To all the Bellulars, Asmogolds, Preaches, QoL'ers and Fans that want to Design WOW.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

I don't understand how Blizzard is so incompetent. Listening to fans or not can't they just make some competent expansions like wotlk or mop or even legion?

[Laurathansal]

The actual game most people want back is Vanilla - TBC - WotLK. Back then, Blizzard listened but did their own thing while taking into account player feedback, and the results were great. Feedback is what it is: Feedback. It should not be directly funneled into an end product, it must be interpreted properly.

[Luxeley]

If anything, Blizzard is Homer, the crew making the car are their passionated devs, the fans are the people in the crowd, and Herbert is Activision in this video.

Classic episode though

Dead accurate. Finally someone, other than me, understands what is more than likely going on at Activision/ Blizzard.

[Sin of Pride]

You need to filter every person trough their circumstances and what they actually are. Asmon for exmaple is a guy that has an army of online servants and plays more than normal people with a functioning live do. That means his opinions on certain topics are often negatively tilted, especially when it comes to topics like exclusivity, time investment, social feedback (posing), etc. since he frankly lacks the perspective of someone who doesn't want to play the game for their livelyhood and doesn't have an army of boot-lickers at their beck an' call. As long as you account for that some other stuff he says is not without merrit from what I've seen of the few bits I've seen from him.

The same thing is true for preach, he has massive endgame raiiding bias as well as a popularity bonus he tends to forget when it comes to group content.

It isn't hard to join those communities at least from the raiding side... pvpers are weird and what little ive seen dipping my toe into that viper pit I can understand people's hesitation.

With Preach though his opinions come more from someone who is always in a high progressed raid guild. The culture of those guilds are so utterly alien compared to the screaming rl who can't kill more then 4 mythic bosses that its difficult to consider they are both raid communities.

[Flade]

Are you online doctor who can diagnose illnesses through youtube videos?

Yes. I am.

[Mendzia]

Yes. I am.

Why do you waste your potential on WoW youtubers?
You are Nobel prize worthy after presenting this ability to the world.

[Lolites]

I love those people because they dare to speak the truth on the shortcomings of the game that the fanboys can't handle

nope, they dont speak "the truth", they speak their opinion...
they are entitled to their opinion, and when they dont like something they are free to say it, BUT same goes for other side, the "fanboys" as you (clearly biased) call them are ALSO entitled to their opinion, and if they like something they are free to say they do, your disagreement with them doesnt make them wrong...

[Saltysquidoon]

The same thing is true for preach, he has massive endgame raiiding bias as well as a popularity bonus he tends to forget when it comes to group content.

I'm not following this jab at Preach here in his opinions on group content. He's boosted himself through M+ multiple times on multiple secret characters to prove you absolutely can do it completely solo (if you've got the skill).

[Flade]

Why do you waste your potential on WoW youtubers?
You are Nobel prize worthy after presenting this ability to the world.

Thank you! thank you, saving the world one autistic streamer at a time.

[Zantera]

Regarding the "If you're not good at the game your opinion doesn't matter" discussion I feel like every opinion matters but when you got a ton of viewers who actually care and will follow your command then you want someone who knows what they are talking about giving their opinion. It's the same way when you watch a Football game or something and you want someone analyzing it who actually knows the game and knows what they are talking about, and just not a loud Joe Schmoe from the street.

I don't mind someone like Preach who's played at a very high level for years giving his thoughts on raiding, I don't mind someone like Dratnos who is doing high m+ giving his thoughts on dungeons and heck even someone like Asmongold giving his thoughts on the 'overall' state of the game because I think they've all played a lot and they are pretty passionate about it so it makes it interesting. I don't get why people care about Bellular at all though because the guy has accomplished nothing in the game and he went from making your average 'news of the week' videos in the spirit of Hazel (but worse) to making clickbait flame videos trashing the game for the last 5 years because that's what gets views. Even if the game would magically become perfect he would still just post his clickbaity shit.

[Sormine]

"lol you made a food analogy so you are wrong and dumb!"

Food is the easiest thing for humans to relate to. Anyone can relate to it. That's why food analogies are so common and often the first go-to choice. Shoo.

Just because you put quotation marks around it and paraphrased a little bit doesn't make it wrong.

Food analogies are dumb and if you're earnestly using them to make a convincing argument you need help.

[Empower]

Regarding the "If you're not good at the game your opinion doesn't matter" discussion I feel like every opinion matters but when you got a ton of viewers who actually care and will follow your command then you want someone who knows what they are talking about giving their opinion. It's the same way when you watch a Football game or something and you want someone analyzing it who actually knows the game and knows what they are talking about, and just not a loud Joe Schmoe from the street.

I don't mind someone like Preach who's played at a very high level for years giving his thoughts on raiding, I don't mind someone like Dratnos who is doing high m+ giving his thoughts on dungeons and heck even someone like Asmongold giving his thoughts on the 'overall' state of the game because I think they've all played a lot and they are pretty passionate about it so it makes it interesting. I don't get why people care about Bellular at all though because the guy has accomplished nothing in the game and he went from making your average 'news of the week' videos in the spirit of Hazel (but worse) to making clickbait flame videos trashing the game for the last 5 years because that's what gets views. Even if the game would magically become perfect he would still just post his clickbaity shit.

I mean not every player has valuable insights to offer. Those who screamed " meaningful choice" with covenants had such a lack of understanding of the game their opinions held no productive value.

Its hubris to think that if your just some random joe who doesn't invest time or effort into something you have useful insights on the topic.

[Sormine]

You have to be an engineer to critique the quality of a road.

There, Rule Number #2 - it always degrades into construction working analogies. Either that or the dude you quote was right and used a perfect analogy.

It's just a cliche that always gets used and I'm certainly not the first to point it out.

If you're upset that a dumb, unconvincing and overused argument gets called out then all I can say is 'stay mad'

[Soon-TM]

Thank you! thank you, saving the world one autistic streamer at a time.

So you are saying that autistic people are folks the world should be "saved" of? $&#@ing reported.

[Sormine]

It's just the most common analogy for those matters.

Feel free to replace it with "You have to be a car engineer to rate a car" or "You have to be a video game developer to give feedback".

It's an overused analogy and basically has been a meme for ~4 years. And it doesn't just get used when talking about critiquing design philosophies. I've seen people appeal to arguments about McRibs when discussing bringing Classic WoW back. You can't tell me that's not hilarious.

[Soon-TM]

Its hubris to think that if your just some random joe who doesn't invest time or effort into something you have useful insights on the topic.

It is also hubris to think that you know a lot about what makes a fun game just because you excel mechanically at it. It would be like saying that you can't be an aircraft engineer unless you are a stellar pilot.

[Empower]

It is also hubris to think that you know a lot about what makes a fun game just because you excel mechanically at it. It would be like saying that you can't be an aircraft engineer unless you are a stellar pilot.

I'm not talking about fun as that is subject. I am talking about understanding what functionally works. I've yet to hear a sensible version of covenants from people who like the idea.

It's just restrictions for the sake of being restricted seems like a fetish thing.

[Kralljin]

It's an overused analogy and basically has been a meme for ~4 years. And it doesn't just get used when talking about critiquing design philosophies.

I think the actual meme is to resort to that logic and dismiss opinions because players aren't developers.

[Sormine]

I think the actual meme is to resort to that logic and dismiss opinions because players aren't developers.

I don't understand this post

[Zantera]

It is also hubris to think that you know a lot about what makes a fun game just because you excel mechanically at it. It would be like saying that you can't be an aircraft engineer unless you are a stellar pilot.

I think a key thing a lot of 'complainers' lack is the kind of thinking where you follow the logic the entire way to see what would actually happen if they made certain changes. For example there might be a complaint about "They need to triple the droprate of gear" but then if Blizz did you might reach a point where gear feels useless and non rewarding because everyone has it.

No matter how good or bad you are at the game, there always seems to be a lot of complaints in that spirit of "they need to fix X" without any thought about what that change would actually mean. As someone who has played this game for about 15 years, I feel like one of the most common mistakes Blizz has done over the years is changing things to fix problems - only to create new problems and it's a snowball effect where a tiny change they made 'for the better' 5 years prior has now escalated into a much bigger problem that they are desperately trying to fix.