPCs seem to view the high elves negatively, with Rommath mistrusting Alleria when she returns, and Lor'themar calling for "those traitors" to be eliminated, when he saw Alleria and her void elves at Lordaeron. Do most blood elves view them that way? Do they really hate Alleria and Vereesa? And about Valeera Sanguinar, Anduin's personal spy - ostensibly "independent" though she assisted the Alliance multiple times at Theramore, the Undercity, Durotar, etc.? Would most Alliance players be happy, if for example, an independent human male began fighting for the Horde, or if a large plurality of night elves and dwarves, for example, abandoned their people for the other side? Especially during a global all-out war between two superpowers, a situation where they might help lead an attack against Quel'Thalas eventually?

I mean, in real life...would they not at least be "defectors" - like those who switched sides during the Cold War? But still regarded as legitimate traitors to their birthplaces and their peoples?

What do you think about these characters? Are they "traitors" to Quel'Thalas, and the blood elves? How does the average blood elf regard Alleria and Vereesa, and their followers - do they have any positive feelings lingering for them, or are they basically enemies? I am really interested for example, how exactly elves like Halduron and Liadrin regard Alleria, as she was once their famous hero in the Second War; the Farstriders even risked everything to try to rescue her from Niskara. Or elves like Valeera who fight for the Alliance, in practice, even if she does not technically consider herself part of their ranks?

[Rustov]

No more than the entire Blood Elf faction are traitors to the alliance.

[Clone]

I wouldn't go as far as calling them traitors, but Alleria and Verresa did turn their back on their people.

[Vaedan]

I don't think high elves deserve the label traitors in fact for being part of the Alliance. At the time of their exile, blood elves were still neutral nation and were not part of the Horde. The exile was because high elves refused to siphon mana out of living beings and called for maintaining old ways and not resort to dangerous measures. For that reason, they were kicked out of their homeland and were left for their own devices. It's not surprising these exiles reached out for old allies for aid. It was after exile of high elves that blood elves joined the Horde, so in fact, it's high elves who could consider blood elves traitors for joining the Horde.

Void elves are different story. They went from Horde to the Alliance, so yes, they can be regarded as traitors for some, but they did not have much more options either.

[Clone]

No more than the entire Blood Elf faction are traitors to the alliance.

An alliance they haven't been a member of for about 2 decades since WC2.

[Valandale]

They're traitors to Red Silvermoon but Patriots of Blue Silvermoon. If Blizzard bothered to look into how the Thalassian divide worked properly we'd probably have the government and de jure/de facto rule of the Sin'dorei and a government in exile of the Quel'dorei Traditionalists. It's kind of a but not really White Russia/Red Russia - Red China/ Taiwan situation. There wasn't a revolution for Quel' Thalas but total collapse of the nation and one faction won out and took control and the others went into exile. There's no canon claimant to the throne of Quel'thalas and they keep the regent going for some reason instead of just reinstating the Convocation like they probably should have.

The Silver Covenant are the White Russians, KMT who have no authority over the homeland but they have claim to return even if it's flimsy but if ever they got strong enough backing or the support of the people they could return. If it ends like Russia's divide did, the current government of Silvermoon may collapse and the Convocation could be remade and all the Thalassian elves could join to form a grand governing coalition.

But this is Warcraft there is no nuance, and the Regent's rule will continue until the writers actually remember the thalassian storyline that got dropped in TBC and has only gotten side mentions at best since.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

They're not traitors to their people and nation, they are dissidents and political and ideological opponents to Lorth'emar, Rommath and the rest of Silvermoon current government over what path their people should have and which should be their methods and allies.

[Varodoc]

The entire Blood elven species are traitors for siding against the lawful, rightful, chosen by the law Warchief Garrosh.

They have no rights to mock Alleria or Vereesa for "treason" when they themselves are traitors.

[Tanaria]

I don't think they are traitors - but they just don't see the way the Blood Elves defend Quel'Thalas, as their way of defending it.

Veleera is a known double agent though. She will work with Lor'themar and the Horde, if it benefits the common cause. She just doesn't feel affiliated to Silvermoon, which is fine. Valeera is a really good Rogue character and she behaves both like an Elf and like a Rogue.

Alleria wants to win Lor'themar over by having him join the Alliance. He's already tried that and now he isn't interested. I think Alleria needs to take the time to learn what the Sin'dorei people have gone through and why they have made those decisions.

Vereesa is a murderer and the nerve of her to expect the Sin'dorei should forgive her and the Alliance is beyond belief. At least Alleria is reasonable and perhaps more likely to understand the Sin'dorei position.

- - - Updated - - -

The entire Blood elven species are traitors for siding against the lawful, rightful, chosen by the law Warchief Garrosh.

They have no rights to mock Alleria or Vereesa for "treason" when they themselves are traitors.

They are the true heroes of Quel'Thalas. The Sin'dorei legacy is Quel'Thalas. Lor'themar, Liadrin, Rommath and Halduron carry on that legacy.

High/Void Elf fans need to realise that.

[Stormdash]

No more than the entire Blood Elf faction are traitors to the alliance.

This would be the Alliance that has

A) never repudiated Garithos and his various racist gambits to get more of them killed including their ruler
B) began a campaign of espionage before they ever joined the Horde
C) actually began cover invasion of the Ghostlands, again, before they ever joined the Horde

How exactly did the Blood Elves betray *them*? Think you got the history backwards fam

[Zuben]

Not exactly. I like to consider the inhabitants of Azeroth free to choose their lot in life. As much as their societies dwell in the medieval spectrum I don't think anyone is forced to be a farmer, a soldier or whatever; they've rather chosen to pursue those career paths. The idea goes for their nationality too; a Thalassian elf is free to leave their homeland to build their life elsewhere. During times of peace, anyway.

So Valeera is a free agent who works for House Wrynn. She even found her in that life because first the Scourge killed her family then the Horde enslaved her and forced to partake in gladiatorial matches. At that point Quel'thalas was already part of the Horde, yet they still allowed the enslavement of one of their own. So Valeera didn't betray her people, but I think we could imply the opposite happened. And as said, she works for House Wrynn specifically. Not the Alliance.

Vereesa works for Dalaran/Kirin Tor, albeit with affiliation to the Alliance; she quite despises blood elves and her part in the Purge makes it clear she's not a friend to them. You could say she betrayed the trust of the Sunreavers, but she did so with Jaina's sanction. After that point I think Vereesa is stripped of any right to call herself Thalassian, but initially she was free to leave Quel'thalas and make a place for herself in Kirin Tor's forces, so she didn't so much betray her people than cut ties with them. Even if she herself considers Quel'thalas her home (part of her dialog in the Zul'Aman chatter) I don't think she has that right after what she did.

Alleria chose to be in the Alliance; she may therefore be an enemy of Quel'thalas, but that's due to politics more than how she feels about her homeland. When Alleria joined the Alliance her people were still allied or at least affiliated with them. Times changed while she was AWOL and now she finds her homeland at odds with the coalition she believes in. Since she has a lover and a son in the Alliance AND her newfound affinity with the Void makes her a prime danger to the Sunwell it's a no-brainer she didn't return to Silvermoon. Or, well, she tried, but then the afore-mentioned Void incident happened. I wouldn't quite call her a traitor, because the circumstances are what they are and she was free to join the Alliance when she did. It's just that she does partake in operations against the Horde and by proxy Quel'thalas, so there's no question she plainly is considered an enemy. But I think calling her a traitor would require an element of betrayal. Alleria wasn't sworn to Quel'thalas afaik, she was just born there and worked as a ranger. I don't think it's a lifetime career that you can't leave or she would've been considered a traitor when she joined the Outland expedition. Darkhan was a traitor, because he exploited the trust of the Thalassian people from a position of responsibility. Alleria merely found herself at a different side once she returned to Azeroth. It was by no means presumed she would re-join Silvermoon's ranks. She does still yearn to return to Quel'thalas, or rather, re-unite them with the Alliance.

Lor'themar himself could be questioned of betrayal, since he went against Sylvanas even though his people were still following her. I recall the scenario where we save Baine from captivity, and must kill his Sunreaver guards to pull it off. So yeah, Lor'themar could be called a traitor in the most literal sense, but he did so because he considered the choice to be the best move for his people's wellbeing.

The blood elves who become void elves could be called traitors, since the practice is explicitly outlawed in Quel'thalas; voluntarily infusing the Void effectively makes them enemies of the state. Now, it could be argued they too are practicing their right to freely leave Quel'thalas to make a life elsewhere, but since their particular deed makes them de facto enemies of the kingdom I think we've entered a grey area.

[Arikara]

Alleria, Vereesa, and every edgy elf and silver covenant? Yes. Not up for discussion.

Valeera is more ambiguous, but still probably falls under "yes".

Neutral high elf refugees who never took much of any action are not traitors, but they sure did abandon their homeland when things got rough.

[Ardenaso]

one of your previous posts has that Liadrin's quote that Vereesa abandoned Quel'thalas and her Blood Elven brethren in favor of the humans, and the Alliance

[Tanaria]

one of your previous posts has that Liadrin's quote that Vereesa abandoned Quel'thalas and her Blood Elven brethren in favor of the humans, and the Alliance

As much as I hate Vereesa, Liadrin never said that...she might think it, I know I do, but Liadrin has never interacted with Vereesa.

[Ardenaso]

As much as I hate Vereesa, Liadrin never said that...she might think it, I know I do, but Liadrin has never interacted with Vereesa.

that's sad I thought there's more; the only thing else I know is Vereesa's attempted murder to Rommath in Suramar

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Vereesa is the only one you could make a case for being a traitor as she and the high elfs did there win thing while the blood elfs rebuilt.

Alleria stuck to what the high elfs ways and the alliance ways and it was the blood elfs that betrayed that.

Valeera Was enslaved by the blood elfs ally’s and the blood elfs didn’t lift a finger to free her or likely other blood elfs slaves so the blood elfs betrayed her more so then the other way round.

[Dancaris]

How can you blame blood elves been traitors, when they litteraly live in their homeland, defend it and fight to live there?
And not calling traitors high elves and void elves that kill blood elves (5.1 and 5.2 patch, SoUndersity and so on) just because little lion or Jaina tell them to do it. Their own people, maybe even their relatives.
Its just that simple, Im sure. And no word or doing from void-infused Alleria or her crazy sister Vereesa can change that.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

This would be the Alliance that has

A) never repudiated Garithos and his various racist gambits to get more of them killed including their ruler

Does the alliance even know this ever happens? All of Garithos men were killed by sylvanas and he was a commander of lorderon so it’s not like every one knew he was a racist twat as almost every other lorderon commander who could have known him is also dead or forsaken.

[huth]

I wouldn't go as far as calling them traitors, but Alleria and Verresa did turn their back on their people.

Alleria was gone for the vast majority of the time in which the whole change from High to Blood took place. "Her people" don't really exist anymore.

[Cyanu]

well no matter how terrible the leadership of your country is or how badly it's treating you defecting to another one technically is treason

i mean if during the cold war if a group of americans was treated badly by the Nixon administration and decided to say 'fuck it we're going red- communism would work better for us' and proceeds to defect to the USSR, wouldn't that be treason?

and no being missing in action is no real excuse to defect either

the High Elven 'country' is not the Alliance (that would be the equivalent of NATO)- it's Quel Thalas (the equivalent of USA)- so if let's say a city from USA ldecides to leave to join the Warsaw Pact that's treason

what happened with Garrithos ages ago is irrelevant too- Quel' Thalas has been a member of the Horde for years, it doesn't matter what they think or feel about history, besides they didn't betray the Horde- they betrayed Quel Thalas

as for the part of them wanting to bring Silvermoon back to the Alliance... that's like wanting to bring Washington DC to the Warsaw Pact