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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    baby killing? so what. haha i love you people
    Again, you all laughed off 600k people dying of Covid. You all laughed off synagogue and mosque shootings. You all laughed off war crimes. You all laugh off poverty and homelessness. So again, why should anyone believe you sincerely care if anyone, much less an unborn fetus, lives or dies?
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  2. #362
    I am Murloc! Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The two major issues you've raised above are spot on. And the Appellate Courts have already commented there are going to be issues with addressing the Constitutional issues because of the way it was written - and that the writing of it was done to purposely make constitutional challenges difficult.

    The issue of standing will more than likely kill at least part of the bill. The SCOTUS upheld the law last week in a tight 5-4 ruling, but that decision was based solely on how the abortion clinics sued, not on any substance or procedural issues - which the ruling acknowledged could be addressed in further suits.

    This is important because standing, i.e. people not specifically harmed by the bill, is being destroyed because of the "bounty" provision in the bill. Unfortunately, that issue can't be addressed by the courts until someone actually tries to claim said bounty. At which point the suit can move forward. What's interesting is that the way the law is written, anyone "assisting" with the abortion can be sued, to recover the $10,000. And one person could sue multiple people for the same "abortion event" - meaning, in your example for instance, the bus driver, the doctor, the nurse, the medical assistant, the receptionist - it's broad and unclear.

    And that's good for us.

    Broad and unclear laws are not favored by the court system - both liberal and conservative alike. Moreover, the issues of Standing becomes a huge problem - how are these people "affected" by the law. The answer is the Bounty - and bounties are not ok under the law, usually. Your second paragraph of analysis is spot on as to why. Because if Abortion Bounty's are ok, then Environmental Bounty's are ok, and Gun Bounty's are ok, etc. This would open the flood gate to bad law and horrible consequences.

    So at the end of the day, or in this case at the end of a couple years, some or all of the law will fall. But the worst, most long lasting provisions, i.e. 6 weeks, etc, will stand. And we are sure to also see Roe fall at the same time.
    So all it'll take it a person to try to collect. Until then, pregnant women who might be shitty mothers, reproductive health care providers, and friends of anyone with a uterus get to live in fear. Hopefully assholes greed gets THAT ball of shit flowing quickly.

    By then it'll be too late for some of them.
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  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    The words he's using...formulated sentence structure, doesn't sound as if it's from an older person. (..oh and if anyone wondered, I be 56yrs)
    And here I am thinking I am old for this place at 40.
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  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    And here I am thinking I am old for this place at 40.
    Whippersnapper. :P

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Whippersnapper. :P
    Well, if it helps with the cred, I am retired at 40, lol.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  6. #366
    Stood in the Fire tehdang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The two major issues you've raised above are spot on. And the Appellate Courts have already commented there are going to be issues with addressing the Constitutional issues because of the way it was written - and that the writing of it was done to purposely make constitutional challenges difficult.

    The issue of standing will more than likely kill at least part of the bill. The SCOTUS upheld the law last week in a tight 5-4 ruling, but that decision was based solely on how the abortion clinics sued, not on any substance or procedural issues - which the ruling acknowledged could be addressed in further suits.

    This is important because standing, i.e. people not specifically harmed by the bill, is being destroyed because of the "bounty" provision in the bill. Unfortunately, that issue can't be addressed by the courts until someone actually tries to claim said bounty. At which point the suit can move forward. What's interesting is that the way the law is written, anyone "assisting" with the abortion can be sued, to recover the $10,000. And one person could sue multiple people for the same "abortion event" - meaning, in your example for instance, the bus driver, the doctor, the nurse, the medical assistant, the receptionist - it's broad and unclear.

    And that's good for us.

    Broad and unclear laws are not favored by the court system - both liberal and conservative alike. Moreover, the issues of Standing becomes a huge problem - how are these people "affected" by the law. The answer is the Bounty - and bounties are not ok under the law, usually. Your second paragraph of analysis is spot on as to why. Because if Abortion Bounty's are ok, then Environmental Bounty's are ok, and Gun Bounty's are ok, etc. This would open the flood gate to bad law and horrible consequences.

    So at the end of the day, or in this case at the end of a couple years, some or all of the law will fall. But the worst, most long lasting provisions, i.e. 6 weeks, etc, will stand. And we are sure to also see Roe fall at the same time.
    I don’t think the ruling on an injunction really gives enough insight into the question of whether Roe (or more precisely Casey) will fall. The bill was designed to evade injunctions by backloading injured parties and cutting out state officials. The true constitutionality never got a ruling. The 5-4 is properly seen as a non-action or a procedural action, and majority pointed this out.

    On a slightly related point, the Supreme Court already agreed to pick up the case about the Mississippi Law (15 weeks mostly banned) this year. We’ll be hearing what scotus thinks in that case whether or not another case under Texas law makes it to the Supreme Court’s shadow docket in the near future.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  7. #367
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    So all it'll take it a person to try to collect. Until then, pregnant women who might be shitty mothers, reproductive health care providers, and friends of anyone with a uterus get to live in fear. Hopefully assholes greed gets THAT ball of shit flowing quickly.

    By then it'll be too late for some of them.
    Plus, this whole thing a yuge step backwards. Because we're all arguing/discussing the "bounty" portion of the new law, meanwhile abortion/reproductive rights have been set back decades, and we aren't even there yet for fighting/beating-back (in the larger sense). Basically, the Neo-Con GQP has pushed the Center even more right, and even if we win one of these battles (the bounty one), we've still lost the larger war. Possibly forever - or at least for a generation.

    But yeah, for many, many thousands of families, it will be far too late. And the GQP has made it positively clear they could care less about a life once it's born.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I don’t think the ruling on an injunction really gives enough insight into the question of whether Roe (or more precisely Casey) will fall. The bill was designed to evade injunctions by backloading injured parties and cutting out state officials. The true constitutionality never got a ruling. The 5-4 is properly seen as a non-action or a procedural action, and majority pointed this out.

    On a slightly related point, the Supreme Court already agreed to pick up the case about the Mississippi Law (15 weeks mostly banned) this year. We’ll be hearing what scotus thinks in that case whether or not another case under Texas law makes it to the Supreme Court’s shadow docket in the near future.
    Exactly - and I said as much. This was just a perfunctory ruling on a procedural issue more than about any kind of merits.

    With those two cases coming up the pipeline, Roe/Casey is almost certain to fall. Barret was literally a Handmaiden and Kavanaugh doesn't think women have a right to tampons. So abortion as a nationally protected right is done (it should fall in late 2024/early 2025). And we won't get it back, if we ever do, for decades.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Again, you all laughed off 600k people dying of Covid. You all laughed off synagogue and mosque shootings. You all laughed off war crimes. You all laugh off poverty and homelessness. So again, why should anyone believe you sincerely care if anyone, much less an unborn fetus, lives or dies?
    We need a catch phrase for "he just wants to watch the world burn", because sometimes it seems really apt.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Again, you all laughed off 600k people dying of Covid. You all laughed off synagogue and mosque shootings. You all laughed off war crimes. You all laugh off poverty and homelessness. So again, why should anyone believe you sincerely care if anyone, much less an unborn fetus, lives or dies?
    He doesn't care. Conservatives don't care. Republicans don't care.fuck even people claiming to be Christian don't care. The claim to care about an unborn child, rather a zygote/fetus while being in favor of war, the death penalty, punishing the poor for the audacity to be poor.

    It's all about cruelty and keeping women "in their place". So if any so-called "man" who supports this better be 100% in favor of being locked into a chastity belt until marriage since pre marital sex leads to unwanted babies and is a sin. The should also be in favor of the state forcing the man to fully support the child until adulthood. 1 missed payment shall see 15 years in prison, assets seized, and forced castration so he can never reproduce again.

  9. #369
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    they're causing major problems for themselves and the potential kid if they don't take tests. tests work well before 6 weeks.
    This is true, and I think women or men more proactive in their general health especially when sexually active is important.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    time to incentivize families and criminalize adultery
    I agree with this, although that really isn't the material issue here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Again, you all laughed off 600k people dying of Covid. You all laughed off synagogue and mosque shootings. You all laughed off war crimes. You all laugh off poverty and homelessness. So again, why should anyone believe you sincerely care if anyone, much less an unborn fetus, lives or dies?
    You hit the nail on the head, I am a liberal and far left, but I am also a Protestant Christian and until this issue was made a political neither the Catholic or Christian Church got involved in this matter until relatively about the 1950s.

    A lot of the advocates against abortion are White Supremacist's, That is how it became a political issue.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  10. #370
    Herald of the Titans bladeXcrasher's Avatar
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    Law working as intended. 3 out of 4 clinics in San Antonio have stopped providing abortion services because of this law.

  11. #371
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Country is going to shit faster than anticipated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  12. #372
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    He doesn't care. Conservatives don't care. Republicans don't care.fuck even people claiming to be Christian don't care. The claim to care about an unborn child, rather a zygote/fetus while being in favor of war, the death penalty, punishing the poor for the audacity to be poor.

    It's all about cruelty and keeping women "in their place". So if any so-called "man" who supports this better be 100% in favor of being locked into a chastity belt until marriage since pre marital sex leads to unwanted babies and is a sin. The should also be in favor of the state forcing the man to fully support the child until adulthood. 1 missed payment shall see 15 years in prison, assets seized, and forced castration so he can never reproduce again.

    I do and I am a Christian and I care, in fact I am 100% Against abortion, I hate it, I hate the entire idea of it, the entire issue makes me seriously uncomfortable, HOWEVER I follow the science and it is that science that allows me to while I disagree with Abortion, I DO NOT agree with making it ILLEGAL similar to criminalizing Drug Addicts.

    It's a Medical and Health issue, I think the laws as they are written are sufficient that abortion is legal up and until a fetus becomes a viable human being.


    And Yes there are some very good arguments against abortion and in support of Texas I think are persuasive but over all they aren't

    Trying to stay away from any forbidden topics and only making short points as it pertains to the Texas law.


    Governor Gregg Abbot of Texas is an idiot and has committed as much over reach as step as Governor DeSantis in Florida, or Newsom in California or Whitmer in Michigan.

    The Only difference is simply where you align politically. If you can't mandate fucking mask to protect others from an deadly infection, you sure as shit shouldn't be allowed to force anyone to term with a pregnancy they do not want period.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  13. #373
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Country is going to shit faster than anticipated.
    To some people, this is improving the Country.
    I don't see how, but people believe these are better.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
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  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Governor Gregg Abbot of Texas is an idiot and has committed as much over reach as step as Governor DeSantis in Florida, or Newsom in California or Whitmer in Michigan.

    The Only difference is simply where you align politically.
    Citation please.

    There are huge differences between them. Two of them stand on the side of radical evil. Two of them don't. I would like to see this "list" of "over reach" by Newsom and Whitmer.

  15. #375
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Citation please.

    There are huge differences between them. Two of them stand on the side of radical evil. Two of them don't. I would like to see this "list" of "over reach" by Newsom and Whitmer.

    Well I support Newsom and Whitmer. And I was referring to the vaccine mandates, lockdowns and mask.

    Again which I agree with. My point is the same people who bitched about them support guys like Desabtis and Abbot
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Well I support Newsom and Whitmer. And I was referring to the vaccine mandates, lockdowns and mask.

    Again which I agree with. My point is the same people who bitched about them support guys like Desabtis and Abbot
    Those aren't over-reach. Those are responses to emergencies which is something we empower our governments to do. Yes, that can be abused but I don't see Whitmer and Newsom doing that. A malign response to an emergency would be DeSantis and his Regeneron scheme.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Well I support Newsom and Whitmer. And I was referring to the vaccine mandates, lockdowns and mask.

    Again which I agree with. My point is the same people who bitched about them support guys like Desabtis and Abbot
    It was only considered overreach because the GOP controls the congress and curtailed the same powers they gave Republican governors. So not an overreach in MI at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Those aren't over-reach. Those are responses to emergencies which is something we empower our governments to do. Yes, that can be abused but I don't see Whitmer and Newsom doing that. A malign response to an emergency would be DeSantis and his Regeneron scheme.
    Overreach was removing control of city governance from citizens because the state said they were bad at running the city.

  18. #378
    Legendary! unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    It was only considered overreach because the GOP controls the congress and curtailed the same powers they gave Republican governors. So not an overreach in MI at all.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Overreach was removing control of city governance from citizens because the state said they were bad at running the city.
    All the while screaming that DC shouldn’t tell the states what to do.
    Blessed are the fornicates, may we bend down to be their whores. Blessed are the rich, may our labor deliver them more.
    Blessed are the envious; bless the slothful, the wrathful, the vain. Blessed are the gluttonous, may they feast us to famine and war.
    What of the pious, the pure of heart, the peaceful, the meek, the mourning, and the merciful? All doomed, all doomed

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    All the while screaming that DC shouldn’t tell the states what to do.
    Yup. Anyone who is or identifies as conservative has zero credibility. Not one.

  20. #380
    The Department of Justice has sued the state of Texas over a new state law that bans abortions after about six weeks, before most people realize they are pregnant, all but halting the procedure in the country's second-largest state.

    The lawsuit says the state enacted the law "in open defiance of the Constitution."

    "The act is clearly unconstitutional under long-standing Supreme Court precedent," Attorney General Merrick Garland said during a press conference Thursday afternoon. "Those precedents hold, in the words of Planned Parenthood v. Casey that 'regardless of whether exceptions are made for particular circumstances, a state may not prohibit any woman from making the ultimate decision to terminate her pregnancy before viability.'"

    The Justice Department is seeking a permanent injunction against the law.
    https://www.npr.org/2021/09/09/10354...m_campaign=npr

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