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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by fruitbasket102 View Post
    in the end you or anyone else doesn't have to do m+ if they don't want to
    but it's not about that, it's about why are ppl making the issue so big like it's important decision ( i don't want etc )
    it's just 1-4 dungeons per week, you don't have to analyze the situation any further, not everything is worth making a big deal of
    Oh, in the end we have, because there’s nothing to do PvE side besides that and raids to raise our ilvl.

    And since in the game there’s nothing to do apart from trying to increase the ilvl… do the math.

    Luckily enough it’s not my problem anymore, went back to D3 and D2R where I can have all the gear I want playing whatever class/spec I want and in the way I want.

  2. #222
    To the OPs first post (which, I haven't read more of the thread because I don't have time for that), someone being carried is entirely dependent on the rest of the people this hypothetical person is playing with. It's really not a claim you get to make outside of your personal raid group.

    But this thread also goes to show some of the serious problems this game is facing right now.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Chriisto View Post
    If you do raid prog but refuse to do M+ then you are being carried. If you are just raid logging and putting no effort into improving your character then you are literally a burden on your group.

    I think of it like this - It's a team sport and you refuse to turn up for practice each week before we play because you think you are better than everyone else even though you are overweight and never score.

    What does everyone else think? We have a few people like this in my guild and it really pisses me off. It probably shouldn't but it honestly makes me feel like giving up when some of us are throwing everything we have at a boss whilst others may as well be afk. I know, find another guild. I just do not understand people like this and how little shame they must have.
    Real neato, kid. I've got better things to do then slave away at game system I have no interest in. Congrats. You've fallen victim to the skinner box. If you want to push world first progression, then, well, you said it - find another guild.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Selah View Post
    To the OPs first post (which, I haven't read more of the thread because I don't have time for that), someone being carried is entirely dependent on the rest of the people this hypothetical person is playing with. It's really not a claim you get to make outside of your personal raid group.

    But this thread also goes to show some of the serious problems this game is facing right now.
    Our raid groups got literally one person in our group that pushes the most content he can to get the most gear he can. Good on him. He plays a class that isn't particularly meta, but he does good damage. Sometimes he's top. That's great. He puts a lot of effort to do good damage on a class that doesn't do that great of damage. Meanwhile we got other people that MIGHT do 1 +15 a week if they're feeling frisky. Sometime they out-damage him, sometimes they down. My personal opinion is that this amazing DPS of ours shouldn't have to push himself to do every single thing he can each week to have an advantage. I know he has better things to do. The mythic+ system for gearing is hot garbage.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    Wow there's a really sensitive moderator pandering to OP's reporting isn't there...

    Imagine feeling upset that someone isn't putting as much work as you are into a video game... A VIDEO GAME. Not a job. Stop trying to make your guildies treat it like one because that's what you like to do. If you can't handle playing with casuals it's time to move on friendo.

    You don't understand how little shame people have in playing the game they want to... Seriously mate? You need a reality check
    Exactly this, also as someone stated before - there are many things that are more important. Playing mechanics correctly, using defensives, not putting extra strain on your raid healers by moving shit out of the group or soaking it.

    Of course, you can overgear things. It makes it easier, but don't pretend that you are a top player then.

  5. #225
    By the OPs logic, anyone who doesn't play the absolute meta class/spec and who's raid composition is the pure cutting edge meta composition is doing it wrong and is wasting everyone's time

    Yeah, I'm sure the 3 dps I'll gain from grinding out cancer content like Korthia is worth it....

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    Spoken like a raider salty because he got gkicked for starting fights with his guildies
    more like person who is in wrong guild

    he is clearly focused on progres while his guildies arent.

    and instead finding guild with people who have similiar view ike him he is wondering how to bully his guildies into spaming m+

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by fruitbasket102 View Post
    in the end you or anyone else doesn't have to do m+ if they don't want to
    but it's not about that, it's about why are ppl making the issue so big like it's important decision ( i don't want etc )
    it's just 1-4 dungeons per week, you don't have to analyze the situation any further, not everything is worth making a big deal of
    azg 3ala rask ya ebn elg7ba

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Excuses for what? This is a video game. Go outside.
    you are missing the point idiot

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Chriisto View Post
    If you do raid prog but refuse to do M+ then you are being carried. If you are just raid logging and putting no effort into improving your character then you are literally a burden on your group.

    I think of it like this - It's a team sport and you refuse to turn up for practice each week before we play because you think you are better than everyone else even though you are overweight and never score.

    What does everyone else think? We have a few people like this in my guild and it really pisses me off. It probably shouldn't but it honestly makes me feel like giving up when some of us are throwing everything we have at a boss whilst others may as well be afk. I know, find another guild. I just do not understand people like this and how little shame they must have.
    How much lower is their dps though? Are we talking about percentages, or just decimal percentages? Because in the end it matters a LOT more how good the player is at doing mechanics, than having 3 more ilvls.

    That being said, you should really look into trying to find a guild that shares your mindset, its a whole new world and you will most likely love it.
    Being in a guild that doesnt share your mindset gets on your nerves in the end. Never be afraid to move from one guild to another, especially if its because you have higher goals. I've left alts in the more social raiding guilds, then moved my main to the new hardcore and enjoyed both guilds at the same time, not breaking bonds and just having fun. Most leaderships will understand you if you just explain to them that you want to move on.
    Being a bitch and whining about people not pulling their weight and eventually rage quitting the guild is never good though.
    Last edited by Noxina; 2021-10-12 at 11:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    The 10% reward. It's was unspoken rule that you DONT attack other faction so everyone could enjoy the 10% reward. But now no one cares about that anymore

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    Exactly this, also as someone stated before - there are many things that are more important. Playing mechanics correctly, using defensives, not putting extra strain on your raid healers by moving shit out of the group or soaking it.

    Of course, you can overgear things. It makes it easier, but don't pretend that you are a top player then.
    Ironically those are things that one becomes good at by doing content that can kill them regularly outside of raids as well, such as m+.
    I can guarantee you that the average Raidlogger Randy, who does nothing but bitch about "mandatory grinds," will die in a fire much more frequently than someone who actually plays their character.
    (Although of course I know that obviously every raidlogger in this thread is amazing at mechanics and so are their guildies )

  10. #230
    I used to be one of the players you describe in the OP.
    Then i gave in and started doing my weekly M+.

    I lasted about 2 months, then decided WoW just isn't my game anymore.
    Now i have more time than I ever did, and Blizzard still has millions of other subscribers, just not this one.

    You can enjoy your game, with an attitude as elitist you want...
    but fact of the matter is that once enough people quit it's always the hardcore content being cut 1st.
    My point being: Yes, you are carrying people, but you carry them to finance your content.

  11. #231
    Its all perspective and mentality. No way is right or wrong as long as you do it in corporation with your teammates. If your guild is about as fast as possible progression within its means than you are right. If you just raid log and don't do the little things you are expecting to be carried by your guildmates that are doing these things. If your guild is just about logging in and killing some bosses in whatever fashion then it really doesn't matter if you are doing it or not. The problem usually arises when people are like.. well.. I want to kill all the bosses as fast as possible so I get the loots but... well.. you know.. don't really want to put more effort into it. The opposite is true as well of course. Sometimes people find themselves in a more casual environment and then want to drill sargent people into playing harder while guilt tripping them with being carried talk.

    Moral of the story is.. find a guild that fits your mentality. Even if it means your loot chances are a hair lower for a few weeks because you don't progress as fast.. and don't try to push people that have no desire to be pushed. Find a fit. You will be happier. The people around you will be.. well.. more like you are. Things will be better in the long run. Absolutely nothing wrong with finding your lane and cruising in it. Far far to often people want to jump into the fast lane with a minivan and are pissed people are tailgating them or get pissed off driving in the slow lane with a million dollar sports car when.. you know.. the lane they should be in is just a blinker away. Flip the blinker. Get in your lane. Life is better!

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Zmagoslav View Post
    I used to be one of the players you describe in the OP.
    Then i gave in and started doing my weekly M+.

    I lasted about 2 months, then decided WoW just isn't my game anymore.
    Now i have more time than I ever did, and Blizzard still has millions of other subscribers, just not this one.

    You can enjoy your game, with an attitude as elitist you want...
    but fact of the matter is that once enough people quit it's always the hardcore content being cut 1st.
    My point being: Yes, you are carrying people, but you carry them to finance your content.
    So what you're telling me... Is that you quit after having to do 8 dungeons over 8 weeks?
    I'm suspecting m+ had nothing to with it and you were just burned out in general.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    So what you're telling me... Is that you quit after having to do 8 dungeons over 8 weeks?
    I'm suspecting m+ had nothing to with it and you were just burned out in general.
    It was not just 8 dungeons over 8 weeks.
    It was much more the shift in daily chores towards a less pleasant task. SL itself has featured quite a shift in that; which pretty much ravaged my guild from the get-go.

    But then again, the whole thing doesn't matter anymore.
    I just wanted to point out that the hardcore players need casuals, who get "carried",
    just as much as whales in P2W games need F2P players.

    It is a symbiotic relationship; the good players need bad players... because in a game of "exclusively good players" nobody is really good in the end; everybody is just average in that hypothetic scenario.
    And with WoW it's even more so, seeing how hardcores represent a minority, but their content pretty much eats up the same resources and then some on top.

  14. #234
    I finally just stopped playing after *another* guild broke up in shadowlands. Doing mythic plus is important up to a point imo. I mained a warlock so once I got my Ruby trinket from Theater I didn't really spam M+ anymore. Some weeks not even one for a vault. I was so burned out I didn't care but I still parsed 85+ on prog.

    You're in the wrong guild if people not wanting to progress hard is pissing you off.

  15. #235
    What if you're raidloging but parsing 90+ in mythic and 98+ in heroic, is that still a burden on your group ?

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    I was never a fan of spamming dungeons before. Was not a fan of the challenge dungeons since it was all just shortcut taking BS, same with M+. If I was ever "required" to run them for any reason to raid, I'd just find a new guild. Thankfully we just raid for fun.
    I absolutely hate M+ and feel it completely ruined the game for me. I was in a bunch of different guilds since vanilla and finally found a great one day one of Pandaria that im still (technically) in today. We were a really laid back casual guild that pushed mythic raid content. M+ participation kept slowly climbing and when SL came out it was "if you don't do mythic plus you cant raid". This was in a guild that already had participation issues and we would more and more have to pug a person or two due to people not showing up. As i said, i cant fucking stand M+ and after years of never getting anything worth a shit from the weekly boxes i just stopped. I was already super burnt out at the time and was only showing up to raid because I just felt dedicated to the people ive known for so long. They noticed i wasnt doing M+ and my performance was falling behind badly and asked if i wanted to step down from raider rank and i was elated. This was back in February and i was like, man all this time to just collect pets and fuck around solo....well i completely stopped playing until like August lol. Came back and the guild was gone. Well, the guild was still there but no one was around. started talking on Discord to them and turns out like a month or so after I left shit just got bad. people not showing up, people fighting during raid and rage quitting.

    I occasionally log in now to run a torghast or stare at the screen for 5 minutes before saying "fuck this game" and logging out, but I'm always the only person in the guild online.

    Turns out a lot of people didnt want to run M+ and it divided everyone. Most people quit and play Guild Wars or FF, some went to other guilds.

    Fuck M+

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Chriisto View Post
    If you do raid prog but refuse to do M+ then you are being carried. If you are just raid logging and putting no effort into improving your character then you are literally a burden on your group.

    I think of it like this - It's a team sport and you refuse to turn up for practice each week before we play because you think you are better than everyone else even though you are overweight and never score.

    What does everyone else think? We have a few people like this in my guild and it really pisses me off. It probably shouldn't but it honestly makes me feel like giving up when some of us are throwing everything we have at a boss whilst others may as well be afk. I know, find another guild. I just do not understand people like this and how little shame they must have.
    I think you need to shut up. No one gives a shit how you want people to play the game.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Mentalities like OP is why I quit mythic raiding. I play the game to have fun, not treat it like a fucking job.
    I am in the exact same boat. I love our raids in Classic TBC just show up and raid for 6 hours a week kill bosses, shoot the shit and have fun. Then log off until the next week.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargas View Post
    I think you need to shut up. No one gives a shit how you want people to play the game.
    what i do not understand in this discussion topic is, why anyone in reality have problems with this at all?

    before you join a guild, you can ask how they handle this and what they expect besides raiding or what their philosophy is. the same as some companies want you to do stuff, or learning, etc outside of job time. if you dont like that, dont join em. there are others. same with guilds.

    so i see this not as a m+ or not m+ problem. i see this more as a „join a guild that matches your playstle“ problem.

  20. #240
    >What does everyone else think?
    I think that mythic+ was a god damn mistake, is counter to how mmo's should be, has no place in the game, and that people that raid log without doing mythic+ play the game as it should be done.

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