To all the Bellulars, Asmogolds, Preaches, QoL'ers and Fans that want to Design WOW.

[Redshirtz]

Argent Dawn Eu is dead.

Stormwind is dead.

Friendlist since classic is more dead than WoD selfiepatch.

Do not worry. It doesnt matter if they listen to the streamers or not. The game is soon dead anyways.

Thanks to the upper ones.

[Kralljin]

1-since u want to be that accurate, cata pre-patch launched in october, 1 month after wrath launch in china

And with no "new" content coming out for how long..?
Unless you want to count the 1-58 a fresh content.

2- world first Algalon was done by a chineese guild in korean server, which actually turned focus on them and caused big problem how a banned game was still played but that's a total different story here, tldr: at least most hardcore chineese wow addicts still played on different servers risking serious legal problems (sadly china doesn't joke about video games, they can literally jail u for that, if u lucky)

Okay, what does this have to do with anything?
You're arguing that chinese didn't have access to Wotlk, hence all those subs during Wotlk came from US/EU, now you're saying that were some ways they could play.

But thanks for the anecdote, i guess.

3- korea servers also exist, but they were never big numbers, don't remember see them pulling even once over 1 million

And what now has korea to do with this?
Were they also not able to access Wotlk?

4- while u are free to counter guess, we are sure of 1 fact, all china TBC players (asian players were ~ half of player base in tbc, around 5 or 6 million)

Then please provide a source for that fact.

Disregarding that your entire assumption is also based on the fact that literally all of those chinese players did quit upon the launch of Wotlk, which is just utterly silly.
It's not like everybody and their mother was clearing SWP at the time and nothing to do.

Seriously, you're talking about a size of like ~6M people and you assume that such a huge mass quit within a few months while another audience of the same size started to play the game and this doesn't show up in statistic and merely thus gives off the appearanance of a zero sum gain.

Apply occam's razor: What is the more logical explanation, that the market of people interested in WoW just reached its cap during Wotlk or that you saw millions of people quitting in China while simultanously, millions of players in US/EU started playing?

Here's what you have to keep in mind: the difference between TBC and Wotlk are, for a new player, pretty miniscule, because they were still like 100h-150h hours away from even the endgame, where the largest differences were present.
As if some unseen majority who has never played WoW before, heard that Wotlk adds 10man to every raid and then "Fuck it, i have never played WoW, let alone did raid but that 2nd expansion adds 10man raiding for every raid so let's fucking go!".

[crusadernero]

I'll take the critical thoughts, opinions and suggestions of the Bellulars, Asmongolds and Preaches over you mindless Blizzard drones any day of the week. If there's no critical voice out there stagnation is the only outcome as devs realize they can get away with less because the fanbase irrationally simps for them and swallows everything.

Whether those content creators are right is a different matter, but trying to silence them like you guys are doing is a slam dunk mistake.

You guys are the reason the game is in the state it's in. You have no standards and are just wagging your tails at Blizzard while actively attempting to silence any dissenting opinion. Just look at this Relapses guy on these forums, it's honestly pathetic.

oh really? most content creators that have been moaning about Blizzard & wow for years still activly play the game. Atleast preach finally lived up to his words and actually quit making content about wow, but he hasnt 100% quit. He too gives Blizzard money on a monthly basis. Come 9.2 and especially 10.0, all of these content creators will throw money at Blizzard.

We can all be big crybabies about wow but in the end most of us has payed subs, xpac fees and whatnot while doing so. Hopefully people stop doing that, cause less money is a language Blizzard understands.

[ryanmahaffe]

Someone randomly linked Bellulars RIO data as if that has any bearing on his opinions.
If you have done the dungeons even on M0, you can have an opinion on the dungeons
If you have done the raid on any difficulty, you can comment on fundamentals of the raid.

Shadowlands sucks, it started off strong, better than BFA, the systems were less power oriented, the dungeons were better (imo) and the gearing felt simple and streamlined, but the problems started showing up hard around February, Torghast as increasingly becoming a chore, with terrible design elements, the world content was absolutely awful, and shows just how far behind WoW is compared to something like Guild Wars 2 in the world content department

There were a lot of cut corners with the art assets, almost making it feel like it was overall cheaper
THe maw was and is one of the worst designed endgame zones in WoWs history, from the narrative excellence of Suaramar (and Withered Army training, which alone was superior to Torghast) to the dreary boring drivel of the Maw.

However had 9.1 launched in say...March or April, with a small TOV style raid, Korthia, Torgahast improvements, and everything else it genuinely helped improve, then the dropoff in player count would have been far less noticeable, but instead we are getting 6+ month droughts for patches that aren't even as good as 6.2, and are a pathetic far cry from 8.2, or even 7.2 (Broken Shore sucked, but mage tower, deaths of chromie, and Tomb itself were great)

It feels like the whole team was replaced after Legion and now we just have some shitty wannabe people managing the game, desperately trying to be as good as Legion.

And to the crowd that goes "PEOPLE COMPLAINED ABOUT LEGION AS WELL, PLAYERS STILL LEFT"
True, but the official youtube videos were still very well received, engagement was higher online, content creators still played the game all the time, and Stormblood didnt F Wow in the A like Shadowbringers/Endwalker are doing.

Idk, I left WoW in March, skipped 9.1 and am already exhausted looking at what's in 9.2
Ion needs to be a raid designer again, Danuser needs to be let go or demoted. and the system designers need to fuck off.

Been playing Gw2 and having so much fun just doing content I enjoy it because it is well made content. At this point am more excited for End of Dragons than 10.0.

[crusadernero]

Someone randomly linked Bellulars RIO data as if that has any bearing on his opinions.
If you have done the dungeons even on M0, you can have an opinion on the dungeons
If you have done the raid on any difficulty, you can comment on fundamentals of the raid.

Shadowlands sucks, it started off strong, better than BFA, the systems were less power oriented, the dungeons were better (imo) and the gearing felt simple and streamlined, but the problems started showing up hard around February, Torghast as increasingly becoming a chore, with terrible design elements, the world content was absolutely awful, and shows just how far behind WoW is compared to something like Guild Wars 2 in the world content department

There were a lot of cut corners with the art assets, almost making it feel like it was overall cheaper
THe maw was and is one of the worst designed endgame zones in WoWs history, from the narrative excellence of Suaramar (and Withered Army training, which alone was superior to Torghast) to the dreary boring drivel of the Maw.

However had 9.1 launched in say...March or April, with a small TOV style raid, Korthia, Torgahast improvements, and everything else it genuinely helped improve, then the dropoff in player count would have been far less noticeable, but instead we are getting 6+ month droughts for patches that aren't even as good as 6.2, and are a pathetic far cry from 8.2, or even 7.2 (Broken Shore sucked, but mage tower, deaths of chromie, and Tomb itself were great)

It feels like the whole team was replaced after Legion and now we just have some shitty wannabe people managing the game, desperately trying to be as good as Legion.

And to the crowd that goes "PEOPLE COMPLAINED ABOUT LEGION AS WELL, PLAYERS STILL LEFT"
True, but the official youtube videos were still very well received, engagement was higher online, content creators still played the game all the time, and Stormblood didnt F Wow in the A like Shadowbringers/Endwalker are doing.

Idk, I left WoW in March, skipped 9.1 and am already exhausted looking at what's in 9.2
Ion needs to be a raid designer again, Danuser needs to be let go or demoted. and the system designers need to fuck off.

Been playing Gw2 and having so much fun just doing content I enjoy it because it is well made content. At this point am more excited for End of Dragons than 10.0.

I just want wow to be fun to play. I dont want to log in because I have to, but because I want to. Theres a big difference there.

[Nask]

Argent Dawn Eu is dead.

Stormwind is dead.

Friendlist since classic is more dead than WoD selfiepatch.

Do not worry. It doesnt matter if they listen to the streamers or not. The game is soon dead anyways.

Thanks to the upper ones.

I just logged on AD and there were plenty players around, what are you talking about?

[Lamoth]

The nonsensical hate for wow and especially it's narrative is just rediculous. Now, wow is nowhere near being a perfect game and has a lot of problems, but the blind uneducated unreasonable rage it's getting is plain silly and kind of scary.

I went and watched those streamers reaction to 9.2 videos and it's full of just straight up knee jerk stupidity and parroting of community invented problems with the game. Disgusting,

When they all ask 'But we don't know what jailer wants?' or ridicule the 'walk on water' bits etc. - clearly shows absolute lack of fairness or honesty.

[Soikona]

Mate, then take it from another person: He's right.

Unless you're into completionism content or be artificially inefficient (such as actually bothering to do dailies for Reputation outside of the Sons of Hodir), you'll be sitting in Dalaran all day long pretty quickly.
Especially if the Dungeon Finder is in from day one.
Especially if you can buy Sons of Hodir Rep.

Wotlk is even more heavy on raidlogging than Classic or TBC.

That’s how I played back in the day, gear some alts, I remember that clearly. That’s what I like. So I don’t see how this is a negative

[sam86]

And with no "new" content coming out for how long..?
Unless you want to count the 1-58 a fresh content.

1-literally the pre-patch was most of cata content, new talent, revamped lvling, yes everyone was busy doing the old revamped zones, in fact this was the biggest 'pre-patch' in wow history even now, so when it was released by oct that was new content, heck that was more than half of what cata offered in total
2-i was detailing my answer, because u nitpick, yes some chineese still were able to play, btw they got world first alone in dark not algalon
3- the only confirmed chineese players were in korea servers, not eu or usa
4-so when a new exp launch, most of current subs stay playing old exp -.- ? they sub to play older irrelevant content? did that happen even at TBC launch?

[Kralljin]

1-literally the pre-patch was most of cata content, new talent, revamped lvling, yes everyone was busy doing the old revamped zones, in fact this was the biggest 'pre-patch' in wow history even now, so when it was released by oct that was new content, heck that was more than half of what cata offered in total

If you weren't interested in leveling, then what?
New talents? Please, every expansion has that.

2-i was detailing my answer, because u nitpick, yes some chineese still were able to play, btw they got world first alone in dark not algalon

So...Blizzard actually counted their subs?
Because if they were able to play, they would still count, unless Blizzard simply stopped counting any subs from the enterity of Asia because China didn't get Wotlk on time.
I assume they still had to pay in fashion even if they were playing on different servers.

3- the only confirmed chineese players were in korea servers, not eu or usa

So they were counted as korean players instead.
Does it matter whether a guy counts as korean or chinese player?

4-so when a new exp launch, most of current subs stay playing old exp -.- ? they sub to play older irrelevant content? did that happen even at TBC launch?

Because chinese players just had the option to jump to servers with Wotlk access without issue, right? It's not like they were a given in the matter.
Because if they did, it again defeats your point because then they would've counted as korean subs.

Disregarding that in TBC, it's not like a majority of people were clearing SWP, i wasn't done with TBC strictly speaking when Wotlk came and that applies to the majority of the playerbase that played at the time.

[lolipopp]

To all the Bellulars, Asmogolds, Preaches, QoL'ers - ALL THISE CLAWNS (besie preaches he is a nice guy) MOSTLY do it for money and more viewers ...nothing else
They dont udnerstand a shit how to designe a game ..they just got ideas and nothng else !

[Ashina]

To all the Bellulars, Asmogolds, Preaches, QoL'ers - ALL THISE CLAWNS (besie preaches he is a nice guy) MOSTLY do it for money and more viewers ...nothing else
They dont udnerstand a shit how to designe a game ..they just got ideas and nothng else !

Grow up. You don't have to be a game designer to critique the product you're using.

I can't believe this childish argument is still held among gamers that you can't have an idea or opinion on a video game if you're not a dev.

Incredible, you should grow out of this dogmatic appeal to authority after your childhood.

[InfernalDark]

This thread will not go very far.

Can't believe this troll thread is still open after 3 months.

[niztheundead87]

Grow up. You don't have to be a game designer to critique the product you're using.

I can't believe this childish argument is still held among gamers that you can't have an idea or opinion on a video game if you're not a dev.

Incredible, you should grow out of this dogmatic appeal to authority after your childhood.

its called confirmation bias

[sam86]

If you weren't interested in leveling, then what?
New talents? Please, every expansion has that.

1-tell that to blizz ... last 3 exp
and if u weren't interested in most of cata content, then nothing, hence why a lot complained about it
2-they count of course all subs, however to assume that they stayed playing old exp is nonsense, how many ppl logging to wow now don't own SL and are actively playing solely older content on a lvl 50 character? (if u argue with that, then i give up)
3-nationality doesn't, only server, there are chineese i played with personally during TBC on eu servers
4-chinese players didn't have option to play wotlk legally at least, and with so little info about china, we not sure how did they cheat that (we know that at least not korea, since korea servers never recorded more than 1 million player), we know that a guild was mainly chineese did world first alone in dark, and that got them in trouble, but that's it
we have no idea what is minimum 4 million chineese player in TBC were doing during wrath, where they still playing TBC until cata launch, did they play illegally on usa servers (since usa servers have oceanic and this is relatively close timer), did they just give up on wow, we don't know, what we do know is wow didn't suffer sub loss, and since most ppl are not that addict to wow to risk going jail or 'reforming' camps in a tyrannical country like china, doubt they still played

[Kralljin]

1-tell that to blizz ... last 3 exp

Good thing we aren't talking about modern expansions.

New talents weren't a hallmark of the Cata pre patch, that was standard then.

and if u weren't interested in most of cata content, then nothing, hence why a lot complained about it

Good thing you just said earlier that Cata pre Patch are more content than ever, now you say that a lot of people complained about it.

how many ppl logging to wow now don't own SL and are actively playing solely older content on a lvl 50 character? (if u argue with that, then i give up)

Compare how many people have cleared the enterity of TBC when Wotlk launched vs. the people that have cleared (which includes LFR, mind you) of modern day expansions.

3-nationality doesn't, only server, there are chineese i played with personally during TBC on eu servers

Which further proves the point that a lot of those players just played WoW somewhere else and didn't drop out of WoW entirely.