To all the Bellulars, Asmogolds, Preaches, QoL'ers and Fans that want to Design WOW.

[Yarathir]

I agree. You also need to be a chef to be able to decline eating a plate of shit because you aren't qualified to judge it.

[Dracullus]

That classic fits much better:

[Xilurm]

You post this in a forum where people are going to defend Blizzard's shitty decisions to their dying breath...

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I agree. You also need to be a chef to be able to decline eating a plate of shit because you aren't qualified to judge it.

And yet according to people here that's exactly what has to happen.

It's so fucking annoying. Why should Blizzard get to decide what players should and shouldn't like?

[Yarathir]

You post this in a forum where people are going to defend Blizzard's shitty decisions to their dying breath...

Ehh, to be fair. Plenty of people on the criticism train. The defenders have grown fewer in number with every year, but that just makes the remaining ones a more die-hard iron core that can't be penetrated.

And yet according to people here that's exactly what has to happen.

It's so fucking annoying. Why should Blizzard get to decide what players should and shouldn't like?

Blind adherence and appeal to authority is the last line of defense.

[monkfailz]

I love Homer.

[Lolites]

And as parts of the bridge are collapsing, you are proven right.

actualy, no, you are proven they were wrong, that doesnt automaticaly make you right... your idea might end up being even worse than what they did...

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Fans are great at pointing out what doesn't work..

are they?
there is a thread about how whole gearing system of SL is bad bcs the OP of that thread didnt get dagger from sylvanas yet...

[Selah]

OP, if you really want to understand why community feedback is so important and what it's like for the devs, might is suggest the Noclip documentary about FFXIV. They interview the devs who do a fantastic job examining that kind of relationship and why it's so critical and important. It's a really good watch and extremely relevant to WoW right now.

https://youtu.be/Xs0yQKI7Yw4

[Skirdus]

This comparison doesn't even work. It's not going to cost Blizzard more money to add basic QoL features that most of the playerbase has been wanting for years now

[draugril]

No this would imply that Blizzard listen or talk with the community :P

They do provide venues for feedback.

And they instantly discard that feedback once provided.

[Darknessvamp]

Engineers: "What do you want?"

"Iunno"

Yep. That's definitely true.

Also Engineers: "Maybe a built in video game will keep them entertained?"

"You're fired."

Engineers: "How about an echo chamber with restraints and muzzles?"

"Bulls-eye!"

I don't know, that sounds a lot like Blizzard.

[unbound]

I always get a chuckle out of such attitudes.

It's like going to a restaurant where a chef makes truly atrocious meals. When the customers complain about how awful it is, the chef takes the same attitude. If you are such a great chef, why aren't you making the food? /eyeroll

People don't need to be game designers to know what they enjoy and what they don't. People don't need to be in the industry to provide critical feedback.

I don't need to be an auto mechanic to know that my car shouldn't be leaking oil all over the pavement.

[Relapses]

Also Engineers: "Maybe a built in video game will keep them entertained?"

"You're fired."

Engineers: "How about an echo chamber with restraints and muzzles?"

"Bulls-eye!"

I don't know, that sounds a lot like Blizzard.

Good thing all WoW players agree on what the word "entertainment" means, eh?

Come on.

[Calfredd]

You post this in a forum where people are going to defend Blizzard's shitty decisions to their dying breath...

Are you sure you mean MMO-Champion? Pretty sure MMO-Champ is the place where you'd go to see people find ways to complain if Blizzard managed to cure cancer.

[Lolites]

When the customers complain about how awful it is, the chef takes the same attitude. If you are such a great chef, why aren't you making the food?

personaly, i dont have problem with people saying they dont like something, i have problem with people who:
1. claim NOBODY likes it
2. claim they know HOW to make it better (and usualy add their idea which would make it thousand times worse)

thats basicaly my issue with feedback from people, saying "i dont like this system" (and in rare cases saying specifics WHY) is good feedback,
saying "this system is shit and nobody likes it and they should do it how I WANT IT, bcs that will make it better for everyone" is bullshit...
thats basicaly what Homers brother did in this episode, they told him what thousands of people said, and he said they are wrong bcs ONE PERSON said otherwise...

people need to realise thier opinions are not facts and that just bcs they provide "feedback" doesnt make it necesarily useful

[Relapses]

Are you sure you mean MMO-Champion? Pretty sure MMO-Champ is the place where you'd go to see people find ways to complain if Blizzard managed to cure cancer.

"gg blizz, cured cancer but can't balance rouges in pvp KEKW"

Every once and awhile decent conversation happens, though it's fewer and farer between these days.

[Calfredd]

"gg blizz, cured cancer but can't balance rouges in pvp KEKW"

Every once and awhile decent conversation happens, though it's fewer and farer between these days.

And I dare say it was already rare to begin with.

[Speedlance]

Obviously they shouldn't listen to those guys on how their game is gonna be. What I miss in wow is something valuable to do outside raids, m+ and pvp. As with many others I was crossing my fingers for island expeditions for exactly that. But everything blizzard makes ends up only being to provide benefits for raids, m+ and pvp.

[RoKPaNda]

I honestly haven't been paying any attention to what those folks have been saying, but...

We are literally at three expansions in a row where Blizzard introduced very specific game mechanics that players said are going to cause problems. Blizzard doesn't listen and marches forward anyway, and then reverses course within the expansion to make QOL changes.

Everyone's a Homer right now, and Blizzard might be the most Homerish of us all.

I'm not saying Blizzard makes decisions, but there's a reason why no company in existence implements fixes the way the community envisions them, and that's because the community doesn't understand game design. There's also a reason why people with experience from the community (Ion) get hired by Blizzard, and people without experience (the streamers) don't.

BFA was a clusterfuck because Blizzard DID listen to the community. There was a very specific problem where Heroic NH was tuned around having your artifact maxed out which was a massive grind even if you were no lifing the game. Players complained about that. All the good shit was locked behind the artifact grind and players complained about that. RNG legendaries were RNG so players complained about that. Players complained about TF without understanding how rare it would be to get a Mythic equivalent piece to titanforge from a lower raid. With BFA Blizzard made Azerite frontloaded to remove the grind aspect of it, they removed RNG legendaries which made the community less interested in running any content, they introduced restrictions on TF which also made people less interested in running any content aside from whatever the highest raid they could do at the time was. Listening to community feedback there made BFA boring as shit.

They listened to player feedback with loot is just loot too, because the feedback they got was "It was better in Classic / BC / WLK / etc" and when they released Classic people were excited for the loot. So they figured shit yeah lets make loot like that in retail. The problem is that they implemented that plus LESS loot at the same time which made things boring as fuck. Plus a weapon upgrade isn't as exciting as it was. If you're going to copy a more popular loot system you have to copy everything about that loot system. They took the worst parts and left out the good parts. Anima and conduits are a totally Blizzard fuck up though. Maybe at that point it's just throwing ideas at the wall because the community has hated everything you've done for the past 17 years.

Blizzard needs new devs on the dev team with experience. The last thing they should ever do is listen to content creators.

[draugril]

personaly, i dont have problem with people saying they dont like something, i have problem with people who:
1. claim NOBODY likes it
2. claim they know HOW to make it better (and usualy add their idea which would make it thousand times worse)

thats basicaly my issue with feedback from people, saying "i dont like this system" (and in rare cases saying specifics WHY) is good feedback,
saying "this system is shit and nobody likes it and they should do it how I WANT IT, bcs that will make it better for everyone" is bullshit

people need to realise thier opinions are not facts and that just bcs they provide "feedback" doesnt make it necesarily useful

You need a little of both. Criticism should never be offered without a suggested solution. Otherwise, it's just whining. But you do need to acknowledge that your solution is simply a proposed option and not Gospel.

[Glazey]

Lots of delusional takes in this here threader.

Blizzard creates the system, players give the feedback, Blizzard adjusts the system to the feedback. This is how it should work and it hasn't. Instead, they give the us the systems, take the feedback, and place it on a text document meant for later in the expansion.

Also, this whole "players can't agree on a single thing" is true, but that's true in every scenario in every game that's ever existed. To make such a dumb, blanket statement shows how far down the rabbit hole you're trying to go to defend shit decisions.