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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    dunno,i can buy that the raw numbers are close to 50-50,but the reality at endgame is nowhere near that,just look at wowprogress,also in my own experience i have seen it,my guild has been aliance until we changed in legion,we saw an insane level of difference,not only did the pool of recruits increase greatly,but so did their quality
    I don't think anybody would argue that endgame isn't heavily Horde favored. It's like that because of the shit Blizzard pulled back in Cata/MoP. They let Horde racials be ridiculously overpowered for two entire expansions and a lot of competitive guilds hopped sides. They fixed it by WoD but the damage had already been done at that point. Because the problem is largely a social one (and not one driven specifically by numbers), Blizzard has been hesitant to approach it. At 2019 BlizzCon, Ion's answer to the question was a flat no. Then before SL was released he mentioned that it was on the developers' radar. And now, at the midway point of the expansion he's on Twitter saying that they need to do something about it. It's anybody's guess when Blizzard will make changes but we could see it as early as 9.3 at this rate.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2021-09-07 at 05:40 AM.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    I don't think anybody would argue that endgame is heavily Horde favored. It's like that because of the shit Blizzard pulled back in Cata/MoP. They let Horde racials be ridiculously overpowered for two entire expansions and a lot of competitive guilds hopped sides. They fixed it by WoD but the damage had already been done at that point. Because the problem is largely a social one (and not one driven specifically by numbers), Blizzard has been hesitant to approach it. At 2019 BlizzCon, Ion's answer to the question was a flat no. Then before SL was released he mentioned that it was on the developers' radar. And now, at the midway point of the expansion he's on Twitter saying that they need to do something about it. It's anybody's guess when Blizzard will make changes but we could see it as early as 9.3 at this rate.
    the issue was also reversed in wrath and cata with the pvp crowd being pretty much only humans,i rly dont see a way to fix this,like you said,its mostly social,and even if they overbuff aliance stuff it will just switch the pendulum,the only solution here is proly just cross faction,maybe even guilds,and make some neutral base cities

  3. #63
    With exception of Orcs, I prefer ally and was alliance from 2008-2018. I'd go back to ally for most classes if they did cross faction.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by marcusblood View Post
    With exception of Orcs, I prefer ally and was alliance from 2008-2018. I'd go back to ally for most classes if they did cross faction.
    From an aesthetics standpoint almost all of the Alliance races simply look better.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    From an aesthetics standpoint almost all of the Alliance races simply look better.
    Agreed. I really love Orcs for Shaman, Warlocks, Warriors, and DKs. But everything else I prefer alliance, especially Draenei pallies, Worgen Rogues, etc. But I do like alliance races for warriors and DKs as well.

  6. #66
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Something something hur durr this is wurcraft, mah immershuns, must wur. I can't separate gameplay from story so they shouldn't do this thing that would obviously be immensely helpful for the over all health of the game.

  7. #67
    The racials were a big factor to many people changing over to horde. At this point I think the sheer numbers on the horde side favours rolling that side. Its only logical. More players, more chances of doing group content. Bigger pool of guilds, communities etc to choose from.

    The whole faction war has also grown thin. BfA should be the last time a faction war happend, and even that wasnt really alliance against horde, but alliance against Sylvanas and some of the horde.

    Both factions has always worked together to fight the bigger foe and at this point we might aswell do everything together. Make warmode a free for all were your only friendlies are those you are grouped with.

  8. #68
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Faction divide even to this day is much closer to 50/50 than a lot of players on forums will lead you to believe. That isn't to downplay the problem or shut down support of cross-faction, just wanted to point that the exaggerated takes you see on this forum aren't always representative of the actual situation.
    I have no doubt that the actual faction representation running around in the game is less severe of a divide, but that's not entirely relevant to the thread. The concerns lie with who is doing pve endgame, and that is almost entirely horde. Anyone who has experience puging both sides can see the massive disparity just in group availability, nevermind issues like recruitment, etc. That there are a fair number of alliance players running around who don't participate much in end game or who do primarily pvp is really just a red herring to the problem.

    Anyway.

    Doing something cross faction is really the only way to go at this point. There's too many years of momentum behind the faction imbalance that it can't be solved by something simple like a racial redesign. I am also very skeptical that this is a "money from store services" issue either. I think in a game this age, most people would be more inclined to just stop playing if they couldn't find people to play with, rather than paying to faction transfer, especially if they have an army of alts they'd like to keep together. Besides that, I feel like if someone attempting Alliance endgame hasn't paid to faction change already, they probably have some good reasons that will dissuade them from ever doing it.

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  9. #69
    I don't see it coming 'soon' since we are likely not going to get anything faction related till the 10.0 pre-patch

    but they definitely have to do something. No amount of blizzard BS or shilling can spackle the gaping hole where the alliance raiding scene was. I doubt they can remove factions all together like some are speculating but there must be something in the works, I just for the life of me can't guess it the problem was left to fester for so long any easy or simple solution just won't cut it anymore.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by LostSinclair View Post
    I don't see it coming 'soon' since we are likely not going to get anything faction related till the 10.0 pre-patch

    but they definitely have to do something. No amount of blizzard BS or shilling can spackle the gaping hole where the alliance raiding scene was. I doubt they can remove factions all together like some are speculating but there must be something in the works, I just for the life of me can't guess it the problem was left to fester for so long any easy or simple solution just won't cut it anymore.
    Considering Ion's position has gone from "nope" to "yeah we hear you" to "yeah we gotta do something," over the course of just over a year I'd say that it's possible we can see something as early as 9.3 (if we get a 9.3).
    Last edited by Relapses; 2021-09-07 at 08:35 PM.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Considering Ion's position has gone from "nope" to "yeah to we hear you" to "yeah we gotta do something," over the course of just over a year I'd say that it's possible we can see something as early as 9.3 (if we get a 9.3).
    Not impossible but releasing a giant change (whatever the hell it may be) Right at the beginning of a raid patch seems unlikely in my opinion. Now we could 'hear' about it that early if only to give some players hope and to keep subbing, that's something I could see Blizzard doing. And I share your skepticism about 9.3, think we're going to get another WoD experience and have all of the eggs placed into the 10.0 basket.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by LostSinclair View Post
    Not impossible but releasing a giant change (whatever the hell it may be) Right at the beginning of a raid patch seems unlikely in my opinion. Now we could 'hear' about it that early if only to give some players hope and to keep subbing, that's something I could see Blizzard doing. And I share your skepticism about 9.3, think we're going to get another WoD experience and have all of the eggs placed into the 10.0 basket.
    To be honest a couple months before a new expansion would be a good moment to introduce. It's a massive change and IMO dealing with whatever it breaks in the game at the end of an expansion should be easier than at the start when all kinds of things need attention.

    Also Blizzard will make a shit ton of money from it so why not get the money earlier.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Also Blizzard will make a shit ton of money from it so why not get the money earlier.
    This part.

    It's actually insane how many people seem to think that the reason Blizzard doesn't do it is monetarily motivated.

  14. #74
    Alliance player- I'm going to work on toon and do heroic raiding and see what mythic is like.
    Alliance Population- Well I cleared heroic but good grief where are all the mythic guilds that go past 5 bosses?
    Blizzard- Just wait, this idiot will spend the faction transfer fee, just wait.
    Alliance player- I'm going to spend this money or just go casual.

    I just realized this is like everything else blizz does that we can't stand. Is there some kind of legal term for a service provider knowingly inviting customers to use their product that is not capable of providing what they advertise?

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Gratz View Post
    I just realized this is like everything else blizz does that we can't stand. Is there some kind of legal term for a service provider knowingly inviting customers to use their product that is not capable of providing what they advertise?
    You're pretending like there aren't ANY mythic guilds on Alliance. There are. There's everything there is on Horde, just less in number and slower in progression. That's not Blizzard being "incapable of providing what they advertise", that's you being hyperbolic because things aren't balanced.

    Don't get me wrong, I do also believe faction imbalance IS a problem. But let's be rational about this, and not go "omg Alliance is like LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to play" and other nonsense like that. It doesn't help anyone.

  16. #76
    It's not even just raiding and m+, world content is Horde-favoured too. If you do Korthia, there are much more groups on horde side for rares by a large margin.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    correct me if i'm wrong but Merc mode for PVP only works cause players don't see you as an Orc fighting for the alliance right?

    for PVE and pre-made grouping and such where you see horde races mixed with alliance ones no, not as a general thing.. factions need to stay as they are.
    If it's such a concern of immersion they can give it the BfA BoD treatment.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    If it's such a concern of immersion they can give it the BfA BoD treatment.
    the changing sides thing??? god no.. i ran that raid once because of that....
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  19. #79
    Immortal roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    The faction war would have realistically ended the moment a greater threat required the combined forces of the Horde and Alliance. Just like in real life. A NATO would have been put into place. Especially after Garrosh, there is literally no way the Alliance wouldn't do exactly what Wrathion thought they would do. Moreover, there's no way in hell an entire nation of magical elves would throw their weight behind any one faction. Why? For what reason? The Alliance isn't a threat to Suramar, neither is the Horde. And Suramar doesn't need anything from either.

    Faction war was fun, no longer needed, end it. You could just as easily put more focus into things like covenants or Scryer v. Aldor type stuff.
    Last edited by roahn the warlock; 2021-09-08 at 04:18 AM.
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    You're pretending like there aren't ANY mythic guilds on Alliance. There are. There's everything there is on Horde, just less in number and slower in progression. That's not Blizzard being "incapable of providing what they advertise", that's you being hyperbolic because things aren't balanced.


    Don't get me wrong, I do also believe faction imbalance IS a problem. But let's be rational about this, and not go "omg Alliance is like LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to play" and other nonsense like that. It doesn't help anyone.
    So you admit that everything is slower and less population but I am the one pretending something exist that doesn't?

    I literally didn't say that. You did. You are pretending this isn't real. Sorry, it is. Your reply makes more sense about 8 years ago. And why did you make up a quote or use one without citing the actual poster as if I said it to prove something? Being the nothing to see here person is how we ended up with the current state of WoW.
    Last edited by Gratz; 2021-09-08 at 08:01 AM.

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