Spoonfeeding is bad for the health of the game?

[muto]

Translation: I am insecure and require validation for the content that I do.

I was clearing Mythic when I was playing. I guess you missed that part. The only times I missed CE was when I wasn't playing, or didn't care. Mythic raiding is not hard, and everyone can clear the raid given time. High end M+ like 20s+ is definitely harder than the last couple bosses in a Mythic raid tier. 15s is probably comparable to the other 80% of the raid.

[ipoststuff]

I don't raid, i don't like it. And it's not about rewards. It feels like a second job to me, you have to keep a schedule and play even when you are not having as much fun. Fuck all that. I do lfr once a tier to see the raid and that's usually it.

I do like mythic+ dungeons however. I get one 252 item per week if i'm lucky. And you think that's too much? Good thing you are not the one on deciding this stuff.

[crusadernero]

I don't raid, i don't like it. And it's not about rewards. It feels like a second job to me, you have to keep a schedule and play even when you are not having as much fun. Fuck all that. I do lfr once a tier to see the raid and that's usually it.

I do like mythic+ dungeons however. I get one 252 item per week if i'm lucky. And you think that's too much? Good thing you are not the one on deciding this stuff.

as how it should be. Its 2021, peoples gaming habits and what the accept to do has changed since wow launched. Back in the day people accepted raiding on a schedule and all that, I was one of them. For years I didnt think much of it and outright accepted it thinking thats how it should be. Over time I grew tierd of it, being locked into a schedule without the freedom of choosing not to play.

Personally im glad thats not the case anymore. I can freely do what I want, when I want. I love the raids in wow, Blizzard does a great job with them. But - I wish they added more content outside of raids for us to do. I do LFR now and then, but would be great if we had more content on the side.

[Soon-TM]

I don't think you really understand any of what you just said OP.

Very well said. I really think OP wasn't really thinking about what he was typing.

[Ryzeth]

Very well said. I really think OP wasn't really thinking about what he was typing.

MMO-C users in a nutshell.

[xpsync]

Hate being forced to M+ to stay on raid team.

[odamienskii]

as how it should be. Its 2021, peoples gaming habits and what the accept to do has changed since wow launched. Back in the day people accepted raiding on a schedule and all that, I was one of them. For years I didnt think much of it and outright accepted it thinking thats how it should be. Over time I grew tierd of it, being locked into a schedule without the freedom of choosing not to play.

Personally im glad thats not the case anymore. I can freely do what I want, when I want. I love the raids in wow, Blizzard does a great job with them. But - I wish they added more content outside of raids for us to do. I do LFR now and then, but would be great if we had more content on the side.

What people dont get is by accommadating the people that dont have time you completely dumb down and squish the game for the people that do, thats the whole point, by allowing all of the players that play only 2 hours a week to be best geared etc your crippling the enjoyment of the people that play 40+

So congratulations 2hour a week players you have gotten what you wanted, a game that is losing tons and tons of players.

What you dont realise is say if you lose your job or decide to take a vacation for 2 months and play wow, there wont be much there for you because the game is no longer designed for people that play alot.

hence all the people leaving after 2 active months.

If you only play 2 hour a week what makes you so entitled to all the best end game gear? so you feel good too? the people who play more than you have nothing to do because everything is handed out to accommadate you.

See the comment about glaives? when everything is handed to everyone for free it loses its value. call it legendary all you want but its not legendary anymore its just a free handout item that everyone gets so its not special hence all the items your obtaining have no worth.

I just got changeling in my weekly vault and im disgusted by the feeling that i have about it, i just looted bis trinket and i feel NOTHING. not bothered, free handout by blizzard, did i deserve that? no. so it doesnt mean anything to me. at least i dont have to run mists 40 times for it. yay less play time.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Do you not see that the games lifespan for current content is too short due to how easy everything is to obtain???

Maybe the game's lifespan would be longer if they actually had a lot of content. I remember a time when expansions actually had more than 10 hours of content.

- - - Updated - - -

Modern WoW is like The Elder Scrolls; each entry has less content than the last, culminating in a shitty latest game where they have to pad out the game with unfun filler nobody likes to obscure the fact that there you're paying $60 for 10 hours good content and hundreds of hours of shitty content.

[crusadernero]

What people dont get is by accommadating the people that dont have time you completely dumb down and squish the game for the people that do, thats the whole point, by allowing all of the players that play only 2 hours a week to be best geared etc your crippling the enjoyment of the people that play 40+

So congratulations 2hour a week players you have gotten what you wanted, a game that is losing tons and tons of players.

What you dont realise is say if you lose your job or decide to take a vacation for 2 months and play wow, there wont be much there for you because the game is no longer designed for people that play alot.

hence all the people leaving after 2 active months.

If you only play 2 hour a week what makes you so entitled to all the best end game gear? so you feel good too? the people who play more than you have nothing to do because everything is handed out to accommadate you.

See the comment about glaives? when everything is handed to everyone for free it loses its value. call it legendary all you want but its not legendary anymore its just a free handout item that everyone gets so its not special hence all the items your obtaining have no worth.

I just got changeling in my weekly vault and im disgusted by the feeling that i have about it, i just looted bis trinket and i feel NOTHING. not bothered, free handout by blizzard, did i deserve that? no. so it doesnt mean anything to me. at least i dont have to run mists 40 times for it. yay less play time.

Look at you, trying to be smart. Telling me what I like doing in wow. I have played wow since vanilla and i've been through all there is to in this game. All of it. I dont mind that retail is what it is now, I find it ok enough for me. If I want hard and challenging content, I can go and do that. If not, there are other ways.

Lets get one thing clear - wow has never been hard or difficult. Time consuming? Yes, sure. That can be the case to now in retail if you choose to.

Im actually playing classic more now than retail. Yes, classic. The most dead version of wow. I would love if retail went that route to, but it never will. Retail is what it is, and I take it for what it is. Its decent fun for some time then it fades off. No worries, can come back at a later stage. Right now I enjoy the slow and peaceful leveling in a huge world - with a nice guild to accompany me.

I have never felt entitled for jack shit in this game. My perspective has always been that if I cant bother doing what it takes to get certain gear, titles, mounts, achivments or whatnot - thats on me and no one else. I have lost out on so many cool stuff cause I either didnt have time to do it, didnt want to or whatever other reason. But never have I demanded anything from this game. All I want is a decent and cool game to play. What other people obtain and get is not of my concern at all, congrats to them for doing it. I know alof of the titles/Mounts demands commitment.

Tbh it sounds like you shouldnt even play retail and either outright quit or take a long break. You dont have to play it.

And im not sure if Blizzard should shift the attention to those that play 40+ hours a week. I have been playing classic on/off since it relaunched and had a blast with it, but never came close to those hours. Like most people I would think.

People geared rather quickly up in classic too btw.

[Lilsamee]

M+ requires more skill than Mythic raiding so I’m fine with that, especially the higher up you go, because then you get exposed if you don’t interrupt or cc.

if u think m+15 requires more skills then mythic ur either retarded or braindead. who gives a fuck about m+20, it gives the same loot as a 15, and no not even a 20 requires skills. Imagine saying something that doesnt need tactic, with the only thing required from u is pressing interrupt and stuns is hard. this game aint for u love

[Athorha]

Remember when everyone was extremepy inefficient at this game and some servers only had 1 or two pairs of glaives.

[Indigenously Abled]

No doubt some people going to come in here and say "iTS bEEN pROVEN hARDER mORE gRINDY cONTENT mAKES pPPL uNSUB mORE" i say well if thats the case how come the grindfest that is final fantasy is overtaking wow???? answer me that???

Not shitting on their playerbase publicly, for one.

[ReesePieces]

IMHO BiS gear should be a lot easier to obtain. Give out the best gear for M+10, honor and heroic raids - and make it less random. Make anything skill related reward cosmetic prestige that becomes unobtainable at the end of the season.

This is essentially the FFXIV gearing philosophy.

The best gear is obtainable through slightly above average difficulty content while the most difficult content rewards prestige items.

I hope the popularity of FFXIV causes WoW to move in this direction as well.

[odamienskii]

Remember when everyone was extremepy inefficient at this game and some servers only had 1 or two pairs of glaives.

Inefficient? it wasnt about efficiency it was about the item itself being rare af. as i said if the current developers at blizzard were in charge back then legit everyone would have glaives. do you not see how they then arent that special anymore?

[Daffan]

lol this conclusion is nothing new that OP has. Here's the 'underlying' mechanics.

Casuals complain the game is too elitist

Blizzard gives easy gear / rewards for nothing

Casuals complain there is no relevant content (Even though there was, it was just skipped or made obsolete by welfare)

[InflaterMouse]

the shards drop on average 2/3 a week, there is 12 shards so it will take 4/5 weeks to get all shards. 1 month.
the problem isn't the content not being enough, the content is enough, its just way too easy to obtain to the point that if you don't want to play alts your done with the game in 2/3 months...hence the post....hence all the unsubs.

So is it exactly the time that concerns you? As in how long it takes a normal person to gear? Also, I will touch on the point I made previously that raid gear and mythic gear aren't equal and when the only thing you keep bringing up is ilvl that isn't a strong argument. Having something difficult to get is one thing but to me it seems like you want it to just take more time or have a lower chance of getting it.

If that's the case and you flip the coin, why would I want to waste double time for a lower chance to get a piece of gear that isn't as good as a raid gear alternative? I also don't play the game specifically for gear, so it wouldn't make me unsub. High tier mythic + is a challenge I enjoy. The logistics of a raid are almost as hard as the raid content and some folks don't have time for it. I am ok with not being able to get raid gear I might want because I don't have to raid as much as the rest of my guild but I can do mythics and enjoy the time with my guys and gals. Gear is what comes as a result of completion but I do it for completion.

[odamienskii]

Maybe the game's lifespan would be longer if they actually had a lot of content. I remember a time when expansions actually had more than 10 hours of content.

- - - Updated - - -

Modern WoW is like The Elder Scrolls; each entry has less content than the last, culminating in a shitty latest game where they have to pad out the game with unfun filler nobody likes to obscure the fact that there you're paying $60 for 10 hours good content and hundreds of hours of shitty content.

There is more content now than there has been. the problem is its all blasted through in weeks because its so damn easy due to not only the bar being set mega low but also the best in game gear handed out like they are blues.

- - - Updated - - -

So is it exactly the time that concerns you? As in how long it takes a normal person to gear? Also, I will touch on the point I made previously that raid gear and mythic gear aren't equal and when the only thing you keep bringing up is ilvl that isn't a strong argument. Having something difficult to get is one thing but to me it seems like you want it to just take more time or have a lower chance of getting it.

If that's the case and you flip the coin, why would I want to waste double time for a lower chance to get a piece of gear that isn't as good as a raid gear alternative? I also don't play the game specifically for gear, so it wouldn't make me unsub. High tier mythic + is a challenge I enjoy. The logistics of a raid are almost as hard as the raid content and some folks don't have time for it. I am ok with not being able to get raid gear I might want because I don't have to raid as much as the rest of my guild but I can do mythics and enjoy the time with my guys and gals. Gear is what comes as a result of completion but I do it for completion.

there should be a solid structure where the best gear is harder to get, give people something to work towards, gradually introducing nerfs used to be a way to get people there, help them up, not flat out hand them the gear on a plate beginining in week 1. whats the point?

its like the taughast system when it was first introduced, 8 layers and not everyone could do it, then all the bad players were crying to blizzard "this isnt fair", so they nerfed it to accommadate the bads? what are the good players that enjoyed the challenge meant to do then? what was the point of having 8 layers? may aswell of just had one?

Entitled casuals have destroyd the game for everyone that plays more than them. people wanted to see raid content so they introduced lfr, why are lfr level players now crying about heroic/ mythic being too hard aswell? what are original players that raided in classic and tbc meant to do with the game thats dumbed down for dummies? thats right, they unsub.....llooooooong time ago.

The only ones left are the ones that use the game as a social interaction. the game itself is horseshit.

[terminaltrip421]

make legendary items ..........legendary
EVERYONE has a legendary, god damn everyone! remember when 1 or 2 ppl on your server had glaives? hes so lucky! im gonna keep attending raids hopefully il be in the 0.01%, if the current team at blizzard were in charge back then EVERYONE WOULD HAVE HAD GLAIVES, do you not see how that would make the whole sense of wonder around them die instantly?


Then again, i dont suspect many people that play wow currently even know what glaives are. if they did ...."iTS my gAME tOO i wANT gLAIVES bLIZZARD gIVE mE pLZ i HAVE jOB dNT hAVE tIEM" then blizzard would put in a system where all you need to do is collect 10piles of golden sheep shit over 2 weeks and you can have your glaives.

I have 8 60s and not 1 legendary between them. if the glaives were as weak as current legendarys are - relatively speaking - I'd say a couple weeks of just collecting sheep shit would be reasonable.

[odamienskii]

Look at you, trying to be smart. Telling me what I like doing in wow. I have played wow since vanilla and i've been through all there is to in this game. All of it. I dont mind that retail is what it is now, I find it ok enough for me. If I want hard and challenging content, I can go and do that. If not, there are other ways.

Lets get one thing clear - wow has never been hard or difficult. Time consuming? Yes, sure. That can be the case to now in retail if you choose to.

Im actually playing classic more now than retail. Yes, classic. The most dead version of wow. I would love if retail went that route to, but it never will. Retail is what it is, and I take it for what it is. Its decent fun for some time then it fades off. No worries, can come back at a later stage. Right now I enjoy the slow and peaceful leveling in a huge world - with a nice guild to accompany me.

I have never felt entitled for jack shit in this game. My perspective has always been that if I cant bother doing what it takes to get certain gear, titles, mounts, achivments or whatnot - thats on me and no one else. I have lost out on so many cool stuff cause I either didnt have time to do it, didnt want to or whatever other reason. But never have I demanded anything from this game. All I want is a decent and cool game to play. What other people obtain and get is not of my concern at all, congrats to them for doing it. I know alof of the titles/Mounts demands commitment.

Tbh it sounds like you shouldnt even play retail and either outright quit or take a long break. You dont have to play it.

And im not sure if Blizzard should shift the attention to those that play 40+ hours a week. I have been playing classic on/off since it relaunched and had a blast with it, but never came close to those hours. Like most people I would think.

People geared rather quickly up in classic too btw.

I too played classic a bit recently and i loved the slow pace of leveling, that is what wow was. i read somewhere it takes a seasoned leveler player preplanning etc 36hours to level from 0-60 in class, that is the original expac. there is no rush to get end game gear if your actually enjoying being in the game, leveling yor profs etc. i mean fuck sake they even simplified that now too, you only have to level the expansions profession not all the way. dumbed the game down to nothing.

Now it takes 16 hours to level from 1-60 in retail, eight expansions thats 2 hours per expansion. or just sit in dungeons all the way dont even see the world, the game has FULLY lost its identity.

Thats why wow is bleeding subs, all the geeks (i was one too) that were into the story like it was a religion, it doesnt exist anymore, its just turned in a free spoonfeeding game behind timegate for kids.

[InflaterMouse]

there should be a solid structure where the best gear is harder to get, give people something to work towards, gradually introducing nerfs used to be a way to get people there, help them up, not flat out hand them the gear on a plate beginining in week 1. whats the point?

its like the taughast system when it was first introduced, 8 layers and not everyone could do it, then all the bad players were crying to blizzard "this isnt fair", so they nerfed it to accommadate the bads? what are the good players that enjoyed the challenge meant to do then? what was the point of having 8 layers? may aswell of just had one?

Entitled casuals have destroyd the game for everyone that plays more than them. people wanted to see raid content so they introduced lfr, why are lfr level players now crying about heroic/ mythic being too hard aswell? what are original players that raided in classic and tbc meant to do with the game thats dumbed down for dummies? thats right, they unsub.....llooooooong time ago.

The only ones left are the ones that use the game as a social interaction. the game itself is horseshit.

There is a structure in place for this. There aren't tons of people raiding mythic raids right now successfully. Not sure where you are compiling your data from but it really doesn't make sense. There are structures in place that work fine that will absolutely put a gap between skilled dedicated players and players who aren't. And honestly most people that play this game, played this game in TBC and in vanilla are what you are calling casual. People that raid mythic raids and exceed mythic +15s are not the majority, they are a very small minority of the player base.

One thing that bypasses the structures set in place are the people that can buy carries with in game gold or with RL money outside the game. These people make up a tiny portion of the player base. I realize the game has issues but I don't see the one you are talking about. And keep in mind, a lot of people who scream about casuals this and casuals that are actually casuals themselves and don't even realize it.

The server first and world first raiders aren't in these forums bitching about what other players are doing or are not doing, they are raiding and knocking down bosses.