You are being carried...

[Scarnage86]

good for you - but reality is most people learn by doing

so what if they watch 15 videos when untill they learn the mechanics by doing them they will likely fail .

thats why i always find it pointless to watch more then those 2 minute videos with general overlook of mechanics - you know that mechanic X can kill you , your dbm tells you its mechanic X you learn how to avoid it by doing it coupel of times.

nothing more is needed .

pls stop pretending raiding is rocket science. its scrypted fight that you need to learn how to follow such scrypt.

some learn faster (mythic raiders) , some learn slower (hc raiders ) , some never learn and they dont have to (normal/lfr raiders ) .

it functions this way for better part of last decade since MoP.

Never say watch videos..... just learn the fight. and for me like u yes fight is learn better on the field

[mojusk]

is it the policy of your guiild that you must do everything possible to min/max?
then its up to the officers to replace those who dont.
if its not the guild policy, then you may have to find a more tryhard guild.

[Marrilaife]

I went through 2 expansion of "if you aren't grinding m+ / ap / emissaries / pvp / whatever else you're letting the team down" and I'm not up for repeat of that "pleasure". Attitudes like the OP in combination to what the game has become turned WOW into a list of daily / weekly chores to tick off the list, no fun allowed until you do your homework and eat your veggies. And then let's have guild officers behaving like taskmasters and overseers checking who did their dues and who's shirking their duties... horrible unfun soulless experience.

[MoanaLisa]

I think of it like this - It's a team sport and you refuse to turn up for practice each week before we play because you think you are better than everyone else even though you are overweight and never score.

What does everyone else think? We have a few people like this in my guild and it really pisses me off. It probably shouldn't but it honestly makes me feel like giving up when some of us are throwing everything we have at a boss whilst others may as well be afk. I know, find another guild. I just do not understand people like this and how little shame they must have.

I don't have a dog in this fight because I'm not doing a lot of raiding outside of LFR. "Progression raiding" means different things to different guilds though which is the point.

The OP took a situation that was internal to their guild—which should have been handled there—to make an attack to shame inadequate players generally when it's clear that guilds can be very different, have a variety of skill levels and goals, and therefore have different requirements for their members to keep their seat on the team. Nonetheless advice is handed out while accusing players who don't conform to rigid standards for thinking they're "better than everyone else even though [they] are overweight and never score."

It was a dickish thing to do.

[Echo of Soul]

This is why m+ needs to die in a fire. I refuse to do content I don't enjoy in order to do the content I do enjoy and I'm sick of the community demanding that I do so.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Find another guild for sure.
With the vault working how it is now, M+ is not nearly as important as it has been in the past.
I am wearing almost no M+ gear anymore.

The problems most people have have nothing to do with gear, either way.
Your inability to recognize this and suggest actual solutions for your team is not making anyone a better player, yourself included.

[Inoculate]

Thank you to the people who offered advice. Some helpful suggestions that I'll take on board.

This post seems to have triggered a lot more people than I thought it would though. I guess they are just the ones being carried in their guilds. Truth hurts I guess. Oh well.

Man, projection sure hurts.

[Erous]

This post is great because I'm a former top 10 US raider and I loathe the mythic+ cesspool community. This post confirms my judgement.

[Chriisto]

This post is great because I'm a former top 10 US raider and I loathe the mythic+ cesspool community. This post confirms my judgement.

I'm flattered that my opinion carries so much weight.

[Hayduke]

30 mins per dungeon sounds fine. but how often do you do 4 dungeons in a row with the same people, while nobody goes on a break, and everybody actually puts effort into traveling between the dungeons as fast as possible? in my experience M+ has a lot more little delays and breaks in between than raiding does which adds up. (and god forbid you are with people who want to push keys instead of just farm 4 dungeons, then it'll definitely take at least 3 hours to complete 4 dungeons)

I raid mythic raid thurs/mon 8pm-11pm. My M+ group meets at 8pm and typically runs 4x by...11pm. 4 dungeons (sometimes longer ones) + time in-between for breaks + travel time + deciding which key = essentially 3rd raid night. I joined a 2x a week guild for a reason

[Kaver]

If you do raid prog but refuse to do M+ then you are being carried. If you are just raid logging and putting no effort into improving your character then you are literally a burden on your group.

I think of it like this - It's a team sport and you refuse to turn up for practice each week before we play because you think you are better than everyone else even though you are overweight and never score.

What does everyone else think? We have a few people like this in my guild and it really pisses me off. It probably shouldn't but it honestly makes me feel like giving up when some of us are throwing everything we have at a boss whilst others may as well be afk. I know, find another guild. I just do not understand people like this and how little shame they must have.

You cannot shame people for not having the same ambitions as you. Especially if it's agreed upon within the guild that it's okay to raid log. It's your own mistake that you've joined a guild that doesn't match your ambitions. It's not fair to put the blame on other people just because you're not able to identify what guild you need to be in.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm sick of the community demanding that I do so.

But also sick of Blizzard for gating certain rewards behind specific content. Like Korthia. Or stygia. Or soul ash/cinders.

[Mardux]

Oh boy, this thread is a dumpster fire.

On one side you got people who like the grind and like the edge and wish their team members put forth similar efforts to match the edge, put vaguely enough that anyone can infer just enough to do vault or some unhealthy amount of grinding.

On the other side you have people triggered so hard they are mocking others. Whether through ignoring the actual question / context and just saying "breathe" or, somehow, presuming they have "no life".

Of which if WoW is your hobby it's not unreasonable to think someone will put around 3 hours per day every day into the game. Where the 3 hours can be two on Sunday and four on raid nights and others on other nights.

And then you have people who play 3 hours per week clearly very upset.

And you also have them acting like instead of them being carried, it's the REVERSE...

Nearly all of which is based off of nothing but their personal experiences and assuming no one has different experiences.

So if you're a prog Mythic guild -- then it's unreasonable to assume WoW is less than a significant hobby. You aren't 2+ mythic raiding and not at least a little serious.

In that context, if you were playing competitive but not professional baseball would you be upset others are putting in less work and not as dedicated as you are? Probably so.

More likely few of y'all are actually in progression guilds and likely can't compete so you're upset --or-- are in but barely holding on.

IF much of your guild is putting in way more effort than you then yeah, you may not like the truth that you're being carried and likely that upsets many people here down to their core.

If, however, you're putting the same or similar effort in, then nah. You're not and y'all are just a little more than casuals. Simple as that.

p.s. it's ok not to be in progression guilds and enjoying the game casually, much to the frustration of some hardcore people here.

- - - Updated - - -



They are probably just venting. It's quite possible they don't expect change and just need to let it out to feel validated.

"Oh boy," your reply is nearly nothing but hyperbole and strawman arguments.

[Echo of Soul]

But also sick of Blizzard for gating certain rewards behind specific content. Like Korthia. Or stygia. Or soul ash/cinders.

They should also stop with all these currencies. You shouldn't have to do a bunch of research before returning to the game, at least not for the core power progression loop. For optional content they can complicate things as much as they want.

You have rep, justice/valor, honor/conquest and gold. That's all the currencies you need in the game.

[ElDoorO]

"Oh boy," your reply is nearly nothing but hyperbole and strawman arguments.

Is that so? And your reply is... nothing. No contribution. No actual rebuttal. Nothing particularly useful to the conversation except showing you're upset.

I can't help but wonder if you're mad you can't make it into a prog build.. or if someone yelled at you and you got upset.

Or if you genuinely cannot, in any possible way, fathom people play differently than you. I'm going to go with this one.

Eerily similar to the "anyone driving faster than you is a maniac and anyone driving slower than you needs to speed up because you're never wrong, huh?

[Amsden]

I haven't touched M+ since legion and I'm Top 3 DPS in my guild. Knowing your class and encounter mechanics is much more important than a small Ilvl increase.

[Kayytee]

It's crazy how strongly some of you are reacting to OP's sentiment. Good forbid someone would expect you to put some actual effort into something. The witch hunt mentality is real...

[Azerate]

Well this is really simple.

If you want everyone to do m+ and put in equal effort, join a guild where people are required to do that, or just naturally all do that by themselves.

If you're voluntarily in a guild with different mindset, don't complain.

[Aphrel]

If it has been stated and agreed upon that everyone should do a weekly m+ for a 252 loot then thats what all should do, or they are an anchor (especially the first couple of weeks where the chance of an upgrade such as weaponslot is really high).
But later on like now i have a total of 1 slot where i could find an upgrade from m+ so its pretty irrelevant.

Same with korthia grind, what is the guild expectations? I know im in a guild that doesnt demand it, but still me and roughly half or maybe 2/3rds of the guild have done it but its not a stated requirement. The gains are somewhat big but at a pretty high time investment cost (about 1hour per 1k rep a day, so 30-40hours grind, and its a boring grind, a grind where you spam refresh in your lfg tool for rares....).

But overall if someone are slacking on side content that everyone else in your guild does, that person are an anchor.

[Smashfist]

Thanks for the carry then. I play LFR mainly because I don’t have time to play a lot these days (had a couple of server firsts in Wrath, top 5 guild on server at the end of BC so I’ve done some proper raiding). I very rarely play M+ as I hate timed dungeons with a passion and the gogogogogogogogogo mentality that comes with. Give me back Cata hard heroic dungeons and I’d be all over that.

[Echocho]

I don't do things I don't enjoy and I don't enjoy m+