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  1. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    I dont understand why you wont understand the concept of *Buy token-->Sell token-->get gold-->use gold on carries/boost--> get gear, rank, mount, title.* No, its not stuff you buy on the Blizz store directly, but its not far off. Its perfectly done by Blizzard cause they clearly have enough people defending it who see no issue with it.
    Because booster don't sell their run with gold. Why would they go in the process of transferring the huge amount of gold (we are talking about raid carry, those go for 200$ US, how many gold would that be worth) then trying to sell someone that gold on the server it was, all that leaving huge trail in-game when you can simply ask people to give you $$ and don't have any in game trace of selling boost.
    MMO-Champion, once the place to get WoW News, now the home of the haters and their clickbait and doomsaying threads

  2. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    I dont understand why you wont understand the concept of *Buy token-->Sell token-->get gold-->use gold on carries/boost--> get gear, rank, mount, title.* No, its not stuff you buy on the Blizz store directly, but its not far off. Its perfectly done by Blizzard cause they clearly have enough people defending it who see no issue with it.

    Your example of the 25 mill price is like the highest priced thing to buy atm, and that will get cheaper over time. Most stuff is rather "cheap" though.
    Blizzard will never need to put stuff like this on the store cause they already do with the token, in a not-so obvious way.

    If Blizzard just outright put gear, titles & mounts on the store you would probably be upset. But not when they do it with the token. The token is there to be used for this, not to buy a few flasks or enchants. The sole reason to use tokens on are high prices mounts(high price because of the token) and so people can buy boosts. They will never say it, but thats how it work.

    Dunno if your last four points was directed at me but I would have you know im not "poor" either ingame or RL. I have the gold I need for ingame purposes, not to waste on cheap carries. Im also decent enough in english to understand you are a true Blizzard chill that will defend them for this sleasy business that ruins the game. The real people with addiction problems are probably the ones spending the most money on the token - are you one of them?
    let me ask you again
    do you buy gear/achievs from blizzard?
    this is a yes/no question.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zequill View Post
    Because booster don't sell their run with gold. Why would they go in the process of transferring the huge amount of gold (we are talking about raid carry, those go for 200$ US, how many gold would that be worth) then trying to sell someone that gold on the server it was, all that leaving huge trail in-game when you can simply ask people to give you $$ and don't have any in game trace of selling boost.
    cus its not like rmt doesn't get you instabanned bruv

    anyway this is pretty on point for mmo-c

  3. #583
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Why does it have to be one or the other? Why not both?

    And before you try to argue that the shop diverts resources that could otherwise be utilized for making more in-game content, that just not a well thought out argument. The simple fact is that the cash shop makes a lot more revenue than it costs to run. It is almost a certainty that a number of people currently employed in the WoW team owe their jobs to the existence of the cash shop and the revenue it brings in that justifies the continued cost of developing this game.

    So if anything, WoW likely has more in-game content thanks to the shop than it would have otherwise. Even in the worst case scenario it is doubtful it would have less.
    So, I agree the cash-shop CAN co-exist with the game without much downside. The problem is the current situation that we're at. The game clearly doesn't have enough content right now. We can blame covid, or poor management, but it is what it is. In all likelihood, they probably have an internal calendar and budget for creating new stuff for the cash-shop. I would argue that effective management would look at the situation, and say "okay, we need to pivot these resources temporarily over towards adding new content for the game".

    So in the long-term, both CAN work. But not really at the same time. If you introduce a transmog set via cash-shop, and also introduce an in-game event that awards a transmog set, either the in-game event will cannibalize sales of the cash-shop set, or the cash-shop set will be designed to be cooler, which would undermine the purpose of the in-game event AND drum up additional bad PR.

    Right now, they need to be all-hands-on-deck for getting people active in the game again. As Fortnite has shown, cosmetics are an INCREDIBLY powerful tool too get players to play games. This last raid didn't even introduce any new armor, instead simply recoloring the "Legendary" armor that existed at launch. Blizzard needs to get its shit together, and fairly quickly.

  4. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by SensationalBanana View Post
    ... Did I read this right, you think that BLIZZARD decides how much gold you get from the tokens at any given time?

    Supply and demand, it is called. Reason why they didn't magically up the token's value to 500k or 1 million gold with the Brutosaur's announced extinction and such.

    Players buying/selling decides what the token costs. Anything else is BS conspiracy takes.
    Yes, I do strictly think that Blizzard decides. Why you seem to show disbelief at what I wrote is puzzling. You could make a statement about the rules of supply and demand in an environment that has known variables and use it to back your claim up; you however have no numbers to work with in the case of the WoW token, which is why you can't talk about supply and demand as definite proof for your position. There is no way to determine whether the WoW tokens they give you for your gold have previously even been bought by someone in the first place, making the token system a mechanism that simply alternates between dumping and spawning gold.

    No, the reason it didn't shoot up beyond the current margins is because they are not allowing it to; the amount of gold given for a token increased five to six times after WoD, while the amount of gold players can make through various sources steadily declined and required more and more tedious routines for much less. In fact, the example you've given with the MC Brutosaur backs up the claim that Blizzard artificially maintains the token-to-gold exchange rates because, if the opposite was true, the volatility would be much higher. There is only one logical conclusion to this: they're either spawning tokens on demand, they're setting an artificial token-to-gold exchange rate with marginal changes or both(which would make the most sense).

    Logicically, the WoW token should be worth a lot less gold now than it was back in WoD and Legion because the amount of gold players can routinely make has drastically declined. In other words, the less gold players are able to pump into the virtual economy of WoW and the less gold there is overall, the more a single unit of gold is worth, which would lead to a steady decline in the amount of gold that is given for a WoW token. This however isn't happening and the reason why is Blizzard's artificial maintenance of what they percieve to be a reasonable exchange rate. There are of course other things to be taken into account, such as player activity, the addition of goldsinks and overall player numbers/engagement at a given time, but the more variables we add the more logical - if it was truly a spontaneous system - it would be for the token exchange rates to get increasingly and incredibly volatile.

    A key takeaway here is that I am in no way trying to give this business practice of theirs a negative connocation; it's a profitable business practice for them and they have to maintain their system. It undoubtedly benefits both Blizzard and a great number of players. What is wrong however is to claim that this is a self-regulated and spontaneous mechanism. Standing firmly by what you are saying and believing WoW token gold exchange rates are regulated by "supply and demand" is in the domain of blind belief that goes against knowledgable judgement.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-09-09 at 03:14 PM.

  5. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    bcs hating on everything bliz do, quite often by lying or by making up shit, using streamers as gospel, atacking anyone who dares to like the game they dont like, swarming forum of game they claim they dont even play for years is sooooooo mentaly healthy, and totaly not obsessive behaviour...

    the "warning" about shop is great example: DECADE ago, when star pony was added some doomsayers started to claim that the very next day we will have to buy tickets to go to raid, everything will be on shop, and the game will be unplayable without spending money on shop, 10 years later we are not a single step closer and they claim they WERE RIGHT like i dont know what halucinogenic drugs those people take but hell thats some strong shit

    and i know youll mark me "shill" bcs obviously saying PROVABLE TRUTH is now considered bad by people who are unable to deal with reality, but thats your problem, not ours

    You are just confirming what I said. Warning from decade ago that turned real is some kind of argument for you ? You not only lost touch will all reality but with basic logic.
    Your best debunk of all my points was "what about some haters that lie or follow streamers ? " . Where is that PROVABLE TRUTH about what a great product wow turned about to be following a decade of fanboys asskissing every blizzard step in this direction ? Is it with the millions quitting the game ?

  6. #586
    Scarab Lord SinR's Avatar
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    What's the difference between a WoW token seller and someone that played the AH?
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
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  7. #587
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    Yes, I do strictly think that Blizzard decides. Why you seem to show disbelief at what I wrote is puzzling. You could make a statement about the rules of supply and demand in an environment that has known variables and use it to back your claim up; you however have no numbers to work with in the case of the WoW token, which is why you can't talk about supply and demand as definite proof for your position. There is no way to determine whether the WoW tokens they give you for your gold have previously even been bought by someone in the first place, making the token system a mechanism that simply alternates between dumping and spawning gold.

    No, the reason it didn't shoot up beyond the current margins is because they are not allowing it to; the amount of gold given for a token increased five to six times after WoD, while the amount of gold players can make through various sources steadily declined and required more and more tedious routines for much less. In fact, the example you've given with the MC Brutosaur backs up the claim that Blizzard artificially maintains the token-to-gold exchange rates because, if the opposite was true, the volatility would be much higher. There is only one logical conclusion to this: they're either spawning tokens on demand, they're setting an artificial token-to-gold exchange rate with marginal changes or both(which would make the most sense).

    Logicically, the WoW token should be worth a lot less gold now than it was back in WoD and Legion because the amount of gold players can routinely make has drastically declined. In other words, the less gold players are able to pump into the virtual economy of WoW and the less gold there is overall, the more a single unit of gold is worth, which would lead to a steady decline in the amount of gold that is given for a WoW token. This however isn't happening and the reason why is Blizzard's artificial maintenance of what they percieve to be a reasonable exchange rate. There are of course other things to be taken into account, such as player activity, the addition of goldsinks and overall player numbers/engagement at a given time, but the more variables we add the more logical - if it was truly a spontaneous system - it would be for the token exchange rates to get increasingly and incredibly volatile.

    A key takeaway here is that I am in no way trying to give this business practice of theirs a negative connocation; it's a profitable business practice for them and they have to maintain their system. It undoubtedly benefits both Blizzard and a great number of players. What is wrong however is to claim that this is a self-regulated and spontaneous mechanism. Standing firmly by what you are saying and believing WoW token gold exchange rates are regulated by "supply and demand" is in the domain of blind belief that goes against knowledgable judgement.
    Your complete inability to grasp economics is staggering. All this so that you can support this ridiculous conspiracy theory that big bad Blizzard is manipulating WoW token prices to incentivize boosting. I promise you, my dude, they do not give a fuck.
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  8. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    What's the difference between a WoW token seller and someone that played the AH?
    The person playing the auction house will have about 10-20 times more gold depending on their skill. U.S. token are currently going for around 194k, not very much of an advantage considering I could farming that in a few weeks of purely solo play.

  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Your complete inability to grasp economics is staggering. All this so that you can support this ridiculous conspiracy theory that big bad Blizzard is manipulating WoW token prices to incentivize boosting. I promise you, my dude, they do not give a fuck.
    cus $20 is $20 lmao

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmatrix View Post
    The person playing the auction house will have about 10-20 times more gold depending on their skill. U.S. token are currently going for around 194k, not very much of an advantage considering I could farming that in a few weeks of purely solo play.
    the people on here do not realize that the people who buy tokens aren't the rich ones that are actually able to afford runs.

    You make more gold flipping WoD mats over a week than you would buying a token, if so inclined

  10. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    What's the difference between a WoW token seller and someone that played the AH?
    The person who played the AH put in significant effort and / or is extremely good at playing the virtual economy, displaying their mastery over an aspect critical to this virtual world (of Warcraft).

    The person who sells WoW Token solely managed to punch in their credit cards data onto Blizzards website and has mastered nothing but the art of transferring money to Blizzard.

  11. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    let me ask you again
    do you buy gear/achievs from blizzard?
    this is a yes/no question.

    - - - Updated - - -



    cus its not like rmt doesn't get you instabanned bruv

    anyway this is pretty on point for mmo-c
    I dont, but I know many who have and will continue to do so. I know several people that sub up for new xpac and return once and again to buy a couple of tokens and get carried, especially if theres a cool AOTC mount. The very same people say its become the norm these days and its difficult not to believe them.

    I've been tempted many times, especially when theres been awesome mounts as a reward. But so far I havent done it and I wont bother to. I have the gold for flask, enchants and that stuff.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    The person who played the AH put in significant effort and / or is extremely good at playing the virtual economy, displaying their mastery over an aspect critical to this virtual world (of Warcraft).

    The person who sells WoW Token solely managed to punch in their credit cards data onto Blizzards website and has mastered nothing but the art of transferring money to Blizzard.
    This. HUGE point. Those who play the AH are good at it, it takes a certain type of skill. Not anyone can do it. People that earn tons of gold through AH only can do whatever they wish with the gold, cause they have earned it in-game.

  12. #592
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    I dont, but I know many who have and will continue to do so. I know several people that sub up for new xpac and return once and again to buy a couple of tokens and get carried, especially if theres a cool AOTC mount. The very same people say its become the norm these days and its difficult not to believe them.

    I've been tempted many times, especially when theres been awesome mounts as a reward. But so far I havent done it and I wont bother to. I have the gold for flask, enchants and that stuff.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This. HUGE point. Those who play the AH are good at it, it takes a certain type of skill. Not anyone can do it. People that earn tons of gold through AH only can do whatever they wish with the gold, cause they have earned it in-game.
    you totally misunderstood the question.

    Blizzard does not sell power. Fullstop.

    also there is no difference between AH gold, gold for selling boosts or gold from buying a token. Gold is gold. 50 of your 25k doesn't go into a different pot because you got it from selling a dungeon boost.

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Your complete inability to grasp economics is staggering. All this so that you can support this ridiculous conspiracy theory that big bad Blizzard is manipulating WoW token prices to incentivize boosting. I promise you, my dude, they do not give a fuck.
    Not only have you shown a lack of basic manners and intellect necessary to have a normal discussion with someone on a simple topic such as this, but you're also continuously reinforcing your strawman; nowhere have I said that Blizzard is bad for manipulating token prices nor have I said that they're purposely incentivizing boosting. That they "do not give a fuck" in regards to all of this is the one and only thing that you're correct about. I'll stop entertaining you with further replies, unless you miraculously get yourself together sometime in the future.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-09-09 at 04:13 PM.

  14. #594
    Banned Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    meh...its no different than selling costumes for gold,just use some tokens and get it
    People like you are the reason Blizzard lost most of their developers, creators and got taken over by a company that loves opinions like these.
    "Why not replace fake gold with IRL Cash!"

    RIght now Blizzard is under big heat, None of their IP's are going strong at all anymore and they still dare to throw shit like this.

    Blizzard is just asking to be shut down.

  15. #595
    Scarab Lord SinR's Avatar
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    What's the difference between a WoW token seller and someone that played the AH?

    "WOW TOKEN SELLER BUYING GEAR IS BAD BUT ITS OK THAT DUDE PLAYED THE AH BUYS HIS GEAR FROM MYTHIC RAIDERS BECAUSE HE PUT THE EFFORT IN!"


    You see folks the main issue here is Boosting. That is the player created problem that people are refusing to offer *ANY* form of fix for. Pulling the WoW token is not a fix for the boosting problem, as someone can play AH or grind their ass off can buy gear and boosts and that's somehow PERFECTLY FINE.

    *Pulls out his Copium and takes a deep hit*
    There's also the Skill Problem. So what if you have this gear, you get stomped into the ground by anyone in PVP with half a brain and blown the fuck up by the mechanics in a Mythic Raid and/or Mythic+ Environment.
    *Offers the Copium to everyone in the thread*
    I swear y'all gotta hit this shit, you'll feel better I swear
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  16. #596
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    Not only have you shown a lack of basic manners and intellect necessary to have a normal discussion with someone on a simple topic such as this, but you're also continuously reinforcing your strawman; nowhere have I said that Blizzard is bad for manipulating token prices nor have I said that they're purposely incentivizing boosting. That they "do not give a fuck" in regards to all of this is the one and only thing that you're correct about. I'll stop entertaining you with further replies, unless you miraculously get yourself together sometime in the future.


    Look at that HUGE increase in WoW token prices after the Brutosaur's discontinuation was announced.
    New BiS for 9.1!

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  17. #597
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post


    Look at that HUGE increase in WoW token prices after the Brutosaur's discontinuation was announced.
    Once again, a strawman. At this point you're talking to yourself and seriously need to first understand what it is that you're replying to and which point it is that you're trying to make.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-09-09 at 04:21 PM.

  18. #598
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    What's the difference between a WoW token seller and someone that played the AH?

    "WOW TOKEN SELLER BUYING GEAR IS BAD BUT ITS OK THAT DUDE PLAYED THE AH BUYS HIS GEAR FROM MYTHIC RAIDERS BECAUSE HE PUT THE EFFORT IN!"


    You see folks the main issue here is Boosting. That is the player created problem that people are refusing to offer *ANY* form of fix for. Pulling the WoW token is not a fix for the boosting problem, as someone can play AH or grind their ass off can buy gear and boosts and that's somehow PERFECTLY FINE.

    *Pulls out his Copium and takes a deep hit*
    There's also the Skill Problem. So what if you have this gear, you get stomped into the ground by anyone in PVP with half a brain and blown the fuck up by the mechanics in a Mythic Raid and/or Mythic+ Environment.
    *Offers the Copium to everyone in the thread*
    I swear y'all gotta hit this shit, you'll feel better I swear
    whoa whoa whoa, we do not criticize player created issues on here. are you mad?? has that copium gone to your brain?

  19. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    Once again, a strawman. At this point you're talking to yourself and seriously need to first understand what it is that you're replying to and which point you're trying to reinforce.
    Blizzard is not manipulating token prices. Plain and simple.
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  20. #600
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Blizzard is not manipulating token prices. Plain and simple.
    How does the graph you've posted reinforce that position? It in fact speaks against it.

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