Page 1 of 9
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Spoonfeeding is bad for the health of the game?

    To be fully endgame geared 254ilvl all you need to do is run m+15 dungeons each week. thats it. to be top level end game geared as a casual that doesnt even raid all you need to do is run m+15 dungeons each week.

    Consider raiders who raid mythic, collecting end game gear then having a free piece to choose every week, say 1/2 items drop each week + 1 from weekly vault that you choose, + lego = fully end game mythic geared in at most 1-2 months considering trades.

    HARDCORE M+ players that spam keys like there life depended on it. considering valor cap, lego and weekly vaults can be 250+ in a month.

    I see people saying gear is too hard to obtain well consider this:

    If your a casual you are full end game mythic geared in 3 months by running 15s
    if your a mythic raider you are full end game mythic geared in 2 months
    if your a m+ player you are almost end game mythic geared (246) in 1 month.
    Now, here is the part that people dont understand, hardcore players will play mythic raids AND m+, so they can get 250+ilvl in a matter of 2/3 weeks.

    Do you not see that the games lifespan for current content is too short due to how easy everything is to obtain??? all this spoonfeeding from blizzard has absolutely murdered the game and is exactly the reason why everyone plays for 2 months and unsubs, they max there toon and think thats it nothing to do now and they are right! gear has never been so easy to obtain and people have never been so quick to unsub, how on earth do people not see how it is all linked.

    SIMPLIFYING BUFFING AND SPOONFEEDING KILLS THE GAME.

    Make rare items rare
    make epic items epic, near everyone has a bag full of epics like they are grey, ahh need to sell all this crap in my bag (PURPLES!!!!!!!)
    make legendary items ..........legendary
    EVERYONE has a legendary, god damn everyone! remember when 1 or 2 ppl on your server had glaives? hes so lucky! im gonna keep attending raids hopefully il be in the 0.01%, if the current team at blizzard were in charge back then EVERYONE WOULD HAVE HAD GLAIVES, do you not see how that would make the whole sense of wonder around them die instantly?

    Then again, i dont suspect many people that play wow currently even know what glaives are. if they did ...."iTS my gAME tOO i wANT gLAIVES bLIZZARD gIVE mE pLZ i HAVE jOB dNT hAVE tIEM" then blizzard would put in a system where all you need to do is collect 10piles of golden sheep shit over 2 weeks and you can have your glaives.

    I just last week leveled a shaman in 20hours just by spamming dungeons, 7 expansions of world content, all that sense of wonder replaced with standing in ogrimmar clicking sign for random dungeon. wow has lost its identity so much i dont think it can ever come back unless someone with a brain takes over at blizzard, giving the community everything for free is not the answer....clearly.

    No doubt some people going to come in here and say "iTS bEEN pROVEN hARDER mORE gRINDY cONTENT mAKES pPPL uNSUB mORE" i say well if thats the case how come the grindfest that is final fantasy is overtaking wow???? answer me that???
    Last edited by odamienskii; 2021-09-01 at 07:15 AM.

  2. #2
    A bit misleading as without the great vault drops you cannot be as geared as you claim. The factoring the massively larger loot pool, it's harder to actually get what you want while still having the same(possibly higher) chance of getting duplicate slot drops as you already have at max ilvl. The drops from raiding in mythic are usable as is if they drop for you AND you still get the same great vault to get a piece of gear that can be higher than m+ if you've beaten sylv/kt.

  3. #3
    M+ requires more skill than Mythic raiding so I’m fine with that, especially the higher up you go, because then you get exposed if you don’t interrupt or cc.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    if your a m+ player you are almost end game mythic geared (246) in 1 month.
    I'm curious if anyone can actually confirm if this is true. Sure you could get to 236 if you were spamming M+ enough and I can certainly see some people with lots of spare time doing it, but isn't this more or less a minority of a minority? I haven't done the math but I could imagine it could take a while to get full BiS gear from M+. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Also - I've heard people many times complain that there wasn't anything they could sink all the hours they want to, in a certain activity. We all remember Vanilla where you could farm rep until exalted without any cap, except for the fact that mobs had a respawn timer. Perhaps M+ giving you as much gear as you're running them could satisfy the need for those people who want to relive that type of grind?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    M+ requires more skill than Mythic raiding so I’m fine with that, especially the higher up you go, because then you get exposed if you don’t interrupt or cc.
    So you believe a mythic raid is easier than a M+15. Interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Sites have their own audiences with their own specialized opinion makers.

  6. #6
    Now as keyrunner you need to do both raids and keys since you need to get socketed gear and fully upgraded dps shards - though set bonus do not work in keys, but individual shard bonuses works pretty well, and fully upgraded dps shard even in 239 (heroic raid) piece of gear will outperform 252 piece of gear without socket.

  7. #7
    So much misinformation and hyperbole in one post, where the fuck do you even start responding?

    PS: FF14 is less grindy than WoW is, particularly when it comes to "mandatory" grinding. Really that just speaks to your ignorance as to what actually constitutes grinding.

    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    M+ requires more skill than Mythic raiding so I’m fine with that, especially the higher up you go, because then you get exposed if you don’t interrupt or cc.
    I assume you'd be willing to link your chars that have both cutting edge achieves this expansion? Because this post couldn't be more wrong.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    To be fully endgame geared 254ilvl all you need to do is run m+15 dungeons each week. thats it. to be top level end game geared as a casual that doesnt even raid all you need to do is run m+15 dungeons each week.

    Consider raiders who raid mythic, collecting end game gear then having a free piece to choose every week, say 1/2 items drop each week + 1 from weekly vault that you choose, + lego = fully end game mythic geared in at most 1-2 months considering trades.

    HARDCORE M+ players that spam keys like there life depended on it. considering valor cap, lego and weekly vaults can be 250+ in a month.

    I see people saying gear is too hard to obtain well consider this:

    If your a casual you are full end game mythic geared in 3 months by running 15s
    if your a mythic raider you are full end game mythic geared in 2 months
    if your a m+ player you are almost end game mythic geared (246) in 1 month.

    Do you not see that the games lifespan for current content is too short due to how easy everything is to obtain??? all this spoonfeeding from blizzard has absolutely murdered the game and is exactly the reason why everyone plays for 2 months and unsubs, they max there toon and think thats it nothing to do now and they are right! gear has never been so easy to obtain and people have never been so quick to unsub, how on earth do people not see how it is all linked.

    SIMPLIFYING BUFFING AND SPOONFEEDING KILLS THE GAME.

    Make rare items rare
    make epic items epic, near everyone has a bag full of epics like they are grey, ahh need to sell all this crap in my bag (PURPLES!!!!!!!)
    make legendary items ..........legendary
    EVERYONE has a legendary, god damn everyone! remember when 1 or 2 ppl on your server had glaives? hes so lucky! im gonna keep attending raids hopefully il be in the 0.01%, if the current team at blizzard were in charge back then EVERYONE WOULD HAVE HAD GLAIVES, do you not see how that would make the whole sense of wonder around them die instantly?

    Then again, i dont suspect many people that play wow currently even know what glaives are. if they did ...."iTS my gAME tOO i wANT gLAIVES bLIZZARD gIVE mE pLZ i HAVE jOB dNT hAVE tIEM" then blizzard would put in a system where all you need to do is collect 10piles of golden sheep shit over 2 weeks and you can have your glaives.

    I just last week leveled a shaman in 20hours just by spamming dungeons, 7 expansions of world content, all that sense of wonder replaced with standing in ogrimmar clicking sign for random dungeon. wow has lost its identity so much i dont think it can ever come back unless someone with a brain takes over at blizzard, giving the community everything for free is not the answer....clearly.

    No doubt some people going to come in here and say "iTS bEEN pROVEN hARDER mORE gRINDY cONTENT mAKES pPPL uNSUB mORE" i say well if thats the case how come the grindfest that is final fantasy is overtaking wow???? answer me that???
    To me if feels like you are more worried about what other people are doing or not doing and not your own game. Could just be me, but ilvl isn't the end all and be all. You can't get the same gear or quality of gear in 90% of the cases from mythic + dungeons, regardless of how high dungeon you go. The raid stuff is way better in most cases, has more procs, the new shards, better weapons, weapons with procs and for most classes BIS all comes from the raid. Not even sure if you have an argument.

    And besides the same BS game issues blizz has had for years a lot of people are stopping subs because of the issues blizz is currently having as a company. So that could be said yes. The difference in mythic + gear and raid gear outside of ilvl is vast and not even worth comparing, the difference in logistically being able to run mythic + dungeons vs. putting raid teams together is significant. Trust me, you will get over it or you won't.

  9. #9
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Cretaceous Period
    Posts
    21,808
    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    HARDCORE M+ players that spam keys like there life depended on it. considering valor cap, lego and weekly vaults can be 250+ in a month.

    I see people saying gear is too hard to obtain well consider this:

    If your a casual you are full end game mythic geared in 3 months by running 15s
    if your a m+ player you are almost end game mythic geared (246) in 1 month.
    Between valor caps and lack of duplicate protection on vault, these figures are extremely unrealistic. The low valor cap is going to limit how much people can upgrade drastically, even if they do go out and farm all their best drops. The lack of duplicate protection on the vault means that is is likely that people are going to have weeks where their vault offers them slots they already have filled. Even if you got literally no duplication for a single slot, that's still sixteen weeks to fill them all, and that's still a nearly impossible 'if.'

    I run a fuckton of m+ -- a couple weeks in S1 I hit almost 50 keys in a single week -- and by the end of the season I still didn't have a vault reward in every slot. We're already over a month into the season and I'm not 246 ilvl, and I've had some pretty good vault luck.

    Regardless, I'd hardly call one good piece of loot a week to be OP or spoonfeeding or rolling in epics.

    People need to worry less about what gear other people are wearing and worry more about themselves. Gear is just a means to an end anyway.

    for moderation questions/concerns, please contact a global:

    TzivaRadux SimcaElysiaZaelsinoxskarmaVenara

    | youtube | twitch | twitter |


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    No doubt some people going to come in here and say "iTS bEEN pROVEN hARDER mORE gRINDY cONTENT mAKES pPPL uNSUB mORE" i say well if thats the case how come the grindfest that is final fantasy is overtaking wow???? answer me that???
    Because ffxiv is neither more gtindy or harder than wow. The bosses are between lfr and heroic in difficulty for tge most part and the game essentially has a built in dbm.

    Plus there's also no limit on battle resses outside of "do you have enough mana.".

    Cataclysm proved the whole "make it harder and make everyone get good." doesn't work. The game had a massive bleed out that was only really stopped when lfr was brought in and ghostcrawler had to quite literally apologise for his get good post.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    To be fully endgame geared 254ilvl all you need to do is run m+15 dungeons each week. thats it. to be top level end game geared as a casual that doesnt even raid all you need to do is run m+15 dungeons each week.

    Consider raiders who raid mythic, collecting end game gear then having a free piece to choose every week, say 1/2 items drop each week + 1 from weekly vault that you choose, + lego = fully end game mythic geared in at most 1-2 months considering trades.

    HARDCORE M+ players that spam keys like there life depended on it. considering valor cap, lego and weekly vaults can be 250+ in a month.

    I see people saying gear is too hard to obtain well consider this:

    If your a casual you are full end game mythic geared in 3 months by running 15s
    if your a mythic raider you are full end game mythic geared in 2 months
    if your a m+ player you are almost end game mythic geared (246) in 1 month.

    Do you not see that the games lifespan for current content is too short due to how easy everything is to obtain??? all this spoonfeeding from blizzard has absolutely murdered the game and is exactly the reason why everyone plays for 2 months and unsubs, they max there toon and think thats it nothing to do now and they are right! gear has never been so easy to obtain and people have never been so quick to unsub, how on earth do people not see how it is all linked.

    SIMPLIFYING BUFFING AND SPOONFEEDING KILLS THE GAME.

    Make rare items rare
    make epic items epic, near everyone has a bag full of epics like they are grey, ahh need to sell all this crap in my bag (PURPLES!!!!!!!)
    make legendary items ..........legendary
    EVERYONE has a legendary, god damn everyone! remember when 1 or 2 ppl on your server had glaives? hes so lucky! im gonna keep attending raids hopefully il be in the 0.01%, if the current team at blizzard were in charge back then EVERYONE WOULD HAVE HAD GLAIVES, do you not see how that would make the whole sense of wonder around them die instantly?

    Then again, i dont suspect many people that play wow currently even know what glaives are. if they did ...."iTS my gAME tOO i wANT gLAIVES bLIZZARD gIVE mE pLZ i HAVE jOB dNT hAVE tIEM" then blizzard would put in a system where all you need to do is collect 10piles of golden sheep shit over 2 weeks and you can have your glaives.

    I just last week leveled a shaman in 20hours just by spamming dungeons, 7 expansions of world content, all that sense of wonder replaced with standing in ogrimmar clicking sign for random dungeon. wow has lost its identity so much i dont think it can ever come back unless someone with a brain takes over at blizzard, giving the community everything for free is not the answer....clearly.

    No doubt some people going to come in here and say "iTS bEEN pROVEN hARDER mORE gRINDY cONTENT mAKES pPPL uNSUB mORE" i say well if thats the case how come the grindfest that is final fantasy is overtaking wow???? answer me that???
    I have nice advice to you, get rid of PvE. I had been playing this game almost 14 years and my last 6 years i only interest in to PvP. No boring at all because u know when arena gates open u'll face Diffrent "Bosses" no tactic, no stand position, lame raid leader, no nothing.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Advent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Other Side.
    Posts
    2,731
    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post

    Make rare items rare
    make epic items epic, near everyone has a bag full of epics like they are grey, ahh need to sell all this crap in my bag (PURPLES!!!!!!!)

    Tried that in Shadowlands. Have you SEEN how people have whined about that the past 9 months?

    make legendary items ..........legendary
    EVERYONE has a legendary, god damn everyone! remember when 1 or 2 ppl on your server had glaives? hes so lucky! im gonna keep attending raids hopefully il be in the 0.01%

    No. Actually, FUCK that crap. I NEVER looked at those players and went "Ooh one day that'll be me", because that's some serious bullshit of the highest order. Who wants to be part of a group that sees a legendary drop and only ONE person in the raid can even use it? Or even worse, you don't even HAVE that class in the raid. Imagine doing Black Temple with no rogue or warrior, and glaives drop. Just imagine that. Who in the actual hell is wetting their pants over this?


    Then again, i dont suspect many people that play wow currently even know what glaives are. if they did ...."iTS my gAME tOO i wANT gLAIVES bLIZZARD gIVE mE pLZ i HAVE jOB dNT hAVE tIEM" then blizzard would put in a system where all you need to do is collect 10piles of golden sheep shit over 2 weeks and you can have your glaives.

    You seem angry at people who just want to have a shot at something cool too. Imagine being an enhancement shaman or Feral Druid from TBC all the way to the end of Cata. By that point, neither one of them had EVER gotten a legendary item made for them, and this is just cool 'because reasons'?

    I just last week leveled a shaman in 20hours just by spamming dungeons, 7 expansions of world content, all that sense of wonder replaced with standing in ogrimmar clicking sign for random dungeon. wow has lost its identity so much i dont think it can ever come back unless someone with a brain takes over at blizzard, giving the community everything for free is not the answer....clearly.

    Yes, let's all go back to spamming trade for hours, or waiting for a guild tank/healer to come on before you can go and do anything. PEAK wow content right there. Remember those old days, weren't they great when I was 19 and had no responsibilities, and all the time in the world? God, I'm 30+ now and probably have a wife and kids, a career, bills to pay, family to support, but let's change the game to appeal to the generation of gamers who probably wouldn't touch this old game with a 300ft pole! That'll do it! This is such a unique, and nuanced take! /s

    No doubt some people going to come in here and say "iTS bEEN pROVEN hARDER mORE gRINDY cONTENT mAKES pPPL uNSUB mORE" i say well if thats the case how come the grindfest that is final fantasy is overtaking wow???? answer me that???
    Final Fantasy's grinds are mostly optional. That's it. It's also not wow. A lot of the people playing it seem to be interested in something new, that just isn't WOW. Who knew, after probably a decade of playing a single game, people would want something different. It's almost like that's been the prevailing sentiment for 14+ years now.
    I don't think you really understand any of what you just said OP.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    Between valor caps and lack of duplicate protection on vault, these figures are extremely unrealistic. The low valor cap is going to limit how much people can upgrade drastically, even if they do go out and farm all their best drops. The lack of duplicate protection on the vault means that is is likely that people are going to have weeks where their vault offers them slots they already have filled. Even if you got literally no duplication for a single slot, that's still sixteen weeks to fill them all, and that's still a nearly impossible 'if.'

    I run a fuckton of m+ -- a couple weeks in S1 I hit almost 50 keys in a single week -- and by the end of the season I still didn't have a vault reward in every slot. We're already over a month into the season and I'm not 246 ilvl, and I've had some pretty good vault luck.

    Regardless, I'd hardly call one good piece of loot a week to be OP or spoonfeeding or rolling in epics.

    People need to worry less about what gear other people are wearing and worry more about themselves. Gear is just a means to an end anyway.
    This is very correct. If you only do one key a week, a chat can get stuck for weeks or even a month at a time with essentially no upgrades. Realistically you need to run at least four dungeons a week on any character you care about, that's a significant time commitment
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dontfeedthetroll View Post
    I have nice advice to you, get rid of PvE. I had been playing this game almost 14 years and my last 6 years i only interest in to PvP. No boring at all because u know when arena gates open u'll face Diffrent "Bosses" no tactic, no stand position, lame raid leader, no nothing.
    Why would i play the unbalanced mess of a side game called pvp?

  15. #15
    Hi
    I'm a M+ player who spams M+ like my life depends on it.
    I don't raid.
    I had to take the pity resource prize from my vault on week 3...
    ...

    With that said, I am with you OP that rare items should be rare.
    The fact that we now just talk about items in terms of "full _ _ _ ilvl" instead of talking about how the warrior is fully geared because he got the awesome dragon sword + the swirly twirly shadow trinket.

    Items are just an ilvl and stats. And everyone sims the stats and talks about BiS. But honestly a lot of specs will still be okay even with garbage stats. It's just ilvl.
    Everyone could just as easily have generic gear on and instead of getting new pieces you just fill a bar. The higher the bar, the higher your ilvl.
    SorryNotSorry

  16. #16
    IMHO BiS gear should be a lot easier to obtain. Give out the best gear for M+10, honor and heroic raids - and make it less random. Make anything skill related reward cosmetic prestige that becomes unobtainable at the end of the season.

    I want to be done with gearing so I can play the game, not have to endlessly grind to get gear.

    If the game isn't fun to play after getting geared, its even less fun without gear.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosnogard View Post
    I'm curious if anyone can actually confirm if this is true. Sure you could get to 236 if you were spamming M+ enough and I can certainly see some people with lots of spare time doing it, but isn't this more or less a minority of a minority? I haven't done the math but I could imagine it could take a while to get full BiS gear from M+. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Also - I've heard people many times complain that there wasn't anything they could sink all the hours they want to, in a certain activity. We all remember Vanilla where you could farm rep until exalted without any cap, except for the fact that mobs had a respawn timer. Perhaps M+ giving you as much gear as you're running them could satisfy the need for those people who want to relive that type of grind?
    all 15s in time is 2k rating. that means you can upgrade your items to 246, add in the 252s each week and the 262 legendary and you are easily approaching 250+

    I dinged my shaman 7 days ago im currently 237ilvl 230 equipped with my first vault to come this morning and 4000 valor to spend. check my toon takemeta-draenor and you will see im not lieing, 1 week 240, check in 3 weeks and it will be "confirmed" i said 1month because thats for the average player, players like me will do it in 2/3 weeks.
    Last edited by odamienskii; 2021-09-01 at 06:41 AM.

  18. #18
    If your a casual you are full end game mythic geared in 3 months by running 15s
    3 Months -> 12 Weeks
    So you get 12 Pieces from the Vault, when RNG is in your side. Maybe, just maybe, youl'll get the other 4 pieces from the dungeons itself and upgrade it with valor.
    If you put so much afford in the game, you probably aren't casual. Sounds like you need to run 10 15+ keys a week.

    final fantasy is overtaking wow???? answer me that???
    Thanks for the laugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    M+ requires more skill than Mythic raiding so I’m fine with that, especially the higher up you go, because then you get exposed if you don’t interrupt or cc.
    What?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by InflaterMouse View Post
    To me if feels like you are more worried about what other people are doing or not doing and not your own game. Could just be me, but ilvl isn't the end all and be all. You can't get the same gear or quality of gear in 90% of the cases from mythic + dungeons, regardless of how high dungeon you go. The raid stuff is way better in most cases, has more procs, the new shards, better weapons, weapons with procs and for most classes BIS all comes from the raid. Not even sure if you have an argument.

    And besides the same BS game issues blizz has had for years a lot of people are stopping subs because of the issues blizz is currently having as a company. So that could be said yes. The difference in mythic + gear and raid gear outside of ilvl is vast and not even worth comparing, the difference in logistically being able to run mythic + dungeons vs. putting raid teams together is significant. Trust me, you will get over it or you won't.
    the shards drop on average 2/3 a week, there is 12 shards so it will take 4/5 weeks to get all shards. 1 month.

    the problem isnt the content not being enough, the content is enough, its just way too easy to obtain to the point that if you dont want to play alts your done with the game in 2/3 months...hence the post....hence all the unsubs.

    i just rerolled a toon and within a week im 237 ilvl, the toon itself feels like.... i dont know, it doesnt have any soul. it feels worthless and boosted. the numbers its pumping out are overpowered, also gives it less feeling of worth, the game has no soul anymore because everything is free and boosted. not earned like it used to be.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    Between valor caps and lack of duplicate protection on vault, these figures are extremely unrealistic. The low valor cap is going to limit how much people can upgrade drastically, even if they do go out and farm all their best drops. The lack of duplicate protection on the vault means that is is likely that people are going to have weeks where their vault offers them slots they already have filled. Even if you got literally no duplication for a single slot, that's still sixteen weeks to fill them all, and that's still a nearly impossible 'if.'

    I run a fuckton of m+ -- a couple weeks in S1 I hit almost 50 keys in a single week -- and by the end of the season I still didn't have a vault reward in every slot. We're already over a month into the season and I'm not 246 ilvl, and I've had some pretty good vault luck.

    Regardless, I'd hardly call one good piece of loot a week to be OP or spoonfeeding or rolling in epics.

    People need to worry less about what gear other people are wearing and worry more about themselves. Gear is just a means to an end anyway.
    thats rubbish mate, 1 week i been 60 on my shaman im 237 with zero vaults first to come this morning, thats not free and easy to obtain gear? 4k valor in bank ready to spend.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WurstKaeseSzenario View Post
    IMHO BiS gear should be a lot easier to obtain. Give out the best gear for M+10, honor and heroic raids - and make it less random. Make anything skill related reward cosmetic prestige that becomes unobtainable at the end of the season.

    I want to be done with gearing so I can play the game, not have to endlessly grind to get gear.

    If the game isn't fun to play after getting geared, its even less fun without gear.
    why though? why not give people something to work towards? why does every casual have to have the very best gear? in s1 the weapon from pvp 233, that gives ppl something to work towards, might be unobtainable, not worth it? so what? let the people who are prepared to work for it have something to work for, instead of demanding you get everything for free so they have nothing worth logging in for.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    So much misinformation and hyperbole in one post, where the fuck do you even start responding?

    PS: FF14 is less grindy than WoW is, particularly when it comes to "mandatory" grinding. Really that just speaks to your ignorance as to what actually constitutes grinding.



    I assume you'd be willing to link your chars that have both cutting edge achieves this expansion? Because this post couldn't be more wrong.
    I got it for the first tier, but I quit when 9.1 when came out because the game is boring, and 9.1 offered little very little to keep me interested.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •