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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    The whole fundament of the Warcraft Universe is built around the conflict between the Horde and Alliance. But hey who cares that this Orc/Human killed my whole family let's raid together.
    Wtf. Have you even played the games? Nevermind distinguish mechanics from lore?

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
    Wtf. Have you even played the games? Nevermind distinguish mechanics from lore?
    Honestly his silly reply made me think of how its actually kinda strange how many major chars actually have very little experience with the other faction killing family members, and when it is, its the old demon controlled horde from when they were barely a toddler.

    He also phrases it like raids are some family friendly party or something, and over half of them are about stopping world domination and another chunk about saving the whole universe. But nah, lets be grumpy about the other side while at the same time accepting quests from people of the other side.

  3. #163
    THey need to end factions in instanced PvE and PvP, or they need to make their realm merging a lot more dynamic, in a way that realms low on alliance instantly link with servers which are high on alliance to make sure both factions are balanced for the people playing in those realms.

    I'd prefer if factions were maintained, but If a technical solution such as above is not possible, then I'd rather not have factions at all.

    We've pretty much fought together in nearly all expansions to defeat badies, so why not?

  4. #164
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    Honestly it's too much of a hassle to try and maintain factions by limiting what you can roll or any of that other jargon to try to force things to be equal.

    Just let Horde/Alliance do instanced PvP and PvE together, and perhaps just be in the same guild. If it's a problem from a story perspective (going forward), just swap the faction upon entering a raid like they did in BoD.

    I'm going to guess that with barriers lowered you would probably see loads of Alliance who were 'forced' to play Horde swap back, and plenty of Horde that just prefer the way certain Alliance races look (or meta gaming racials) to play Alliance. Hilariously enough you would probably see way more race swapping if you lowered these barriers and likely bring the factions from a number perspective close together.

    Arenas already make sense for having different races teaming up anyway. Narratives and story can still be changed around if needed by forcibly swapping races in say a raid encounter if need be. For whatever else, who really cares? Maintaining faction specific quests and world PvP is about all that really matters.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    You are wrong on every account.

    No, it wouldn't allow factions to mix, it would allow players to mix.
    Something that we've been doing lorewise since the fucking get go.

    The players have been, and should be from a gameplay and story point of view, independent.

    Unless Blizzard wants to rename the game into World of Hordecraft in a couple years time, it absolutely is needed.



    Ah yes, the entire story of game.
    Nvm that it entirely revolves around horde and alliance setting their differences aside to work together, lol.
    From the start of the game its either been the factions going after the same goal (enemy of my enemy) or at war. They don't live together, the game isn't based around mercs teaming up to defeat super bads, its this way since the get go. It might not be what you want to hear but if you want to team up with your buddy whos in a different faction so bad create a character in that faction and have at it. This isn't needed. It is a matter of convenience for folks that want it "their way, and here's why" and there are a lot of people that don't want it that way. Having the populations go up and down have always been a thing. Look for server merges.

    Edited to add: I guess the alternative is to have everyone go horde so there is a huge blinking neon sign for blizz devs to look at and help find solutions. Homogenizing server groups and PVP servers was the start of issues. There use to be a since of pride in large pop Alliance servers and Horde servers that kept them full and kept faction pride alive. They have watered down all of that to a point it doesn't matter.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    That wouldn't solve the group activity problem, though.

    Your Alliance char would be max Renown and exalted with everything, but there still wouldn't be nearly as many people running M+ or mythic raids on that side compared to Horde. I don't think that Renown/reputation etc. are what's holding people back from going Alliance - it's the fact that it's so much harder to find groups for anything.
    At that point I still don't think allowing factions to merge in content is the answer. It's not something I will be on board with. I play and have played both factions, I am not having these issues on either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    The mass exodus from the Alliance isn't being caused by the racial traits, at least not anymore. Arguably, the Alliance has better ones at this point with things like Shadowmeld & the crazy stuff Mechagnomes have. The problem is, as Ion correctly stated at Blizzcon, a "social" problem at this point. The high end guilds all went towards the Horde which caused high end players to follow them which diluted the recruitment pool for Alliance raiders. This has led to more guilds going Horde to get more recruits, which leads to more players going to the Horde because that's where the guilds are...etc. It's a seemingly never-ending cycle that really doesn't have an elegant solution. Adjusting racials to be more attractive would likely either do nothing or just shift the high end players all to the Alliance, pending how strong the new racials were.

    At this point, it is not an exaggeration to say that raiding on the Alliance is self-handicapping, due to the difference in guild/players available. Without some sort of cross-faction raiding, it's hard to see what actually would fix this issue.


    While I don't disagree that account-wide reputations, achievements, renown, etc would be good for the game in general, I can't see where this does anything to help with the Alliance-to-Horde exodus we've been seeing. This just means that people would have less grinding to do on their newly transferred Horde alts used to get raiding mats for their now-Horde mains. If I'm a raid leader recruiting who sees this high end faction population disparity, what about account wide renown would cause me to not opt to move my guild to the Horde where most of the high end raiders/M+ personnel are?

    Why exactly would this incentivize anyone to actually raid on the opposite faction rather than just maybe make another alt?
    In all honesty I'm not sure there are that many people who actually want this though. I'm not seeing the normal blasts of posts.
    Last edited by InflaterMouse; 2021-09-15 at 09:13 PM.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by InflaterMouse View Post
    I play and have played both factions, I am not having these issues on either.
    If you're not having more trouble finding groups on Ally than on Horde, you're either playing with a very stable group of peers, or you're simply not participating in high-level content. Either way - "I'm not having this problem" isn't really an argument, because we have plenty of evidence (both data and testimonials) that many people ARE having this problem.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    If you're not having more trouble finding groups on Ally than on Horde, you're either playing with a very stable group of peers, or you're simply not participating in high-level content. Either way - "I'm not having this problem" isn't really an argument, because we have plenty of evidence (both data and testimonials) that many people ARE having this problem.
    It absolutely does not even have to be high level content to run into a problem. Outside of primetime, even finding normal raid PuGs or low keys can be very challenging.

    Just for an example, right now on Alliance NA there are a total of six keys in the +2-8 keyrange. Just six, and only four dungeons are represented in that number so if you're looking for a specific place you might be SOL. And if you are looking for higher keys, well, Alliance has a whole of three to choose from in the 20 or higher range. Hordeside has seventeen and openings for a variety of roles, although its harder to count there because keys are being listed and filled faster than I count, which is definitely not the case on Alliance. Sanctum normal mode has six raid pugs on Alliance, and sixteen on Horde. The different between heroic is even more dramatic but I am too lazy to count the Horde listings because there's so many.

    And this is entering into peak evening playtimes. On offhours, Alliance PuG scene is a wasteland for almost any content.

    I have looked for sub10 keys on offhours on Allianceside alts before and found none. That's fairly extreme and there are almost always at least a handful of listings, but definitely not enough that a person could seek out a particular dungeon or anything. I've never had a problem on Horde targetting specific keys at almost any time of day.

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  8. #168
    So in conclusion, merge the factions?

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by sensei View Post
    Final Fantasy XIV has no factions and everyone says they're stealing WoW's players soooo
    FF is built on a VERY different story though.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by InflaterMouse View Post
    At that point I still don't think allowing factions to merge in content is the answer. It's not something I will be on board with. I play and have played both factions, I am not having these issues on either.
    To what extent have you played them? Do you raid at a mythic level or do M+ on each faction? Have you had to hunt for guilds/recruits on either faction? That is likely more where you will see these issues in abundance.

    Quote Originally Posted by InflaterMouse View Post
    In all honesty I'm not sure there are that many people who actually want this though. I'm not seeing the normal blasts of posts.
    There are still plenty of them. If you go to the r/wow reddit forum and search for "cross-faction" or "faction imbalance" or similar terms, you'll find plenty of them. Plus it gets brought up a pretty good amount in the 10.0 speculation thread...in addition to this thread, of course.

    That's not even to talk about the people who have it on their list of issues, but have either left the community due to the other Blizzard issues of the last few months or consider it not as big as the other issues in game.

  11. #171
    cross faction soon ? i hope not.

    First gnome or nightelf in my raid and i quit. If alliance player are not pleased with the situation, they can change the faction. Level a new char or pay the faction change. There is simply no reason to force all horde players into grouping with alliance.
    Last edited by Bee76; 2021-09-15 at 11:17 PM.

  12. #172
    Cross faction is required to save this game, it's impossible to raid on Alliance right now!

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    It has always surprised me that they never incentivized playing the lesser-played faction more.
    You must have missed Warmode with 30% extra rewards for Alliance for most of its existence.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    To what extent have you played them? Do you raid at a mythic level or do M+ on each faction? Have you had to hunt for guilds/recruits on either faction? That is likely more where you will see these issues in abundance.


    There are still plenty of them. If you go to the r/wow reddit forum and search for "cross-faction" or "faction imbalance" or similar terms, you'll find plenty of them. Plus it gets brought up a pretty good amount in the 10.0 speculation thread...in addition to this thread, of course.

    That's not even to talk about the people who have it on their list of issues, but have either left the community due to the other Blizzard issues of the last few months or consider it not as big as the other issues in game.
    I run mythics on alliance 99% of the time and a post above has someone saying there are only 6 keys listed in NA....there are dozens. Maybe move to a more populated server? I hit refresh and there are new keys EVERY time I hit the button. On horde I mostly run mythics here of late because my schedule has changed but ran a pick up heroic last weekend at 3AM CST, which was listed with maybe 10-12 other ongoing heroic raids in LFG and maybe about the same number of normal, didn't count them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    If you're not having more trouble finding groups on Ally than on Horde, you're either playing with a very stable group of peers, or you're simply not participating in high-level content. Either way - "I'm not having this problem" isn't really an argument, because we have plenty of evidence (both data and testimonials) that many people ARE having this problem.
    Or I play on populated servers? "I'm not having this problem" isn't a part of the argument, I am simply not seeing what people are seeing in this thread. I do now and always have played high population servers and I am simply not seeing this. Testimonials are just like someone saying "I'm not having this problem" btw.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    It absolutely does not even have to be high level content to run into a problem. Outside of primetime, even finding normal raid PuGs or low keys can be very challenging.

    Just for an example, right now on Alliance NA there are a total of six keys in the +2-8 keyrange. Just six, and only four dungeons are represented in that number so if you're looking for a specific place you might be SOL. And if you are looking for higher keys, well, Alliance has a whole of three to choose from in the 20 or higher range. Hordeside has seventeen and openings for a variety of roles, although its harder to count there because keys are being listed and filled faster than I count, which is definitely not the case on Alliance. Sanctum normal mode has six raid pugs on Alliance, and sixteen on Horde. The different between heroic is even more dramatic but I am too lazy to count the Horde listings because there's so many.

    And this is entering into peak evening playtimes. On offhours, Alliance PuG scene is a wasteland for almost any content.

    I have looked for sub10 keys on offhours on Allianceside alts before and found none. That's fairly extreme and there are almost always at least a handful of listings, but definitely not enough that a person could seek out a particular dungeon or anything. I've never had a problem on Horde targetting specific keys at almost any time of day.
    Maybe swap horde until blizz can deal with the issues?

  15. #175
    "cross faction soon ? i hope not.

    First gnome or nightelf in my raid and i quit. If alliance player are not pleased with the situation, they can change the faction. Level a new char or pay the faction change. There is simply no reason to force all horde players into grouping with alliance."

    Awesome community attitude right here. I guess you will just join a horde only guild when this happens. In a way it will increase your immersion. So a positive overall for you.

  16. #176
    They could set it as another option in place of warmode. So you can select between mercenary, normal, and warmode. Normal and warmode, you'll only be queued with your faction. Mercenary means you cannot attack anybody in your party (except in FFA PVP areas), and your pvp status lists you as orange to anybody in your party/raid (you are still hostile to others outside your group). You can be queued cross-faction if it would be faster than queing with your own, and you can create/join cross-faction groups for dungeon/raid/open world content. You still cannot enter faction capitals or non-neutral towns, though, so be careful. Your mercenary status does not mean you're friendly with the opposite faction.

    Then everybody gets to have it their way. Same faction as the leader of the party/raid will take priority in all modes.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by InflaterMouse View Post
    Or I play on populated servers? "I'm not having this problem" isn't a part of the argument, I am simply not seeing what people are seeing in this thread. I do now and always have played high population servers and I am simply not seeing this. Testimonials are just like someone saying "I'm not having this problem" btw.
    I'm glad you're not having that problem, but that doesn't just translate to other people's experience. Testimonials are subjective that's for sure (and by definition), but it's the number of them that raise concerns; and they are then augmented by actual data (which is not subjective) to paint a very grim picture.

    It's cool if you're not affected, but it's ABUNDANTLY clear that MANY people are. You may not be one of them, but that doesn't mean you can pretend that therefore the problem doesn't exist.

    I also have not gone without food for extended periods of time. Neither have the people in my peer groups. But to conclude that therefore hunger is not a problem in the world would be ludicrous.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by InflaterMouse View Post
    I run mythics on alliance 99% of the time and a post above has someone saying there are only 6 keys listed in NA....there are dozens. Maybe move to a more populated server? I hit refresh and there are new keys EVERY time I hit the button.

    Or I play on populated servers? "I'm not having this problem" isn't a part of the argument, I am simply not seeing what people are seeing in this thread. I do now and always have played high population servers and I am simply not seeing this. Testimonials are just like someone saying "I'm not having this problem" btw.
    I'm kinda baffled you think server population has anything to do with it. The group finder is cross realm. Groups from large servers show up just as much for low pop ones. The only variability really is time, since there are obviously a lot more Alliance options if you play at peak times.

    It's easy enough to do a quick search Alliance side and then immediately swap to Hordeside and see the disparity in numbers. There is a difference even in the low key ranges but especially true for higher keys. Right now there are TWO keys only for higher than 19 on Alliance side [edit: a third listed right as I typed this]. Horde has close to a dozen, although again the list is actually changing as groups are filled and new ones pop up unlike Alliance side which has had the same DOS and Mists listed for 7+ minutes at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by InflaterMouse View Post
    Maybe swap horde until blizz can deal with the issues?
    I play Horde heavily also, but the solution is not "feed Blizz more money until they hope they can one day fix the fucking problem." Presumably the reason anyone that cares about end-game PvE but still plays Alliance is there because of a good reason, or they would have swapped a long time ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I'm glad you're not having that problem, but that doesn't just translate to other people's experience. Testimonials are subjective that's for sure (and by definition), but it's the number of them that raise concerns; and they are then augmented by actual data (which is not subjective) to paint a very grim picture.
    I mean, it's not really subjective. You can look at raider.io and also see the disparity in pve activity in hard numbers. Nevermind just that nearly all the high end progression is Hordeside, just pure volume including average player content there is vastly less happening on Alliance.
    Last edited by Tziva; 2021-09-16 at 10:23 PM.

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  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I mean, it's not really subjective. You can look at raider.io and also see the disparity in pve activity in hard numbers. Nevermind just that nearly all the high end progression is Hordeside, just pure volume including average player content there is vastly less happening on Alliance.
    That's data, not testimonials. If someone says "well I had a bad time" that's a testimonial - one subjective experience; if 5,000 people say it, it's still subjective, but it becomes something worth looking into. And then you can get data like e.g. the one on RIO that you mentioned, to get an objective confirmation.

  20. #180
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