Will "casual" players defend blizzards next expansion feature?

[saixilein]

Exactly. If classes we're functional and enjoyable to play, Blizz wouldn't need to band-aid all this garbage in on top, leading to the depressing feeling of starting over again next xpac.

I used to love looking forward to an expansion. Now it's the dread of feeling how hollowed out my chars are going to be once the level cap goes up again.

Yeah, 100% agree. Im sick of loosing cool skills/mechanics i fall in love with, just to get new (boring) ones, so they can bring back the cool shit 2 expacs later. I mean most Legendarys/Conduits are Skills/Legendarys/Artifact Skills we got 2-3 Expacs back.

They remove cool things for no reason, just to hype the audience for bringing them back "HEY LOOK HOW WE CARE FOR PVP! WE BRING BACK UNIQUE SKILLS; LIKE SHATTERING THROW AND INTERVIN! NOW CHEER FOR US; CAUSE WE LISTENED!!!! AND WE CAREEEEEE!!!!!" there was never be need to remove skills like that at all.

What is the negative of being able to swap between covenants and conduits with no restrictions?

I’m actually curious about this because I hear buzzwords like meaningful choice when I ask but what is meaningful to you might not be meaningful to me. Having a core system with class specific abilities behind a lock is just not fun for me. I believe more choices makes a better game and if players don’t want to switch on the fly they can choose not to

For me this game is still a ROLEPLAY game. And im anoyed by this min/max community. Im sick of all these Ratings like rio, damage and heal meters. People these days dont play for fun, they play for being optimized as fck and doing the hardest content the fastes way.

Generally i would say "i dont care, people can do what they want" - but their mentaly is like cancer, that grown over the years and now has 90% of the playerbase a mindset like these.

I was a big fan of "making a meaningful choice" - because its fun to see different playstyles, but Blizzard failed in balancing, so some classes have just this one covenant to pick, because its super mega ultr amzing in all, and all others dont.

People these days just looking for best numbers, noone cares about fun gameplay, unique builds etc.

I wish Blizzard would remove Rio, and addons that check performance in general, because they optimizing the fun out of the game.

[DarkAmbient]

'Will people defend something that we know nothing about yet?' What a dumb premise for a thread.

[Empower]

Depends on feature of course. I defended covenants, because their initial concept was that they were like classes 2.0 and you don't have ability to change your class at any moment without leveling alt. And only min-maxers want to swap everything on fly to always be super-effective. But it was just concept. It's implementation itself is terrible, because everything revolves around extreme long term grinds, that aren't casual-friendly at all. For example anima grind, that is more like rep grind 2.0. Conduits grind. Time-gated souls and gifts are still there. Some players say, that they get everything passively via just playing the game. But they aren't casuals then, because they actually do lots of content on daily basis, like 100% WQs, lots of high M+ runs and raids. Casuals aren't able to do it. They have to dedicate their time to that grinds instead of playing their preferred fun content. And this makes game casual-unfriendly and unfun for them.

Problem is every system has been like this. It's why I don't believe the playerbase at large can make anything close to a reasonable assessment. Everytime it's the higher end players that warn about the practical implementation of systems and everything the player base at large comes up with a magical grandiose version of what the system is in their heads that never works out that way.

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A bigger issue than what you describe above is "casual" players thinking they aren't casual. Thinking they are elite, top 1% or "higher end" and better at the game than they are. Although it would be hard on MMO-Champ to prove otherwise its been my experience that the majority of people who start threads complaining about casuals or what casuals do, are in fact, super casuals and either try to hide the fact or are delusional to the fact.

I use the term casual because it's what they call themselves. I call myself a raider so I refer to myself as such. I'm not really interested in debating the label they gave themselves it's simply easier to use it.

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Dunno, will "hardcore" players defend Blizzard's next expansion feature?

Usually they do. They are the ones who sink the most time into grinding and the ones that want it to be the most rewarding while shunning harder content.

[Lochton]

Usually they do. They are the ones who sink the most time into grinding and the ones that want it to be the most rewarding while shunning harder content.

I am getting confused...

MMO-champion members keep changing the meanings of casual vs. hardcore, and I try to adjust.

I've played since launch, daily, and I've never shunned harder content, nor do I believe people doing harder content are higher up than people who do world content.

[Empower]

I am getting confused...

MMO-champion members keep changing the meanings of casual vs. hardcore, and I try to adjust.

I've played since launch, daily, and I've never shunned harder content, nor do I believe people doing harder content are higher up than people who do world content.

It's why I just use whatever title they give themselves. I've given up trying to pin any one meaning to the word. If someone calls themselves casual I will call them that. They call themselves a raider I will call them that etc.

It's only less confusing that way even if it feels weird.

[Kathranis]

But you're right, the ring/cloak were the beginning of the concept.

They really weren't. Path of the Titans was the prototype, but it didn't make it out of the Cataclysm alpha test because it overlapped with glyphs too much. It's literally where the concept of artifact power came from, with a secondary bar to fill and abilities to progressively unlock. It was going to be tied to Archaeology, with the in-game lore literally being that the Cataclysm was going to unearth powerful Titan artifacts that you'd turn in for progress.

Is there where we pretend Thunderfury, Warglaives, and Shadowmourne weren't already mini versions of borrowed power? Players love to pretend like "borrowed power" only exists post-Legion but it was there the whole time. It simply wasn't the centerpiece of the expansion. (Though I guess you make an argument that the Legendary ring in WoD was pretty integral to the expansion's story. And to a lesser extent the cloak from MoP before it.)

Yeah, we've always had "borrowed power" between Trinkets, Tier Sets, Legendaries, and abilities that get removed or reworked, but Path of the Titans was literally the prototype for what we got in Legion and BFA with Artifacts and AP.

And it was something that players were clamoring for for years after they cancelled it.

[xpsync]

Casuals do NOT use forums. Especially somthing as small as this forum here.

People tend to call themselves casuals here but they are not and never will be casuals.

Casuals don't care about anything here. They play. Then stop or play a bit more. Don't whine like half the posts here because they are not so overly invested as most people on mmo-champ or wowhead comment section.

Do not confuse what people write here in a forum with maybe 10 new threads a day (if at all) with the opinion of "the people" or casuals.

Poor you with that horrible curse upon your head...

Yep! I've considered myself a casual gamer, but if i meet the right peeps i end up going all in, as in atm 4/10 Mythic, even though i was casual with wow up until this expac and many other mmorpgs as well, and again unless i meet the right peeps then i will take the game to the limit.

But you're right i would not be here if i was casual, its like phone games and why they are so popular, it's just a handy time waster for people, and some get carried away with and spend stupid amounts of $ on them.

Real casuals just play and are oblivious to the behind the scenes, drama, the inner workings, they don't care, they just play.

[Soon-TM]

Hard to say how could any player, casual or otherwise, defend an unannounced feature. Even if it was already announced, there is always the small matter of its actual implementation - something that Blizzard usually fumbles on.

[Resheph]

Seeing as 95% of all players are what elitists like OP would call "casual", and Blizzard is making the game for them and not OP I'd say yes - only complication is those casuals won't even talk anywhere that OP would see it, as they have better things to do than hang around the circle jerk that is MMO Champ. Like playing and enjoying WOW.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Hate to break it to you but it isn't usually casuals who mindlessly defend shitty game design. Casuals leave the game, or take a break if they don't like something. You better direct your gaze at fanatical hardcore addicts.

So you're trying to say that we hardcore players who have been aginst all the BS systems since the beta are the reason for their implantations.. ok... thats some cope i must say

[BigToast]

I predict that there will be many threads hating on the feature, with some "casual" players defending it within the hate threads.

Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was

[Relapses]

So you're trying to say that we hardcore players who have been aginst all the BS systems since the beta are the reason for their implantations.. ok... thats some cope i must say

Every raider I know loves Korthia. What a fun and interesting place!

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Every raider I know loves Korthia. What a fun and interesting place!

ofc i loved it to sit for 4 weeks 5 hours a day in the middle of an island until my addon yelled at me that a rar spawned, peak hardcore raider gameplay

[Hellobolis]

if i only played 1 month per patch i prolly wouldn't complain, even if the content is lower quality there tends be be enough to get $15s worth. the only real thing worth complaining about would potentially be timegating, but after you experienced that once or twice you'd just wait a month or two after the patch is out before playing.

but casual or hardcore if you play 3+ months per patch cycle... i would be wary of anyone who's opinion didn't come in the form of "this looks cool, but....". their ideas are usually okay on paper afterall.

[Revamp Man]

Yeah, 100% agree. Im sick of loosing cool skills/mechanics i fall in love with, just to get new (boring) ones, so they can bring back the cool shit 2 expacs later. I mean most Legendarys/Conduits are Skills/Legendarys/Artifact Skills we got 2-3 Expacs back.

They remove cool things for no reason, just to hype the audience for bringing them back "HEY LOOK HOW WE CARE FOR PVP! WE BRING BACK UNIQUE SKILLS; LIKE SHATTERING THROW AND INTERVIN! NOW CHEER FOR US; CAUSE WE LISTENED!!!! AND WE CAREEEEEE!!!!!" there was never be need to remove skills like that at all.



For me this game is still a ROLEPLAY game. And im anoyed by this min/max community. Im sick of all these Ratings like rio, damage and heal meters. People these days dont play for fun, they play for being optimized as fck and doing the hardest content the fastes way.

Generally i would say "i dont care, people can do what they want" - but their mentaly is like cancer, that grown over the years and now has 90% of the playerbase a mindset like these.

I was a big fan of "making a meaningful choice" - because its fun to see different playstyles, but Blizzard failed in balancing, so some classes have just this one covenant to pick, because its super mega ultr amzing in all, and all others dont.

People these days just looking for best numbers, noone cares about fun gameplay, unique builds etc.

I wish Blizzard would remove Rio, and addons that check performance in general, because they optimizing the fun out of the game.

Ok so the solution is for you to not swap the covenant then

Min/max has been a thing since vanilla
IO and meters are optional
The m+ rating is a measure because blizzard has screwed up the ilvl measurement many people used

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Yeah, 100% agree. Im sick of loosing cool skills/mechanics i fall in love with, just to get new (boring) ones, so they can bring back the cool shit 2 expacs later. I mean most Legendarys/Conduits are Skills/Legendarys/Artifact Skills we got 2-3 Expacs back.

They remove cool things for no reason, just to hype the audience for bringing them back "HEY LOOK HOW WE CARE FOR PVP! WE BRING BACK UNIQUE SKILLS; LIKE SHATTERING THROW AND INTERVIN! NOW CHEER FOR US; CAUSE WE LISTENED!!!! AND WE CAREEEEEE!!!!!" there was never be need to remove skills like that at all.



For me this game is still a ROLEPLAY game. And im anoyed by this min/max community. Im sick of all these Ratings like rio, damage and heal meters. People these days dont play for fun, they play for being optimized as fck and doing the hardest content the fastes way.

Generally i would say "i dont care, people can do what they want" - but their mentaly is like cancer, that grown over the years and now has 90% of the playerbase a mindset like these.

I was a big fan of "making a meaningful choice" - because its fun to see different playstyles, but Blizzard failed in balancing, so some classes have just this one covenant to pick, because its super mega ultr amzing in all, and all others dont.

People these days just looking for best numbers, noone cares about fun gameplay, unique builds etc.

I wish Blizzard would remove Rio, and addons that check performance in general, because they optimizing the fun out of the game.

"I dont giva shit about my performance and hate all that do care and i like to waste the other 19 ppls time in a raid, everyone should be like me, if not you are cancer" thats a strange take mate, if " 90% of the playerbase has this mindset" then it is a "you" problem

[Daronokk]

or has such a savage blow been struck that this time around the " casual" playerbase will trust the higher end?

What an elitist bullshit remark.

Why the hatred against casuals anyway? If you're playing this game casual or hardcore it's like playing a different game. What is fun to a casual player isn't fun to a hardcore player. And vice versa.

Designing the game to only one of these groups doesn't work, the game can't thrive on only one group. So there need to be fun things for casual players and the hardcore folks can have their mythic+ dungeons and mythic raiding.

What you're asking however is designing the game completely around hardcore raiding, all game aspects have to be balanced and tweaked in your favour. I can guarantee you that a lot of people will leave with that stubborn mindset.

If you ask me the game thrives on a casual basis with hardcore aspects. A little bit of everything for everyone.

[saixilein]

"I dont giva shit about my performance and hate all that do care and i like to waste the other 19 ppls time in a raid, everyone should be like me, if not you are cancer" thats a strange take mate, if " 90% of the playerbase has this mindset" then it is a "you" problem

First i wanna start arguing with u, but then i released that some1 who is writing nonsense like you isnt up for an argument at all. So, ciao.

Ok so the solution is for you to not swap the covenant then

Min/max has been a thing since vanilla
IO and meters are optional
The m+ rating is a measure because blizzard has screwed up the ilvl measurement many people used

I knew that this "argument" would come. Ofc i could stay my covenant. But 1.) it would be not the same - Like back then level 60/70/80 levelstop guilds that doing the classic/tbc/wotlk content. And 2.) it wouldnt changed others mindset. "oh, you play a covenant thats now meta? to bad. *DECLINED* - Even for low m+ dungeons and heroic Raids.

It doenst matter if Meters are optional. These Addons are a thing, people use it, and creating the mindset we have to day. Its all about max performance.

Dunno, but until Cata/MoP i never met people that cared so much about min/maxing.

[Revamp Man]

First i wanna start arguing with u, but then i released that some1 who is writing nonsense like you isnt up for an argument at all. So, ciao.



I knew that this "argument" would come. Ofc i could stay my covenant. But 1.) it would be not the same - Like back then level 60/70/80 levelstop guilds that doing the classic/tbc/wotlk content. And 2.) it wouldnt changed others mindset. "oh, you play a covenant thats now meta? to bad. *DECLINED* - Even for low m+ dungeons and heroic Raids.

It doenst matter if Meters are optional. These Addons are a thing, people use it, and creating the mindset we have to day. Its all about max performance.

Dunno, but until Cata/MoP i never met people that cared so much about min/maxing.

That argument comes up because that’s the solution lol
You want the game to be made a certain way to take away the choice for players to play how they want
At the same time you are saying that other’s have a mindset making the majority play certain ways

[Dhrizzle]

First i wanna start arguing with u, but then i released that some1 who is writing nonsense like you isnt up for an argument at all. So, ciao.



I knew that this "argument" would come. Ofc i could stay my covenant. But 1.) it would be not the same - Like back then level 60/70/80 levelstop guilds that doing the classic/tbc/wotlk content. And 2.) it wouldnt changed others mindset. "oh, you play a covenant thats now meta? to bad. *DECLINED* - Even for low m+ dungeons and heroic Raids.

It doenst matter if Meters are optional. These Addons are a thing, people use it, and creating the mindset we have to day. Its all about max performance.

Dunno, but until Cata/MoP i never met people that cared so much about min/maxing.

Min-maxing was a huge thing in TBC and WotLK not just for individuals but also raid composition.