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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    So what you're telling us is that you would coast along if you weren't forced to do something to help society. You'd take advantage of the system. You'd stop working rather than risk supporting people that weren't working (for whatever reason). And because you think you're the centre of the universe, you're utterly convinced that everyone else thinks in the same self-serving, selfish way that you do.

    They don't. It's just you and a bunch of people like you. The good news is that the rest of us would still work even to support people like you, as you hypocritically sit back and coast. Because most people are just better than you.
    No, I'm saying plenty of people would, which is the problem. I have too much decency and work ethic to let others take care of me, but I know plenty who would. I also donate plenty of money, and help those around me. So, if you want to continue the narrative that I'm a selfish shitstain, then you will continue to be wrong.

    If people were genuinely generous and considerate, then socialism wouldn't need to be forced. You could set up your own voluntary socialist group, and you could all pay into it, and receive your very own self-funded UBI. heck, if people were as thoughtful as you think, then you could pull 10k random people out of a hat, and be able to do it.

    Endus brought up the Finnish test, which was 2k people. If such a plan is as viable as he things it is, and people are as decent as you think they are, then do one with 2k random people, and see how it ends up. Let everyone pitch in what you and they agree is a good amount, and have you all take care of each other.

    And I want to note, I wholeheartedly support the premise of voluntarism. It's the government I want. However, I also understand that humans are not even close to being able to pull it off right now. I genuinely wished humans were more decent, and les selfish.
    Last edited by Machismo; 2021-09-03 at 12:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Looking forward to the next time Machismo tries to shit on Trump supporters as though he has any credibility to do so, or is any different than them.
    Gotta wonder...he has such disdain for 95% of the US population and indifference toward the suffering and deaths of the disabled and elderly. And yet cried the blues when people took him to task about poor children getting fed...did he think that it was about rich children?
    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedSkull View Post
    Just raise the tax on the wealthy.
    Eventually will happen.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Gotta wonder...he has such disdain for 95% of the US population and indifference toward the suffering and deaths of the disabled and elderly. And yet cried the blues when people took him to task about poor children getting fed...did he think that it was about rich children? Eventually will happen.
    This is simply a lie. Actually, it's you lying about two things at once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It is how people are. The fact that these things are forced, shows that they wouldn't survive on their own... because people are self-serving assholes. If given a chance, there's enough outliers to make those systems unworkable.
    Now read this post of yours a couple of times, and let it sink in. No, really. It's the exact argument I've used against your libertarian ideas of "let's privatise everything, gogo, it goes great", while you've fought against it at every turn. If it wasn't true, you could not attempt to use it here either, whether it works in this particular case or not. Thanks for the freudian slip of how my arguments against your ideology each time have been on point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    Now read this post of yours a couple of times, and let it sink in. No, really. It's the exact argument I've used against your libertarian ideas of "let's privatise everything, gogo, it goes great", while you've fought against it at every turn. If it wasn't true, you could not attempt to use it here either, whether it works in this particular case or not. Thanks for the freudian slip of how my arguments against your ideology each time have been on point.
    I have long stated instantaneous libertarianism isn't feasible right now, because people are selfish, authoritarian assholes. It's why I have pushed for incremental change, like getting rid of the occasional bad law, or slowly reducing spending.

    I'm well aware that people are not ready for what I want this world to be. No, that's not me trying to sound like a condescending prick, it's just a simple reality of where humanity is at this time. I wholeheartedly believe in the ideology, and specifically voluntarism. But, I'm well aware that such things are not going to happen overnight. Think of libertarianism as the utopia, with me wanting small, manageable steps to get there. I am under no illusions that I will be alive to see its fruition, just like the socialists in here aren't going to be alive to see their utopia realized... because people are simply not capable of it. If they were capable of it, then it would not need to be forced.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    Now read this post of yours a couple of times, and let it sink in. No, really. It's the exact argument I've used against your libertarian ideas of "let's privatise everything, gogo, it goes great", while you've fought against it at every turn. If it wasn't true, you could not attempt to use it here either, whether it works in this particular case or not. Thanks for the freudian slip of how my arguments against your ideology each time have been on point.
    I'm waiting to hear how charity can replace social security and Medicare/Medicaid. I mean if it's such a great idea you might think they'd show government how it's done...o wait. They did! They already said "just wait until they're dead.."
    Libertarians give the guillotine a good name.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I have long stated instantaneous libertarianism isn't feasible right now, because people are selfish, authoritarian assholes. It's why I have pushed for incremental change, like getting rid of the occasional bad law, or slowly reducing spending.

    I'm well aware that people are not ready for what I want this world to be. No, that's not me trying to sound like a condescending prick, it's just a simple reality of where humanity is at this time. I wholeheartedly believe in the ideology, and specifically voluntarism. But, I'm well aware that such things are not going to happen overnight. Think of libertarianism as the utopia, with me wanting small, manageable steps to get there. I am under no illusions that I will be alive to see its fruition, just like the socialists in here aren't going to be alive to see their utopia realized... because people are simply not capable of it. If they were capable of it, then it would not need to be forced.
    It's very well possible that humanity will absolutely never be ready for something like what you dream of. It doesn't take that many jerk offs to go against the flow, and suddenly you have warlords rampaging around already. So, out of curiosity, what's the point of the ideology? Not happening in your, your children or grandchildrens lifetime, and quite possibly never.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I'm waiting to hear how charity can replace social security and Medicare/Medicaid. I mean if it's such a great idea you might think they'd show government how it's done...o wait. They did! They already said "just wait until they're dead.."
    Libertarians give the guillotine a good name.
    Thanks for agreeing with me that people are selfish. I love when socialists admit I'm right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Thanks for agreeing with me that people are selfish. I love when socialists admit I'm right.
    It’s funny how often you miss the point. Humans won’t stop being selfish, so your claim that charity will pick up the slack is bullshit.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    It's very well possible that humanity will absolutely never be ready for something like what you dream of. It doesn't take that many jerk offs to go against the flow, and suddenly you have warlords rampaging around already. So, out of curiosity, what's the point of the ideology? Not happening in your, your children or grandchildrens lifetime, and quite possibly never.
    I agree, it may never be ready. It may also never be ready for communism, or even socialism. That's why those things are implemented via authoritarianism and force. Without the threat of being shot in the face, they wouldn't comply.

    As for me, the point is an increase in individual liberty. I have no illusions that I will get to the goal, but even inching in that direction would be nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I agree, it may never be ready. It may also never be ready for communism, or even socialism. That's why those things are implemented via authoritarianism and force. Without the threat of being shot in the face, they wouldn't comply.

    As for me, the point is an increase in individual liberty. I have no illusions that I will get to the goal, but even inching in that direction would be nice.
    Definitely talking the same language there with the bolded part.

    As for the other. Inching in the direction at this time, in the context of this thread, leads to a fucking catastrophy. Is there a line you won't cross in the inching forward, or is any price, regardless of how high it is, acceptable in pursuit of the goal? And let's not kid ourselves, the price is very high in the context of this thread. Holocaust is for amateurs in comparison to what'd happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    As for me, the point is an increase in individual liberty. I have no illusions that I will get to the goal, but even inching in that direction would be nice.
    Since you are for individual responsibility and liberty, mind if I ask if you have any kind of insurance? Auto, home, health?

    If you do, then you are basically going against your own philosophy. Insurance is paid from a pool of everyone who has insurance so that no one person can be forced to foot the entire bill in the event something major comes by and causes a lot of damage. You are offsetting your bills(if you use insurance) onto everyone else who pays into said insurance pool.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    It’s funny how often you miss the point. Humans won’t stop being selfish, so your claim that charity will pick up the slack is bullshit.
    That's the only way he can imagine he sees anyone agreeing with him.
    And then there's the "if you don't respond I win" schtick. Which is similar to what Ron Paul supposedly did when he said "if you don't vote for my bill, I win."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    So, out of curiosity, what's the point of the ideology? Not happening in your, your children or grandchildrens lifetime, and quite possibly never.
    A rich man's wet dream to fight off other ideologies. I mean we have other countries calling itself "Communist" and "Socialist." But of almost 200 countries in the world not a single one would or ever will call itself "Libertarian."

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    That's the only way he can imagine he sees anyone agreeing with him.
    And then there's the "if you don't respond I win" schtick. Which is similar to what Ron Paul supposedly did when he said "if you don't vote for my bill, I win."

    - - - Updated - - -

    A rich man's wet dream to fight off other ideologies. I mean we have other countries calling itself "Communist" and "Socialist." But of almost 200 countries in the world not a single one would or ever will call itself "Libertarian."
    When you really dig down Machismo is just advocating for corporate feudalism.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    A rich man's wet dream to fight off other ideologies. I mean we have other countries calling itself "Communist" and "Socialist." But of almost 200 countries in the world not a single one would or ever will call itself "Libertarian."
    There are countries however, where the government is "small", aka ineffectual enough for the country be ruled by different tribes, cartels and warlords. That's the closest one gets to libertarian dream in the current day. Say....Somalia for example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I'm in my 40's, so fairly old. Yes, I live within my means.
    So, that's a yes on the "muppets that claims to feed their family rice and beans for an average of $2 a meal all week" bit?

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    So, that's a yes on the "muppets that claims to feed their family rice and beans for an average of $2 a meal all week" bit?
    "And you too, for only the price of a cup of coffee per month, can make sure Sally Struthers can sit and eat in front of some impoverished children in Africa while they watch her do so."

  18. #198
    Immortal Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Nah, misanthropy is wanting other people to pay for it, wile you shoulder no more of a burden. Or, are you an American earning more than $130k a year?
    I am, bring it on.
    Shit needs to change.
    Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
    You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

    Sovereign
    Mass Effect

  19. #199
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    No, the point is that the government isn't needed to support them in that aspect in the first place. My point is that the goal should be to push for more personal responsibility.
    "Personal responsibility" is just a buzzword for you wanting to watch people suffer and die, and feel noble for enjoying it. You're seeking an excuse to hurt people. It doesn't go any deeper than that.

    Case in point; this thread is about social security, and your desire to eliminate it. Which doesn't affect people who lacked "personal responsibility", it hurts those who planned to rely upon this fund they paid into their entire working careers. It isn't about personal responsibility or the like. It's just sadism, directed at those most-easily victimized.

    As for the point of it being voluntary, it goes against the argument that people will keep on chugging along, if you can simply coast, and get shit for free. If things like SS or a UBI were truly universal, and had no requirements, then more and more people would take advantage of the system as a whole. The fact that these things need to be forced, is the evidence. It forces people into compliance, because they know that it wouldn't survive it it was entirely voluntary. To put it bluntly the people making the money, and the people doing the work, would stop supporting the people who are providing nothing.
    That isn't "evidence" at all. It's something you're making up. It is not true. Which is why you can't cite any actual data, any real evidence, to back your position up.

    Because it's all lies, told to justify a desire to inflict suffering on the vulnerable.


  20. #200
    @Machismo

    Anyone who reads this thread will have no choice but to come to the conclusion that, you are a pure monster who ignores reality at every stretch in efforts to get to the ideological conclusion he wants and actively WANTS to cause suffering and death.

    The undertones of this line of thinking is similar to Peacemakers in the Suicide Squad movie, You love freedom so much you will kill every man, woman, and child to make sure that you have are so free you can even take the freedom of others from them.

    Either that, or you are a giant stage act at this point. At which point, you are really good at the act.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

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