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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    So what you're telling me... Is that you quit after having to do 8 dungeons over 8 weeks?
    I'm suspecting m+ had nothing to with it and you were just burned out in general.
    It was not just 8 dungeons over 8 weeks.
    It was much more the shift in daily chores towards a less pleasant task. SL itself has featured quite a shift in that; which pretty much ravaged my guild from the get-go.

    But then again, the whole thing doesn't matter anymore.
    I just wanted to point out that the hardcore players need casuals, who get "carried",
    just as much as whales in P2W games need F2P players.

    It is a symbiotic relationship; the good players need bad players... because in a game of "exclusively good players" nobody is really good in the end; everybody is just average in that hypothetic scenario.
    And with WoW it's even more so, seeing how hardcores represent a minority, but their content pretty much eats up the same resources and then some on top.

  2. #242
    I finally just stopped playing after *another* guild broke up in shadowlands. Doing mythic plus is important up to a point imo. I mained a warlock so once I got my Ruby trinket from Theater I didn't really spam M+ anymore. Some weeks not even one for a vault. I was so burned out I didn't care but I still parsed 85+ on prog.

    You're in the wrong guild if people not wanting to progress hard is pissing you off.

  3. #243
    What if you're raidloging but parsing 90+ in mythic and 98+ in heroic, is that still a burden on your group ?

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by fruitbasket102 View Post


    you are missing the point idiot
    No I very much understand your point, mine still remains. Go outside.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    I was never a fan of spamming dungeons before. Was not a fan of the challenge dungeons since it was all just shortcut taking BS, same with M+. If I was ever "required" to run them for any reason to raid, I'd just find a new guild. Thankfully we just raid for fun.
    I absolutely hate M+ and feel it completely ruined the game for me. I was in a bunch of different guilds since vanilla and finally found a great one day one of Pandaria that im still (technically) in today. We were a really laid back casual guild that pushed mythic raid content. M+ participation kept slowly climbing and when SL came out it was "if you don't do mythic plus you cant raid". This was in a guild that already had participation issues and we would more and more have to pug a person or two due to people not showing up. As i said, i cant fucking stand M+ and after years of never getting anything worth a shit from the weekly boxes i just stopped. I was already super burnt out at the time and was only showing up to raid because I just felt dedicated to the people ive known for so long. They noticed i wasnt doing M+ and my performance was falling behind badly and asked if i wanted to step down from raider rank and i was elated. This was back in February and i was like, man all this time to just collect pets and fuck around solo....well i completely stopped playing until like August lol. Came back and the guild was gone. Well, the guild was still there but no one was around. started talking on Discord to them and turns out like a month or so after I left shit just got bad. people not showing up, people fighting during raid and rage quitting.

    I occasionally log in now to run a torghast or stare at the screen for 5 minutes before saying "fuck this game" and logging out, but I'm always the only person in the guild online.

    Turns out a lot of people didnt want to run M+ and it divided everyone. Most people quit and play Guild Wars or FF, some went to other guilds.

    Fuck M+

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Chriisto View Post
    If you do raid prog but refuse to do M+ then you are being carried. If you are just raid logging and putting no effort into improving your character then you are literally a burden on your group.

    I think of it like this - It's a team sport and you refuse to turn up for practice each week before we play because you think you are better than everyone else even though you are overweight and never score.

    What does everyone else think? We have a few people like this in my guild and it really pisses me off. It probably shouldn't but it honestly makes me feel like giving up when some of us are throwing everything we have at a boss whilst others may as well be afk. I know, find another guild. I just do not understand people like this and how little shame they must have.
    I think you need to shut up. No one gives a shit how you want people to play the game.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Mentalities like OP is why I quit mythic raiding. I play the game to have fun, not treat it like a fucking job.
    I am in the exact same boat. I love our raids in Classic TBC just show up and raid for 6 hours a week kill bosses, shoot the shit and have fun. Then log off until the next week.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargas View Post
    I think you need to shut up. No one gives a shit how you want people to play the game.
    what i do not understand in this discussion topic is, why anyone in reality have problems with this at all?

    before you join a guild, you can ask how they handle this and what they expect besides raiding or what their philosophy is. the same as some companies want you to do stuff, or learning, etc outside of job time. if you dont like that, dont join em. there are others. same with guilds.

    so i see this not as a m+ or not m+ problem. i see this more as a „join a guild that matches your playstle“ problem.

  9. #249
    >What does everyone else think?
    I think that mythic+ was a god damn mistake, is counter to how mmo's should be, has no place in the game, and that people that raid log without doing mythic+ play the game as it should be done.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Zmagoslav View Post
    It is a symbiotic relationship; the good players need bad players... because in a game of "exclusively good players" nobody is really good in the end; everybody is just average in that hypothetic scenario.
    And with WoW it's even more so, seeing how hardcores represent a minority, but their content pretty much eats up the same resources and then some on top.
    I dont agree with the first part but I can see where you're coming from.
    The second part I dont understand at all, the content is the same for everyone, just scaled differently? Mythic raiding tends to have 1 added ability to deal with but sometimes not even that.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargas View Post
    I think you need to shut up. No one gives a shit how you want people to play the game.
    252 replies tells me that people do care about how I want other people to play the game. Including you! Thanks for participating friend

  12. #252
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Looks like OP should be applying to a WF, or at least top 100 kind of guild. but instead gets angry at his/her guildmates. There is a term for that kind of people...
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    It's not really retconning though. There's plenty we didn't know from WC3 - a story which is just about 20 years old. The Jailer is the backbone of that story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    It's interesting how a character that didn't exist back then could be the backbone of the story. Guess that story must have been an invertebrate then.

  13. #253
    You are exactly right and that is also a huge reason many people don't enjoy raiding now.

    People enjoy havving the OPTION to raidlog and not fall behind.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    I absolutely hate M+ and feel it completely ruined the game for me. I was in a bunch of different guilds since vanilla and finally found a great one day one of Pandaria that im still (technically) in today. We were a really laid back casual guild that pushed mythic raid content. M+ participation kept slowly climbing and when SL came out it was "if you don't do mythic plus you cant raid". This was in a guild that already had participation issues and we would more and more have to pug a person or two due to people not showing up. As i said, i cant fucking stand M+ and after years of never getting anything worth a shit from the weekly boxes i just stopped. I was already super burnt out at the time and was only showing up to raid because I just felt dedicated to the people ive known for so long. They noticed i wasnt doing M+ and my performance was falling behind badly and asked if i wanted to step down from raider rank and i was elated. This was back in February and i was like, man all this time to just collect pets and fuck around solo....well i completely stopped playing until like August lol. Came back and the guild was gone. Well, the guild was still there but no one was around. started talking on Discord to them and turns out like a month or so after I left shit just got bad. people not showing up, people fighting during raid and rage quitting.

    I occasionally log in now to run a torghast or stare at the screen for 5 minutes before saying "fuck this game" and logging out, but I'm always the only person in the guild online.

    Turns out a lot of people didnt want to run M+ and it divided everyone. Most people quit and play Guild Wars or FF, some went to other guilds.

    Fuck M+
    things change with time. in MoP that guild was clearly much more casual and now they wanted to push harder.

    its not their fault you had different goals.

    so instead looking for new guild which would solely raid you rather quit - its your choice but its not m+ fault.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    You are exactly right and that is also a huge reason many people don't enjoy raiding now.

    People enjoy havving the OPTION to raidlog and not fall behind.
    game should be never designed aroudn people who just raid log.

    the faster such peopel are gone from game the better for game.

    ill give you 1 stat which i have from alt that i barely play - there is currently over 1 mln chars which did this season DoS and got 147 score there which is literaly 1x11 done (or like 7 timed both on tyranical and fortified)

    checked other alt - there is over 1,1 mln chars which did hoa 10 just 1 time.

    so you have over mln chars which do m+ in minimal degree.

    proving you how wrong you are in how you percive game
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2021-10-14 at 07:58 AM.

  15. #255
    Pandaren Monk Nalam the Venom's Avatar
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    Add vault slot unlock to the blizz store.

    Then people can reap the reward without having to spend time in M+.

    Time for blizz to stop living in the past, most games nowdays have option in the ingame store so that you can still keep up without having to put in extra time.

    Also this removes nothing from any one who enjoys running M+.

    Just adds an option for those that don’t

    Awsome signature and avatar made by Kuragalolz

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Chriisto View Post
    If you do raid prog but refuse to do M+ then you are being carried. If you are just raid logging and putting no effort into improving your character then you are literally a burden on your group.

    I think of it like this - It's a team sport and you refuse to turn up for practice each week before we play because you think you are better than everyone else even though you are overweight and never score.

    What does everyone else think? We have a few people like this in my guild and it really pisses me off. It probably shouldn't but it honestly makes me feel like giving up when some of us are throwing everything we have at a boss whilst others may as well be afk. I know, find another guild. I just do not understand people like this and how little shame they must have.
    Who gave this guy a soapbox? Kick him off it.

    We don't care. Wow may mean that much to you. I'm sad that it does. But it doesn't for most of us. Wanna know how I deal with guilds and groups like you? Make promises. Sure! Absolutely! Clear the raid once or twice and see ya next patch. People like you a nauseating. The only people who stay around are the extreme casuals and the tryhards that think they elite, wanting everyone else to do the same as them.

    When I was a kid, i took wow more serious. I made sure I was the best in my raid and it did annoy me when people couldn't pull their weight. But I was also raidlead, so I'd get rid of them. Get yourself into a position of power or shut up. This is a game. A damn. Game. I only work a 40 hours week. I have plenty of time I could use to play. However, I'd rather work on my spoken word poetry, my insect breeding youtube channel, or tend to the insects I breed for said channel, perhaps record a video, record a recital, etc. I mean I have to maintain a healthy relationship with my girlfriend too, because that is far more important. Gotta care for my reptiles. There are simply more interesting things for me to do than to get on and play wow 5 hours a day, every day, while already committing 4-6 hours a week raiding, all to meet your expectations for a hobby that doesn't pay me? Rofl. Isn't the tier kinda... well done? Isn't it late to be complaining about this? Were you not week 1 AoTC at least? Do you progress mythic raiding week 2? Even the first month, beyond the given loot pinata boss that typically exists? If you aren't in a guild like that. Just hush. Join better players. Make your own xxxhardcore guild so you can actually have power and remove people who suxx in your eyes. Then you and your bros can rosterbate to how good your raid teams ilvl and parses are.

    I hope I came off obnoxious. I did my best to imitate you. There is no "shame" in having better things to spend your time on and not forcing yourself to do content in a game you simply don't like or want to do, or have fun with.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    things change with time. in MoP that guild was clearly much more casual and now they wanted to push harder.
    Doesn't sound like "they" wanted to push harder, sounds more like there was a small number of people like the OP in the guild and their ambition killed the raidgroup and the guild.
    Happened in my guild, too.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Doesn't sound like "they" wanted to push harder, sounds more like there was a small number of people like the OP in the guild and their ambition killed the raidgroup and the guild.
    Happened in my guild, too.
    and in tens of thousands of guilds in past.

    again - goals of people change with time . some people step up some people step down to be ultra casuals .

    and its ok .

    guild is not a prison where people have to stay - once goals changes its sometimes time to walk away . if guild dies in process - shame but its not first one not last. guilds die and reform all the time since blizzard stopped putting nerf over tiem mechanics in wod and since people can no longer faceroll stuff in time which they wouldnt be able earlier.

    imagine if people could put in 16 itlv now on gear like they could in late MoP - how many guilds wouldnt die - or if people got buffed by 40 % like they were in ICC - how many people woudl progress further instead guild disbanding andpeople play FF14

    its blizzard fault that they listed to vocal minority of mythci raiders instead try to appease milions of people who played game.

  19. #259
    I recently had this exact issue with an officer in our Classic guild, but in reverse.

    I've got a full-time job, a dog and a wife. I can't be on all day, everyday. At best I get the weekends, and at worst I get just enough time to hit the Auction House and byy some consumables, and that's it. I can't put the time in to farm as many badges as I want, I can't run Heroics everyday to replace the pieces I've missed from raids and I certainly don't have the time to farm enough gold to get the best enchants and gems.

    But yet, I still turn up and out-perform every Healer (except the Restoration Druid from time to time) in my guild. As a Holy Paladin out-healing a Shaman on any fight in SSC or TK, especially A'lar shows how poor they're playing their class. Yet, I was the one brought up on this. I'm not a parse lord or a meter goon, but when you've got a Shaman Healer parsing at 8% and I'm parsing at 91% regularly, why am I the one being brought up on my commitment.

    People who perform should be left to perform. If they're doing their job, helping the team and no-one is having to cover for them I couldn't care less about the state of their gear. But if you're parsing at 8% and you've got no effort on your gear, then you lack the gear & skill to do the job and that's an issue.

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