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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by cozzri View Post
    The problem with boosting is that, in a convoluted way, its pay-to-win. Blizzard sanctioned the gold trade with WoW token, allowing boosts to become way more prevalent as a means of character progression. I'm not arguing that boosting for bought gold didn't happen before the WoW token (it did); Blizzards actions and stance on gold buying/selling definitely had an impact on the game by allowing the more pay-to-win aspect of it become more acceptable.

    Is WoW a virtual world or virtual cash shop? These lines can be blurred in any MMO that pushes microtransactions over immersion, which is an unfortunate reality of WoWs current state. Every expansion and every patch where numbers go down, services provided go up; the very reason why year after year, player numbers are down, but revenues remain constant. Blizzard never screws their stockholders over, perhaps we're all playing the wrong game and should be playing World of Stockcraft instead.
    I understand what you mean and it really has been a pay-to-win affair since the induction of the WoW token. In my mind it was never as egregious as outright procuring the means to win through money, simply because other players have to put in the extra effort to boost the player in the first place, but I have to admit that this is a very, very sugarcoated way of seeing things. Either way, it absolutely provides players with a way to obtain certain achievements thanks to the gold they've bought with their money and that can perceptively devalue the achievements of players who put a lot of effort into them on their own.

    I think that incentivizing the purchase of WoW tokens is also one of the reasons the last two expansions had no way for players to easily acquire gold through mission tables as they did in WoD and Legion; it ran contrary to their business. Many players still bought lots of them, there's no doubt about it, but I would imagine that many also skipped doing so thanks to the mission tables.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-09-08 at 02:40 AM.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Dilbon View Post
    Winning: having something that others don't have.
    I really don't think you understand what P2W is, along with every single other person saying its P2W. Pay to win is playing a game like CoD and being able to spend 100 dollars on some super buffed OP weapon that absolutely destroys people who didn't buy it.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    I think that incentivizing the purchase of WoW tokens is also one of the reasons the last two expansions had no way for players to easily acquire gold through mission tables as they did in WoD and Legion; it ran contrary to their business. Many players still bought lots of them, there's no doubt about it, but I would imagine that many also skipped doing so thanks to the mission tables.
    Yeah dude, you can see the strings that control the universe. Blizzard isn't offsetting inflation...they're trying to sell WoW tokens. That's why they added the Brutosaur! Duh. WoW tokens. Why think critically when you can just blame everything on the WoW token? Grrrrr... capitalism is so bad! Blizzard should give everybody a free Mythic Sylvanas carry, that's the only way they can prove to me they care about this community!
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Yeah, tokens are very tricky thing. They are so perfect idea, that players just can't do anything about them. They're essentially P2W, because you can buy things for real $$$, but devs justify them via "You don't buy gold from us - you buy it from other players, so it's essentially just trading with other players, while we provide secure platform for it and get our fee - RMT would happen anyway, so we just make it official".
    That's not what "P2W" is. Pay to win is when you can buy a full set of Sylvanas Mythic-level gear from the in-game shop for a special reduced price, or an Infinity+1 sword that can instantly kill opposing players/monsters with ease.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Yeah dude, you can see the strings that control the universe. Blizzard isn't offsetting inflation...they're trying to sell WoW tokens. That's why they added the Brutosaur! Duh. WoW tokens. Why think critically when you can just blame everything on the WoW token? Grrrrr... capitalism is so bad! Blizzard should give everybody a free Mythic Sylvanas carry, that's the only way they can prove to me they care about this community!
    Okay, I guess?

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    Okay, I guess?
    Sorry, was my glowing review of your conspiracy theory a bit too glossy for your taste?
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Sorry, was my glowing review of your conspiracy theory a bit too glossy for your taste?
    You're giving yourself more credit than you deserve.

    If WoW's virtual inflation was the reason why Blizzard bothered with making these changes, they wouldn't have raised the gold acquired through tokens fivefold since the end of WoD, but that somehow eluded your majestic perception.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-09-08 at 03:05 AM.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Dilbon View Post
    Winning: having something that others don't have.
    Oh boy so if I have a hemmroid but no one else in my office does I win

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampyrr View Post
    How are any of those Pay 2 win? What are you winning?
    The term pay to win indicates someone gaining an ADVANTAGE, not "winning". People failing to understand this drive me up the wall, which is wierd, because I'm not in a vehicle, and not going up a wall at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssria View Post
    I'm the only guy that has a clue as to what's wrong with the game and how it can be fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Size doesn't matter

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    The term pay to win indicates someone gaining an ADVANTAGE, not "winning". People failing to understand this drive me up the wall, which is wierd, because I'm not in a vehicle, and not going up a wall at all.
    Then they should say Pay 2 Advantage
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  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampyrr View Post
    Only applies if they sell buffs/gear directly not if you have to use a middle man to get it
    Middle man or not, the result is the same. All officially sanctioned.

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Then they should say Pay 2 Advantage
    You can call it whatever you want. The term has evolved quite a lot since it got popularized. At this point it's arguing semantics and that's a sign one is out of arguments.

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Then they should say Pay 2 Advantage
    You seem confused - they are not usingthe incorrect term, the are using the right term, and using it correctly. Its just that some people are so desperate to claim no game they love could possibly be P2W that they hide behind the term "winning". Language, esspecially colloquial usage, is always evolving. Additionally, phrases and colloquial terms should not be broken down into literal definitions of each word, as that rarely refelcts the intended definition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssria View Post
    I'm the only guy that has a clue as to what's wrong with the game and how it can be fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Size doesn't matter

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    You seem confused - they are not usingthe incorrect term, the are using the right term, and using it correctly. Its just that some people are so desperate to claim no game they love could possibly be P2W that they hide behind the term "winning". Language, esspecially colloquial usage, is always evolving. Additionally, phrases and colloquial terms should not be broken down into literal definitions of each word, as that rarely refelcts the intended definition.
    The "always evolving" part of it is what makes the term useless since everyone uses it differently

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    You can call it whatever you want. The term has evolved quite a lot since it got popularized. At this point it's arguing semantics and that's a sign one is out of arguments.
    I don't call it anything, the term has no meaning since everyone says it means something different.

    Just like "toxic" has no meaning
    Just like "casual" has no meaning
    My Collection
    - Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -Kill myself

  15. #435
    Immortal roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Pretty sure this will be another one of those "Sub for 6 months and get this thing" which they do now more than cash-shop mounts.
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  16. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    The "always evolving" part of it is what makes the term useless since everyone uses it differently



    I don't call it anything, the term has no meaning since everyone says it means something different.

    Just like "toxic" has no meaning
    Just like "casual" has no meaning
    They have meaning...

    Toxic means they were mean to me
    Casual means they care or I care less about the game

    So because of this everyone will always have a different meaning or level to the word so MMO Champion will be in a constant state of argumemt on what these and other words mean and why they are wrong

    Shit we could consolidate the wow gen forum to 3 threads

    What is casual/hardcore
    What is Toxic
    What is Pay to Win

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    The term pay to win indicates someone gaining an ADVANTAGE, not "winning". People failing to understand this drive me up the wall, which is wierd, because I'm not in a vehicle, and not going up a wall at all.
    The problem is the word advantage, it doesn't matter how much money I threw at wow atm. My main could not gain an advantage with that money. There isn't power it could buy. So is the game only P2W for some people? Id argue 'advantage' in the P2W definition refers to power that players would not otherwise be able to obtain unless they pay for it whether it be strict power or acquisition rates of something that directly relate to power IE monster summoning scrolls in gacha games.

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    They have meaning...

    Toxic means they were mean to me
    Casual means they care or I care less about the game

    So because of this everyone will always have a different meaning or level to the word so MMO Champion will be in a constant state of argumemt on what these and other words mean and why they are wrong

    Shit we could consolidate the wow gen forum to 3 threads

    What is casual/hardcore
    What is Toxic
    What is Pay to Win
    lol and if the forums were consolidated into those three topics they would never end as people went back and forth on whose meaning is right.
    The "what's casual" camp seems to be just two sides: Time vs Content difficulty. Am I a casual if I play wow 15 hours a day every day but only pet battle? What if I only play 6 hours a week but I get CE every tier?
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  19. #439
    Herald of the Titans Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dejiko View Post
    Whether it`s FFXIV or WoW, having a sub based game and an in game shop to sell cosmetics for real money is awful.
    The shop was quite handy for using services like faction change, gender change, server migration and so on.
    So... it's all right if the games sell things that can potentially alter your gameplay experience (Server/Faction change), but not okay when those sub-based games have a shop that sells things that often don't?

  20. #440
    Scarab Lord SinR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    Can't we just bully people who buy it? Kick them from groups drive them out of lfg that kinda thing?

    Send a message?
    You see how well that ended with the Warpstalker mount in TBC:C?

    Makes me wanna use it just to piss off people like you. Come zooming into the zone in with the Fae Dragon TMog and the Sparkle Pony like "Sup? Problem?? Have fun waiting for another tank."
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

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