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  1. #461
    Don't get why people bother to work up a heart attack over cosmetic stuff in the store. There's no player power in them, so it doesn't make any difference what so ever on the game play or progression. And anyone can get them, with a huge amount of people running around with it, which makes them common and boring. There's a case to be made about the token, but even removing that would likely do little but make a lot of gold farmers/sellers extremely happy. I mean you see the bot hell that is TBC. Sure, there are bots and spam on retail too, but the amount would explode if the token was removed.

  2. #462
    I don’t mind the cash shop if the in game rewards were on the same level of detail. But when a in game item is giving a recolor and cash shop item is giving unique looks. That’s when it feels bad. Looking at you 100 reputations achievement.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinx View Post
    Don't get why people bother to work up a heart attack over cosmetic stuff in the store. There's no player power in them, so it doesn't make any difference what so ever on the game play or progression. And anyone can get them, with a huge amount of people running around with it, which makes them common and boring. There's a case to be made about the token, but even removing that would likely do little but make a lot of gold farmers/sellers extremely happy. I mean you see the bot hell that is TBC. Sure, there are bots and spam on retail too, but the amount would explode if the token was removed.
    Its just brokes being brokes

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinx View Post
    There's a case to be made about the token, but even removing that would likely do little but make a lot of gold farmers/sellers extremely happy. I mean you see the bot hell that is TBC. Sure, there are bots and spam on retail too, but the amount would explode if the token was removed.
    I think that logic is damn stupid.

    Botting is by no means a TBC specific problem and Retail certainly has not resolved it, either, the reality is however that you simply need actual Gamemasters that frankly keep your game healthy, which is a solution that Blizzard does not want to take because they don't want to hire more staff.
    The problem to an "automation" problem cannot be more automation on Blizzards end, you need people on the ground that get rid off these bots ASAP in order to cut down on the profit marigin of those that run them - it's not like they are difficult to find.

    And the flipside of the existence of the WoW Token is the extreme popularity of boosting, which has absolutely reached a peak in China where it becomes harder and harder for people to play the game without paying someone for a boosting service.

    If you think that purchasing an ingame currency is bad for the health of the game, then the answer to it cannot be to effectively "legalize" the process, all the negatives that aren't strictly tied to actions of the 3rd party websites are still there - and if those are supposed to be nonexistent, then i doubt Blizzard dragged their feet on the WoW Token for over 10 years for nothing.

    At the end of the day, Blizzard can take actions against goldbuyers (not just 7day / X month ban, perma ban their ass) and also take actions against botters - it's just more expensive for them.
    Blizzard however cannot do shit against any issues that arise from the WoW token because they are allowed by their ToS and they certainly won't forbid players providing ingame services.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moozart View Post
    Its just brokes being brokes
    Almost any person that can cough up the money for a monthly sub also has the money for WoW Tokens.

    People that unironically believe that the people who dislike the WoW Token are doing because they can't afford it, need to realize that they're paying Blizzard something between 300-400 Bucks when you buy an expansion at launch and stay subbed for its enterity, WoW is not cheap by video game standards - it's only cheap as a hobby when it effectively replaces anything else.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-09-08 at 11:49 AM.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    So... it's all right if the games sell things that can potentially alter your gameplay experience (Server/Faction change), but not okay when those sub-based games have a shop that sells things that often don't?
    I said the shop was handy as a tool to use those services, whether they are "appropriate".
    I`m not a fan of faction change as a service, regardless of whether you pay for it or not, but i have used it due to convenience.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I think that logic is damn stupid.



    Almost any person that can cough up the money for a monthly sub also has the money for WoW Tokens.

    People that unironically believe that the people who dislike the WoW Token are doing because they can't afford it, need to realize that they're paying Blizzard something between 300-400 Bucks when you buy an expansion at launch and stay subbed for its enterity, WoW is not cheap by video game standards - it's only cheap as a hobby when it effectively replaces anything else.

    Yea, that's not true quite often. I cant tell you how many people I've played with in guilds ect over the years that are scrambling just to pay monthly sub much less buy extras. Just like any other addictive substances you will have a bigger than expected portion of its userbase that are hardly able to afford it. We would like to think that most players are living comfortably and able to buy this stuff willy nilly but its not the case more often than you think. I would bet there are people on this forum that struggle to handle all their bills and pay the monthly sub with not a lot extra to go towards cash shop.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    Middle man or not, the result is the same. All officially sanctioned.
    Doesnt meet the criteria of directly selling pay2win

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    The term pay to win indicates someone gaining an ADVANTAGE, not "winning". People failing to understand this drive me up the wall, which is wierd, because I'm not in a vehicle, and not going up a wall at all.
    Cosmetics/mounts/pets still arent any kind of advantage though so it still does not apply. Those in a shop in games are literally used to show how it is NOT a p2w system because it does not provide any advantage in power.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilbon View Post
    Winning: having something that others don't have.
    Eh no that is not how it is used in this situation and you know it.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    Just because there's one more step after doesn't mean that's not exactly what it is. Denying this is what's dishonest.
    "Because I can withdraw 20$ bills at my bank, they are literally selling lap dance"
    MMO-Champion, once the place to get WoW News, now the home of the haters and their clickbait and doomsaying threads

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Moozart View Post
    Yea, that's not true quite often.
    I didn't claim that it's true for virtually everyone and i'm not going to comment on the financial situation of some people, but the fact remains that WoW in itself is already a pretty expensive hobby by video game standards and the prices for MTX aren't exactly out of reach for some that already pays a monthly sub.

    But if we're citing anectdotal evidence, i think there should be 0 MTX and i could easily afford anything on the cashshop without issue, it's about the principle that i don't want to earn ingame rewards of any kind via digital purchase outside of the monthly sub.

    I'm not going to deny that some people might struggle to make ends meet and could potentially not afford it, but believing that is actually a large portion of the people that voice is a baseless assumption.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zequill View Post
    "Because I can withdraw 20$ bills at my bank, they are literally selling lap dance"
    The more logical analogy would be that your bank offers to turn your money directly into coupons for a strip club.
    Which is something that most reputable banks would not offer, i assume.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-09-08 at 12:37 PM.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampyrr View Post
    Eh no that is not how it is used in this situation and you know it.
    That's how people interpret P2W. Some examples of winning:
    - having more gold than others
    - having a rare transmog or mount or title
    - having more time not wasted playing the game while grinding for levels or gold or whatever

  11. #471
    Right now Blizzard is just dipping their toes into the water. Let's see if we'll reach SWTOR levels where every decent looking set they introduced after launch is found on the cash shop.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  12. #472
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Idk, but they shouldn't cost more than $10 imo. I think that the stuff in the shop is overpriced and only becomes reasonable during sales.

    But people buy the stuff anyways, so they won't change anything.

    I'm okay with silly costume-like transmog being available there.
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  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    Idk, but they shouldn't cost more than $10 imo. I think that the stuff in the shop is overpriced and only becomes reasonable during sales.

    But people buy the stuff anyways, so they won't change anything.

    I'm okay with silly costume-like transmog being available there.
    Silly stuff was to ease you into the idea. It is going to eclipse anything that drops in game.

    That said if that image against all odds turns out to be the mage tier set for when they return class tier I will be extremely excited for it.
    Last edited by Sin of Pride; 2021-09-08 at 01:11 PM.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by ManOluck View Post
    Honestly who wants this?


    These transmogs are way more visually striking and most likely will offer more particle effects and other enhancements than in game items. Honestly everyone needs to protest this crap before it gets out of control. These are new appearences that can be used for unique events like Mage Tower 2.0 or other game feats of strength.....


    How are people ok with this?
    I don't care.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Dilbon View Post
    That's how people interpret P2W. Some examples of winning:
    - having more gold than others
    - having a rare transmog or mount or title
    - having more time not wasted playing the game while grinding for levels or gold or whatever
    Well those people are silly as that is not the proper usage. P2W typically is used to strictly refer to POWER. You buy armor you cant otherwise get or buffs that you cannot get in game that make you stronger than standard or F2P users. Cosmetics are just seen as cosmetics. For currency typically it refers to games using special $ only premium currency to unlock things that you cannot otherwise obtain. Just look at any of the slew of freemium games or mobile games to see the difference. You can sort of make the claim with the wow token but its a little on the weak side with how WoW operates.

  16. #476
    Yep, P2W doesn't exist.

  17. #477
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin of Pride View Post
    Silly stuff was to ease you into the idea. It is going to eclipse anything that drops in game.

    That said if that image against all odds turns out to be the mage tier set for when they return class tier I will be extremely excited for it.
    At least they feign some level of limit to the shop for now.
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  18. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hastis View Post
    so why doesnt make wow f2p if cash shop seems to be like in other games? or maybe b2p like guild wars 2 is xd dont defend blizz for making shit like that its like someone /spit on your face oh you cant even do that maybe you should buy emote pack for 20$ cuz why not? why not block raids for 5$ every one cuz it doesnt matter for somebody who doesnt raid
    Son, I have no idea what you just said, but you is special, so I'mma help you out.
    Gimme the map, Scott...

    Just a reminder it's a cosmetic mog option.
    If you are really this angry about it, you may want to take a moment and breathe, because it's simply not a big deal.
    They aren't selling things piecemeal like f2p; that's the whole point.

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Again another error very common - it does NOT mean gaining an advantage over every single other player in the game, it means gaining an advantage over some people unwilling or unable to pay the fee.

    - - - Updated - - -
    Gaining an advantage over the lowest common denominator is ridiculous. I'm sorry it just is, any game that gains fps by having a decent computer is P2W in that case because by having more FPS you can perform better. Your definition makes the game P2W for only some people which a REALLY odd definition of P2W, where as mine does not have that HUGE footnote in the definition.

    "Wow is P2W.... UNLESS you have the ability/time to get mythic raid and dungeon gear yourself in which case its just a normal sub game". I'd like to think P2W games are much more binary then that. Either I can gain extra power with extra money or I can't, and in wow... I can't.
    Last edited by Elbob; 2021-09-08 at 05:20 PM.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    Gaining an advantage over the largest common denominator is ridiculous. I'm sorry it just is, any game that gains fps by having a decent computer is P2W in that case because by having more FPS you can perform better. Your definition makes the game P2W for only some people which a REALLY odd definition of P2W, where as mine does not have that HUGE footnote in the definition.

    "Wow is P2W.... UNLESS you have the ability/time to get mythic raid and dungeon gear yourself in which case its just a normal sub game". I'd like to think P2W games are much more binary then that. Either I can gain extra power with extra money or I can't, and in wow... I can't.
    If a game sold fps in a shop and limited people who didn't buy it I would call it p2w to.

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