Patch 9.1.5 PTR - Build 39977

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Odd. Unfortunate timing then, I guess.

What's that bit about Grom's name? Can you elaborate?

Warhammer has an orc war lord named Grom the Paunch from way back. Because they try and copy right every thing they can they did so with his name which is why in reforged grom is instead called hellsream by every one.

[LemonDemonGirl]

"My sack is Gigantique" -> double entendre between bag and scrotum. This I don't get why they replaced it, other than it's a bit crude I don't find it specially sexist.

"Bros. Before Ho Ho Ho's" -> https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...0before%20hoes
This, I totally get it.

There's still Bros before Hozen I think? That was a quest back in MoP

[Yarathir]

It makes it a lot easier when they don't have to manually adjust bespoke meshes for nearly two dozen different models with varied proportions and default poses.

I've always seen this type of defense lobbed to excuse Blizzard just recently finding a way to tack pieces of cardboard to your character's chest.

Meanwhile, you have Hrothgar and Lalafell, those don't just auto-fit gear either. I think it's become kind of a cliché to go "yeah well ffxiv has all the same bodytypes so np," when not only they don't, but they also have height sliders and breast sliders and all kinds of things that would require adjustments (regardless of whether it was automated or not) for the armor to fit it well enough.

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i guess thats how you fight racism etc etc

Yes, but genocide is okay because.. uhm.. dead elf lady very pretty and probably didn't mean it.

[Kathranis]

I've always seen this type of defense lobbed to excuse Blizzard just recently finding a way to tack pieces of cardboard to your character's chest.

Meanwhile, you have Hrothgar and Lalafell, those don't just auto-fit gear either. I think it's become kind of a cliché to go "yeah well ffxiv has all the same bodytypes so np," when not only they don't, but they also have height sliders and breast sliders and all kinds of things that would require adjustments (regardless of whether it was automated or not) for the armor to fit it well enough.

Less an excuse and more an explanation. The number of races WoW has and the dimorphism between them just means that more work has to go into every piece of gear they put out.

FFXIV's gear sets looks pretty good but I'm not going to celebrate it as anything special. They only have a few slots, things don't mix-and-match especially well, the dyes are generally pretty ugly. FFXIV gear and customization is pretty dated, too.

Personally I still wish Blizzard would prioritize cloth physics and doing things like capes, coats, and proper robes. I think they could convert a lot of the existing ear to a cloth-based system, especially robes, and they've had some light experimentation with that style of physics going back a couple expansions now.

They're increasingly incorporating modeled pieces for all the gear sets, and have been since Legion, so it's not like they aren't doing that now.

[Yarathir]

Less an excuse and more an explanation. The number of races WoW has and the dimorphism between them just means that more work has to go into every piece of gear they put out.

FFXIV's gear sets looks pretty good but I'm not going to celebrate it as anything special. They only have a few slots, things don't mix-and-match especially well, the dyes are generally pretty ugly. FFXIV gear and customization is pretty dated, too.

Personally I still wish Blizzard would prioritize cloth physics and doing things like capes, coats, and proper robes. I think they could convert a lot of the existing ear to a cloth-based system, especially robes, and they've had some light experimentation with that style of physics going back a couple expansions now.

They're increasingly incorporating modeled pieces for all the gear sets, and have been since Legion, so it's not like they aren't doing that now.

WoW's races aren't that much more diverse. Fact of the matter is Square just puts more work into their armor sets than Blizzard, by a long mile, even if I were to give the hypothetical point to Blizzard for having to fit armor more around different shapes. XIV has two main weaknesses with regards to armor. Viera and Hrothgar can't wear most helms/hats because they were rushed, and chests are more all-encompassing, usually covering the entire chest (duh), creating the shoulderguards (no separate shoulder slot) and the belt too, since there's no independent belt glamour.

And WoW's armor still isn't properly 3D. I mean, it's 3D, but it doesn't cover entire parts of the body. It's mainly just external 3D things tacked to a character model, occasionally a half-shell.

[Kathranis]

WoW's races aren't that much more diverse. Fact of the matter is Square just puts more work into their armor sets than Blizzard, by a long mile, even if I were to give the hypothetical point to Blizzard for having to fit armor more around different shapes. XIV has two main weaknesses with regards to armor. Viera and Hrothgar can't wear most helms/hats because they were rushed, and chests are more all-encompassing, usually covering the entire chest (duh), creating the shoulderguards (no separate shoulder slot) and the belt too, since there's no independent belt glamour.

No, FFXIV's races are definitely less anatomically diverse than WoW's, and there's only 16 models, whereas WoW effectively has 30, 32 if you count vulpera which do have some unique geometry compared to goblins due to their snouts.



They're all essentially humans with different proportions. You don't see hunched postures, digitigrade legs, giant animal necks, snouts, etc.

And WoW's armor still isn't properly 3D. I mean, it's 3D, but it doesn't cover entire parts of the body. It's mainly just external 3D things tacked to a character model, occasionally a half-shell.

Yeah, and that's because there are obvious legacy technical limitations with what the engine can do. Gotta remember that this is a nearly 20 year old game and that up until Legion they did pretty much all the gear using bespoke geosets that were hand-animated and baked into the mesh of every player model.

I would like to see them do more with armor models, especially now that they've opened up transmog a lot, but they're probably never going to be able to feasibly do full breastplates or cowls, at least with the current tech.

I'll restate that getting cloth physics figured out and implemented would probably be the best thing they could do for gear in WoW, since they could actually drape and bunch cloth over the characters in ways that aren't currently possible.

[Yarathir]

No, FFXIV's races are definitely less anatomically diverse than WoW's, and there's only 16 models, whereas WoW effectively has 30, 32 if you count vulpera which do have some unique geometry compared to goblins due to their snouts.



They're all essentially humans with different proportions. You don't see hunched postures, digitigrade legs, giant animal necks, snouts, etc.



Yeah, and that's because there are obvious legacy technical limitations with what the engine can do. Gotta remember that this is a nearly 20 year old game and that up until Legion they did pretty much all the gear using bespoke geosets that were hand-animated and baked into the mesh of every player model.

I would like to see them do more with armor models, especially now that they've opened up transmog a lot, but they're probably never going to be able to feasibly do full breastplates or cowls, at least with the current tech.

I'll restate that getting cloth physics figured out and implemented would probably be the best thing they could do for gear in WoW, since they could actually drape and bunch cloth over the characters in ways that aren't currently possible.

Not much an engine thing as it is a geometry thing tbh.

So what WoW races are anatomically diverse in a noteworthy way then? Worgen? Draenei? Tauren?

[Kathranis]

Not much an engine thing as it is a geometry thing tbh.

So what WoW races are anatomically diverse in a noteworthy way then? Worgen? Draenei? Tauren?

Orcs, worgen, tauren, draenei, and goblins/vulpera are probably the ones that cause the most issues with meshes. Especially for helmets, which need to be manually adjusted for every single race. Shoulder pads are just scaled linearly.

[Wangming]

Orcs, worgen, tauren, draenei, and goblins/vulpera are probably the ones that cause the most issues with meshes. Especially for helmets, which need to be manually adjusted for every single race. Shoulder pads are just scaled linearly.

And we have two orcs, two tauren and two draenei. Don't misunderstand I still agree that WoW is better at including less human races (and as a result far worse when it comes to factial animations) but the 30 different bodytype argument flies out the window when you have humans, fat humans, dead humans, two orcs, two dwarves, two gnomes, two pointy eared gnomes, two trolls, two tauren, two pandaren, two draenei and four elves. Worgen...well they truly are unique. But only when transformed.

[Kathranis]

And we have two orcs, two tauren and two draenei. Don't misunderstand I still agree that WoW is better at including less human races (and as a result far worse when it comes to factial animations) but the 30 different bodytype argument flies out the window when you have humans, fat humans, dead humans, two orcs, two dwarves, two gnomes, two pointy eared gnomes, two trolls, two tauren, two pandaren, two draenei and four elves. Worgen...well they truly are unique. But only when transformed.

I wasn't including the allied races in the count of 30, fwiw.

[pacotaco]

Looking at the sparkles and stuff around the robe, I'm kinda hoping it comes with an animation of some kind. You see a lot of that in other MMOs, would be cool to see it in WoW. You know, outside of shoulders.

Yeah, the sparkles look like could be from the shoulders. And if you look closer, it seems like there's a "ground effect" too. Like a pool of light, that may be part of the shoes.

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There's still Bros before Hozen I think? That was a quest back in MoP

It's not that close to the original than the changed one, but don't discard that they change it too.

[Yarathir]

Orcs, worgen, tauren, draenei, and goblins/vulpera are probably the ones that cause the most issues with meshes. Especially for helmets, which need to be manually adjusted for every single race. Shoulder pads are just scaled linearly.

Orcs? Are big humans, tbh as far as fitting gear goes. Roegadyn are about on the same level.

I would dig a more Draenei-like FFXIV race, though. I think Au Ra are a lot of wasted potential in that sense.

[Nnyco]

Yes, but genocide is okay because.. uhm.. dead elf lady very pretty and probably didn't mean it.

Pretty sad you cant differentiate real life with fiction.

[WowIsDead64]

9.1.5 is literally full of fixes that the community has been asking for.

And they just keep adding more fixes with every day that passes.

But you're going to throw a fit and exaggerate the amount of promotions?

Which mind you, if you're including sales/bundles as a promotions, that makes...2.
The Sarge hearthstone mount, and now these new bundles. Hardly worth considering each sale it's own promotion when they're all linked together.

First of all, this fixes aren't enough. They suit hardcore playerbase only, that is about 1-10% of potential playerbase. They don't make any content better. Low leveling is still bad, 50-60 leveling is still bad, Maw is still bad, Korthia is still bad, WQs are still bad, Anima grind is still bad, souls/gifts grind and time-gating are still bad. Still nothing to do in game. Nothing is actually fixed. And at the same time we start seeing more and more promotions. And we've seen this thing before. It's simple logic here. Game should be saved via FIXING CONTENT - not getting away from troubles via milking more money from playerbase via promotions. It's not first time, when it happens. And we've got tired of this situation. That even when game is in critical state, devs still aren't kicked enough by their bosses to do things right, instead of picking easy way again. Yeah, it's period in game development cycle, when Ion starts to talk about "improvements" again. This should give us some hope, that 10.0 will be better. But you know what? When 10.0 will be revealed, you'll realize, that Blizzard will turn amnesia mode on again, i.e. forget about all this situation, we have now, and make same crappy game again. This vicious circle should be broken. Today it should be obvious enough for all players, that money is only language, Blizzard understand. And if we want to have really good 10.0, we should keep our solid position to the bitter end. If we'll give in again - this crap will never stop.

[Yarathir]

Pretty sad you cant differentiate real life with fiction.

No, I can see it. Not sure if people moaning about heckin fictional sexism or racism can see it.

[OokOok]

Pretty sad you cant differentiate real life with fiction.

Considering the post was replying to someone talking about racism in a game based on character creation/npcs I think a lot of players can't. If you complain about racism in a game because there is only 1 black NPC, you too can't differentiate real life with fiction and should probably get off the computer.

There were about 50 people crying because a NPC character looked whiter in a cinematic, LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL ookook

[Jester Joe]

First of all, this fixes aren't enough. They suit hardcore playerbase only, that is about 1-10% of potential playerbase. They don't make any content better. Low leveling is still bad, 50-60 leveling is still bad, Maw is still bad, Korthia is still bad, WQs are still bad, Anima grind is still bad, souls/gifts grind and time-gating are still bad. Still nothing to do in game. Nothing is actually fixed. And at the same time we start seeing more and more promotions. And we've seen this thing before. It's simple logic here. Game should be saved via FIXING CONTENT - not getting away from troubles via milking more money from playerbase via promotions. It's not first time, when it happens. And we've got tired of this situation. That even when game is in critical state, devs still aren't kicked enough by their bosses to do things right, instead of picking easy way again. Yeah, it's period in game development cycle, when Ion starts to talk about "improvements" again. This should give us some hope, that 10.0 will be better. But you know what? When 10.0 will be revealed, you'll realize, that Blizzard will turn amnesia mode on again, i.e. forget about all this situation, we have now, and make same crappy game again. This vicious circle should be broken. Today it should be obvious enough for all players, that money is only language, Blizzard understand. And if we want to have really good 10.0, we should keep our solid position to the bitter end. If we'll give in again - this crap will never stop.

You realize almost none of the changes besides one actually maybe affects the hardcore playerbase, and that's the conduit swapping removal?

They're not going to be swapping covenants that much because generally speaking, outside of a few odd cases, the best covenant for M+ is also the best for raiding. Especially true for the top dps specs. That's a change strictly for people who want to be able to collect and swap around for fun.

As for all your "still bad" examples, it's mostly just either A) opinionated or B) semi-irrelevant.

They're adding more quests to get souls so the complaint of "timegating" there isn't true. I don't know where people suddenly got such a focus on the gifts/offerings either, because I haven't heard a peep about them until suddenly now where people started to complain about them, but those are bound to the character anyway not the covenant, not like they disappear and it's all for cosmetic rewards anyway.

Korthia is fine. There is no "anima grind". The maw isn't really a focus outside of doing the assault twice a week and then leaving anyway.


And on top of all of that, there isn't any "milking money" going on at the moment. One promotion is straight up free.

[Queen of Hamsters]

A bit sad that the Legion TW vendor mount is another hippogryph... BUT, that means I won't feel a need to obtain it, so silver lining! Didn't think I'd see people genuinely argue that FFXIV has more diverse races and race models than WoW though... I'mma have to add to my sig.

And there it is. The corporation is being a corporation again.

That set of armour showcased in the Fey Dragon bundle looks far better than any of the shit we've been shoveled so far.

... Really? Because I got the set for free as a subscriber, and I wouldn't get caught mogging my characters into it for all the gold in Azeroth... There are about 100 better looking sets that I'd rather have, all available from in-game.

They were always about money though.

[Kagthul]

Holy shit that iLevel spread in PvP gear is insane. They havent learned shit.

[Tupolew519]

What a awesome stuff.