You are being carried...

[Hangedman]

Some guilds require at least a minimum ilv, recently (yesterday) I've got surprised when I was on a interview for a new core, they saw my logs (average 88 (only 2 purple left for full orange/pink)) they didn't care about my DPS, just 50% atleast, but they've recruited me only bc of the amount of Defensives skills I've do use, and receiving low dmg.

[ayako]

Context is everything here. Is the guild one of those that pushes to be top 50 in the world? Because if not, then realistically you're getting your panties twisted over nothing. Now, the only way i'd say otherwise is if those members are noticeably lower geared than the rest of your guild. As in everyones sitting at 240+ and they're the few just rolling up at under 233. If that is the case, then absolutely, at least show some tiny bit of effort out of respect to your teammates. Hell, you're wasting your own time pulling your group back. However if the difference isn't that stark, then all the ilvl in the world can only do so much for a guild's progression.

I'll put myself and my own guild up as an example. I play the game primarily to PvP. All my boxes are PvP until i'm fully kitted out. I'll do some keys for trinkets if my guildmates have the location I need and i'm online when they're talking about it, but specifically going out and pugging is way too cancerous for me given that you need to do all the other keys additionally to get the IO score needed to get into the groups in the first place. It just isn't worth my time or sanity to burn through all that stuff for minor upgrades. So i'm probably similar but not the same to those that piss you off. My ilvl is up there because i'm a high level PvPer, but my secondary stats aren't BiS optimal.

Do I feel shame? Not in the slightest. Why do you ask? Because of context. My guild raids twice a week for 3 hours a night. We're currently progressing on mythic Painsmith, and I can say without a doubt that there isn't a single attempt on any of the bosses in the entire raid where overall group DPS being 0.76% higher meant the difference between a kill and another wipe. 1/13 = 7.65%, my gear is a mix of mythic raid, heroic raid, and pvp and my sim weights have crit at 1.73 and vers at 1.55. So if I could magically swap 450 vers into crit, it is still extremely unlikely that it would boost my personal damage more than 10% if even that. The entire raid doing under 1% more damage isn't going to stop the wipe that happens because 4 people couldn't dodge spikes in the first Painsmith intermission. Or get the star target positioning incorrectly for the mass dispel bounce on Nerzhul. Or get the healer cds not lined up correctly to recover from chain pops on Soulrender. Or the moron dps that dropped a goop right in front of the Eyeball while swapping sides.

My guild ALWAYS lands their first kills when the group as a whole FINALLY AFTER WHAT FEELS LIKE THOUSANDS OF ATTEMPTS execute on raid mechanics for the entire fight. It isn't some dps race where we finally got the kill despite losing half our guys or pulling off fight duration records on our kills. It is NOT FAILING to mechanics. It took my guild 2 1/2 nights to get through the first Painsmith intermission with under 2 deaths. Working on making it there consistently and now getting to the 2nd intermission with that same number alive.

My guild is like the VAST MAJORITY of guilds. Held back by individuals flopping on personal responsibility mechanics. Dodge that swirl. Pull that brand out of the raid. Dodge that moving spike while not running in a ball's path. Healthstone/Defensive if you're under 50% when that raid damage is coming. Me having zero fun grinding for weeks to min/max my own gear's secondary stats or pull my overall ilvl from 243 to 245 does absolutely nothing to help my guild's frost mage with using one of his two ice blocks to save himself from certain death that results when he tunnel visions boss mechanics to squeeze out that extra frostbolt before having to move.

The race to world first guilds are actually the perfect examples of this. Obviously they do splits and feed gear and the like and getting as good as gear as they can get early absolutely helps them. They're racing after all. But they still EXECUTE on personal responsibility and because of personal ability they kill these bosses in way worse gear than the vast vast majority of people even start attempting them in. So if someone wants to come to me and try to shame me because I don't want to grind Other Side for years to get the Crit/Haste max ilvl m+ gloves instead of the Haste/Mastery ones I have from heroic for the 35 dps increase (yes I simmed them at 239vs246) in a 7.3k sim result, well my obvious answer is "ok, good luck in your recruitment of someone who can actually execute raid mechanics as reliably as I did."

Well said.

[TheRevenantHero]

Mentalities like OP is why I quit mythic raiding. I play the game to have fun, not treat it like a fucking job.

[Snater]

It depends. If your group is killing bosses without too much problem, there would be no need for people to spend time outside raids. However, if your guild group is struggling to down a boss by a few % I can understand wanting to take only raiders who put in that little bit of extra effort to gear up outside of the raids. Besides, to get a 252 reward from the vault you only have to do 1 M+ 15. That's 20-40 minutes of your life and you don't even really have to time it.

[Sagenod]

Wow there's a really sensitive moderator pandering to OP's reporting isn't there...

Imagine feeling upset that someone isn't putting as much work as you are into a video game... A VIDEO GAME. Not a job. Stop trying to make your guildies treat it like one because that's what you like to do. If you can't handle playing with casuals it's time to move on friendo.

You don't understand how little shame people have in playing the game they want to... Seriously mate? You need a reality check

[rrayy]

Well I started the thread, replied to multiple comments and even thanked everyone for their advice. How much more contribution would you like from me? Perhaps a video response on YouTube? Maybe read the thread before commenting next time and you won't seem so silly.

How about somrthing other than "you seem triggered" or "I struck a nerve" as a response? YOu re gulty of exactly everything you have accused everyone else of

[fruitbasket102]

I feel like a lot of people are disagreeing with OP simply because they're feeling attacked.

Exacly they are making stupid excuses lol

[rrayy]

It's crazy how strongly some of you are reacting to OP's sentiment. Good forbid someone would expect you to put some actual effort into something. The witch hunt mentality is real...

Unless you are the leader of said guild, you have no right to expect anything, What you do have the right to do is join a guild that fits your play style or create your own guild and run it as you see fit. Trying to dictate to the leaders how they should run their guild is toxic and calling that behavior out is in no way a with hunt.

[Dzonathan]

If it's not enforced then it is not obligatory.

[MasterOfNone]

Cry more, Captain Nolife.

I play this shit to raid, not to rote learn eight dungeons the exact same way as everyone else from a guide I saw on the internet.

wait you can learn raid bosses but not dungeons with less mechanics? hmmmm

[Rozz]

Exacly they are making stupid excuses lol

Not really, encouraging the OP for trying to call out ppl for casual behavior in a casual guild says more about you all tbh

It's toxic behavior. He literally said "I just do not understand people like this and how little shame they must have."

Like, what's wrong with yall?

[Zantera]

I'd say it's quite common in most guilds no matter how serious they are that you get a few people at the top of the spectrum clearly putting in more time/effort into performing well and you get a few near the bottom of that scale who put in minimum time/effort, so maybe not that surprisingly you end up with some people thinking others in their guild are carried, or other people thinking the ones at the top are tryharding.

It's not much different from at a work place where you have colleagues who do the same tasks as you but you can tell one of them has double the tempo, doesn't overstay their break time in the lunch room and then you have another guy taking bathroom breaks every 30 mins and working at a snail's pace.

[Erous]

If you do raid prog but refuse to do M+ then you are being carried. If you are just raid logging and putting no effort into improving your character then you are literally a burden on your group.

I think of it like this - It's a team sport and you refuse to turn up for practice each week before we play because you think you are better than everyone else even though you are overweight and never score.

What does everyone else think? We have a few people like this in my guild and it really pisses me off. It probably shouldn't but it honestly makes me feel like giving up when some of us are throwing everything we have at a boss whilst others may as well be afk. I know, find another guild. I just do not understand people like this and how little shame they must have.

Thank you for proving the swamp cesspool that most assume of the M+ community is actually a fact and no longer an assumption.

[Very rare pepe]

I'd say it's quite common in most guilds no matter how serious they are that you get a few people at the top of the spectrum clearly putting in more time/effort into performing well and you get a few near the bottom of that scale who put in minimum time/effort, so maybe not that surprisingly you end up with some people thinking others in their guild are carried, or other people thinking the ones at the top are tryharding.

This was the exact situation in my last guild. The only way to get rid of this is to join a guild with the same mindset as your own like I had to. Sometimes you would like everyone to put in an expected level of effort into their chars, if they don't then move on.

[Lolites]

Thank you for proving the swamp cesspool that most assume of the M+ community is actually a fact and no longer an assumption.

nah, m+ community is fine
MMO-C community (and other forums to be fair) on the other hand...

[plz delete account]

If you do raid prog but refuse to do M+ then you are being carried. If you are just raid logging and putting no effort into improving your character then you are literally a burden on your group.

I think of it like this - It's a team sport and you refuse to turn up for practice each week before we play because you think you are better than everyone else even though you are overweight and never score.

What does everyone else think? We have a few people like this in my guild and it really pisses me off. It probably shouldn't but it honestly makes me feel like giving up when some of us are throwing everything we have at a boss whilst others may as well be afk. I know, find another guild. I just do not understand people like this and how little shame they must have.

Spoken like a raider salty because he got gkicked for starting fights with his guildies

[Soon-TM]

Thank you for proving the swamp cesspool that most assume of the M+ community is actually a fact and no longer an assumption.

Indeed, the more you read in these boards from the M+ self styled pros, the more it tells you about who actually the game is catering to.

[fruitbasket102]

Not really, encouraging the OP for trying to call out ppl for casual behavior in a casual guild says more about you all tbh

It's toxic behavior. He literally said "I just do not understand people like this and how little shame they must have."

Like, what's wrong with yall?

in the end you or anyone else doesn't have to do m+ if they don't want to
but it's not about that, it's about why are ppl making the issue so big like it's important decision ( i don't want etc )
it's just 1-4 dungeons per week, you don't have to analyze the situation any further, not everything is worth making a big deal of

[Rozz]

in the end you or anyone else doesn't have to do m+ if they don't want to
but it's not about that, it's about why are ppl making the issue so big like it's important decision ( i don't want etc )
it's just 1-4 dungeons per week, you don't have to analyze the situation any further, not everything is worth making a big deal of

But them not wanting to is what OP is making a big deal out of and you agree w/ the mocking sentiment.

That's strange and unhealthy, it's a game.

[Samuraijake]

if you wanna be a casual that brags about touching grass thats fine

just stay out of my fugging heroic/mythic raids.