To all the Bellulars, Asmogolds, Preaches, QoL'ers and Fans that want to Design WOW.

[Stockers]

wow has run its course. time to put a bullet in its head. end it. put it out of its misery. take it off life support.

[Varodoc]

But, isn't WoW currently designed by someone who was literally a raid leader, so a normal player like Bellular, Asmongold, etc.?

But should I be surprised that an obvious bait thread went on for 40 pages and is still going? Not really, No. It's MMO-Champion after all.

[OrangeJuice]

The only efamous people I can think that might have done a good job at Blizzard are Neilyo, Reckful, and Tosan. Bigmoran can go on that list too. Everyone else is just an average joe like you and me who might have 1-2 ideas for a specific area but couldn't make the game better. Would've been smart of Blizzard to just listen to feedback and think about what people are suggesting and they could've made an amazing game with the collective feedback for all areas.

[Dioporco]

The game is dying, people are playing TBCC and hyping for SoM, while Live has literally no content in 9.1.5 to face Endwalker or any new game.

Sic transit gloria mundi

[TheTaurenChieftain]

But, isn't WoW currently designed by someone who was literally a raid leader, so a normal player like Bellular, Asmongold, etc.?

But should I be surprised that an obvious bait thread went on for 40 pages and is still going? Not really, No. It's MMO-Champion after all.

That's the thing! People who raid or do Mythic+ don't represent the majority of players. People doing progression-oriented content or competitive content are often not the majority in many games. So saying that a raid leader represents the majority of players is simply false.

The percentage of people that raid in WoW may have grown since Classic, but the majority of players didn't do this content back in the day and doesn't do it now. And now all the other content EXCEPT raiding is simply not that good. If you think that the average WoW players does M+15 runs or raids every week, you are mistaken.

I personally think this is exactly the problem with WoW. That the whole game solely focusses on raiding and M+ right now. This is why all the casual players who originally liked open world content, questing etc. already left.

This is why WoW Classic got so popular. People loved open world content and riding around Azeroth and exploring stuff.
The current game doesn't encourage exploring and excitement anymore. It is simply a dungeon/raid simulator, where you queue for stuff and wait for the next queue to pop instead of exploring a digital world.

[crusadernero]

That's the thing! People who raid or do Mythic+ don't represent the majority of players. People doing progression-oriented content or competitive content are often not the majority in many games. So saying that a raid leader represents the majority of players is simply false.

The percentage of people that raid in WoW may have grown since Classic, but the majority of players didn't do this content back in the day and doesn't do it now. And now all the other content EXCEPT raiding is simply not that good. If you think that the average WoW players does M+15 runs or raids every week, you are mistaken.

I personally think this is exactly the problem with WoW. That the whole game solely focusses on raiding and M+ right now. This is why all the casual players who originally liked open world content, questing etc. already left.

This is why WoW Classic got so popular. People loved open world content and riding around Azeroth and exploring stuff.
The current game doesn't encourage exploring and excitement anymore. It is simply a dungeon/raid simulator, where you queue for stuff and wait for the next queue to pop instead of exploring a digital world.

The only reason raiding still is a thing comes from LFR, not m+ or mythic raids. As you said, most people dont do high m+ keys or mythic raids. They never will do either. LFR has made sure the number of people doing the raids are kept up.

And I agree with you - this game should be alot more than m+ & mythic raids.

[draugril]

Sic transit gloria mundi

There's a phrase I would have never expected to come up on these forums.

[Osmeric]

There's a phrase I would have never expected to come up on these forums.

I think latin memes are best memes, but de gustibus non est disputandum.

[Aggressive]

But, isn't WoW currently designed by someone who was literally a raid leader, so a normal player like Bellular, Asmongold, etc.?

But should I be surprised that an obvious bait thread went on for 40 pages and is still going? Not really, No. It's MMO-Champion after all.

This right here. What makes me laugh about this click bait thread is that the opinions here isn't the streamers making the game bad. Shit.........Blizzard is doing that to thier own selves at this very moment. Can't blame anyone else for that shit.

[SoundOfGuns]

And on that same token, people can not enjoy WoW.

But that doesn't mean that their opinions on how the game should be made are particularly informed or relevant. Hell, we still have to deal with the player-driven "remove flying" nonsense every expansion, and the removal of flight is one of the most fatiguing things that turns WoW into a chore. You burn people out early on in the expansion cycle because it takes so damn long to do anything. But hey, that was a design choice driven by player whining circa end-of-MoP.


I don't follow the WoW youtubers... they all seem like generally insufferable people who have found there are more clicks to be had from the people that played WoW for a long time and treat it like some bitter ex, and tailor their content as such. As such, the fact that they're some schmuck with a youtube channel doesn't make their opinions particularly informed or valid.

To be fair... the "remove flying"-thing is only still an issue for the same reason the rest of the game is full of it now. They at some point simply stopped listening. But im also not convinced that they ever really did this due to the players, rather than them wanting to remove it to begin with and using that as an excuse once the backlash grew.

[Kaleredar]

To be fair... the "remove flying"-thing is only still an issue for the same reason the rest of the game is full of it now. They at some point simply stopped listening. But im also not convinced that they ever really did this due to the players, rather than them wanting to remove it to begin with and using that as an excuse once the backlash grew.

I always got the sense that it was due to them listening to players. At least following the attitude on the forums, it really seemed to be something that cropped up around the middle/end of MoP, when they would have been working on WoD.

I really don't think it was a decision Blizzard would have made themselves, as evidenced by the first four expansions having flying unlockable without any extra fuss or muss. People loved it in BC. It was integral to leveling in WotLK. People at blizzcon cheered when old world flying was unveiled for Cataclysm. And MoP was a fine expansion with flying unlockable at max level for a simple fee.

However, them not switching back is definitely a mistake. I don't know if that's their own pride, the notion that it artificially inflates content by making it all needlessly take longer, or the few but vocal holdout players that still thinking flying "ruins immersion" or somesuch nonsense. Maybe a combination of all three.

[xcyan]

So people say most people dont raid or do m+ and the game shouldnt be designed purely for that, but how should it be made, how would you make the game different? No flame or trolling meant, maybe cus i started seriously playing in bfa but i just dont get what there is to do at max level except to raid, pvp and do m+. Why would you do quests when you dont get xp anymore at max level? How did people do dungeons before m+ when it never got harder the higher the key level, wasnt that boring? Maybe im just damaged from having started playing when i did I just honestly dont get what there is to do in an mmorpg at max level except to do end game content like raiding and m+, and maybe rp for people who are into that.

Quests just for the sake of questing? And mount farming i think i is a new thing for the most part since its only once we got some expansions behind us that you could go back and solo old content.

[TheTaurenChieftain]

So people say most people dont raid or do m+ and the game shouldnt be designed purely for that, but how should it be made, how would you make the game different? No flame or trolling meant, maybe cus i started seriously playing in bfa but i just dont get what there is to do at max level except to raid, pvp and do m+. Why would you do quests when you dont get xp anymore at max level? How did people do dungeons before m+ when it never got harder the higher the key level, wasnt that boring? Maybe im just damaged from having started playing when i did I just honestly dont get what there is to do in an mmorpg at max level except to do end game content like raiding and m+, and maybe rp for people who are into that.

Quests just for the sake of questing? And mount farming i think i is a new thing for the most part since its only once we got some expansions behind us that you could go back and solo old content.

Crafting for example was a big part of the game during Classic and TBC. Right now crafting is almost irrelevant.

Second, farming reputation from different factions was a also a huge part back in vanilla. It still is now, but back then factions offered something interesting and unique for everyone.

Also open world content wasn't so easy and unchallenging like it is now. It was a lot more engaging because there was a chance for the average gamer to die by participating in open world content. Things especially start to become a chore if they are too easy. Why do open world content if it is unengaging like it is now. There are a lot of people who want challenging open world content back. The only ones who don't want that are M+ players and raiders, because they only play the game for M+ and raids.

But overall the game doesn't even have to bring back old systems from classic. There are so many forms of content which could be added, like jumping puzzles, exploration content, more challenging open world single-player and group content, housing, transmog achievments. Also the game could focus a lot more on an open world MMO by inter-connecting more zones with each other instead of making so much instanced content. Tbh I really want to go back to Azeroth. Maybe add a new area like "Dragon Isles" in the next addon and let us explore Azeroth again.

[Kallisto]

Crafting for example was a big part of the game during Classic and TBC. Right now crafting is almost irrelevant.

Did it offer max level gear and rewards equal to the end game raid at the time? No then it is irrelevant and not a good excuse to talk about try again.

Second, farming reputation from different factions was a also a huge part back in vanilla. It still is now, but back then factions offered something interesting and unique for everyone.

Did it offer max level gear and rewards equal to the end game raid at the time? No then it is irrelevant and not a good excuse to talk about try again.

Also open world content wasn't so easy and unchallenging like it is now. It was a lot more engaging because there was a chance for the average gamer to die by participating in open world content. Things especially start to become a chore if they are too easy. Why do open world content if it is unengaging like it is now. There are a lot of people who want challenging open world content back. The only ones who don't want that are M+ players and raiders, because they only play the game for M+ and raids.

The open world in classic and vanilla was ALWAYS so easy you had to basically be so fucking stupid or actually attempt at dying to die. It was never engaging.

But overall the game doesn't even have to bring back old systems from classic. There are so many forms of content which could be added, like jumping puzzles, exploration content, more challenging open world single-player and group content, housing, transmog achievments. Also the game could focus a lot more on an open world MMO by inter-connecting more zones with each other instead of making so much instanced content. Tbh I really want to go back to Azeroth. Maybe add a new area like "Dragon Isles" in the next addon and let us explore Azeroth again.

If they don't offer best gear then there's no point and if max raiders cry "they have to do it." then maybe they should instead of going after blizzard turn on their raid leaders and go "No go fuck yourselves."

[jackofwind]

Did it offer max level gear and rewards equal to the end game raid at the time? No then it is irrelevant and not a good excuse to talk about try again.

Someone never farmed Cenarion rep for Earthstrike.

[TheTaurenChieftain]

Did it offer max level gear and rewards equal to the end game raid at the time? No then it is irrelevant and not a good excuse to talk about try again.




Did it offer max level gear and rewards equal to the end game raid at the time? No then it is irrelevant and not a good excuse to talk about try again.



The open world in classic and vanilla was ALWAYS so easy you had to basically be so fucking stupid or actually attempt at dying to die. It was never engaging.



If they don't offer best gear then there's no point and if max raiders cry "they have to do it." then maybe they should instead of going after blizzard turn on their raid leaders and go "No go fuck yourselves."

Your comment exactly describes the kind of feedback which Blizzard should absolutely NOT listen to in my opinion. This Go!Go!Go! Max Gear mentality is the exact reason why WoW is the way it is now.

I think Blizzard should concentrate a lot more on player interaction and community building. This Go!Go!Go! mentality will push people away from WoW, especially new players.

If your post demonstrates the same mentality that a lot of Mythic+ players and raiders have (which I really don't hope) than this EXACTLY describes the problem with concentrating on raid and M+ content too much.

Edit: Except if you wanted to sarcastically criticize the mentality of some of the M+ players and raiders. Then I agree with you.

[Himora]

Game is dying because blizzard is pandering to the loud LGBTTSQ commie freaks. everything is offensive if you look hard enough, everything will be cleaned & cencored until there is nothing left except final fantasy

[Kallisto]

Your comment exactly describes the kind of feedback which Blizzard should absolutely NOT listen to in my opinion. This Go!Go!Go! Max Gear mentality is the exact reason why WoW is the way it is now.

I think Blizzard should concentrate a lot more on player interaction and community building. This Go!Go!Go! mentality will push people away from WoW, especially new players.

If your post demonstrates the same mentality that a lot of Mythic+ players and raiders have (which I really don't hope) than this EXACTLY describes the problem with concentrating on raid and M+ content too much.

Edit: Except if you wanted to sarcastically criticize the mentality of some of the M+ players and raiders. Then I agree with you.

It's more an observation on how the player base in wow has been acting since at least wrath. Not something that I agree with (their views) but it's become clear that unless it has power related to it (or is super nerfed to the ground) the player base just isn't interested.

It's essentially this if something is in the game

Does it offer power? If yes the player base screams forced, if no the player base screams Not interested. Unless it's pretty much falling over itself.

People today like to push the whole "But we love the mage tower." in recent months. But in reality, they didn't like it for most of its lifetime. They liked it once they were geared with gear that's 2 tiers after its release and the bosses in the tower were of no actual difficulty.

[zweyhand]

When a huge chunk of the player base watches them, it's highly probable that most of what they think and expect about the game resonates.

[Draco-Onis]

It's more an observation on how the player base in wow has been acting since at least wrath. Not something that I agree with (their views) but it's become clear that unless it has power related to it (or is super nerfed to the ground) the player base just isn't interested.

It's essentially this if something is in the game

Does it offer power? If yes the player base screams forced, if no the player base screams Not interested. Unless it's pretty much falling over itself.

People today like to push the whole "But we love the mage tower." in recent months. But in reality, they didn't like it for most of its lifetime. They liked it once they were geared with gear that's 2 tiers after its release and the bosses in the tower were of no actual difficulty.

I am not sure what version of the game you are playing but one of the most popular feature since Wrath was the mage tower and it had nothing to do with player power. There are also tons of other additions people like such as Chromie's quests and others, what the player base has been screaming for is engaging content. The reason players are screaming forced is because of things like Thorgast perfect example of Blizzard's flawed designed based off something fun but because they tied it to player power both the design, implementation and its popularity suffered.