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  1. #621
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    The current level of gold that you get for buying a WoW token is already too high to begin with. We don't have to talk about them making it higher becausae it is already too high. The current price is already too high for the amount of gold players can make in the game.

    They've removed all ways for players to make gold as easily as they did in WoD and Legion, they've introduced massive gold sinks in the meantime and now the WoW token is the most effective way for players to make gold in relation to time invested. This is the crux of the matter.
    that STILL doesnt address the problem - if the price is too high less people will want to buy it, so they will sell less tokens..
    bcs all those massive sinks are non-necesary, so if the token price is higher they just wont buy it, or they will buy gold from someone else, that is still possible without any issues, so less tokens sold and less profit for blizz...

    and people at blizz might be stupid when it comes to design, but they ar not stupid when it comes to money, so they will do whats best for their income - let it naturaly move to equilibrium

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    If the WoW token-to-gold rate was "natural", then it would've been in freefall since the start of BfA, which is when they've eliminated all forms of easy gold making and introduced the single biggest goldsink in WoW's history.
    eh.. just no
    your conspiracy theory (and sorry, but yes it is conspiracy theory as you have nothing behind it, not even economics) is faulty, bcs amount of people willing to buy token will only DECREASE if you keep the price high, which will in turn decrease amount of people buying it from blizz which will decrease their revenue...
    blizz keeping the price artificialy high would be shoting themself into the foot, thats why it makes no sense...
    Last edited by Lolites; 2021-09-09 at 05:20 PM.

  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    aha...so they remain the same but you also point out that the prices for a given boosting price are dropping?

    Which, you know, could be caused by
    (1) Less buyers (because less players means less buyers)
    (2) People use different services (PvP boosts; Raids)

    Considering they are the easiest way for a large group of people to acquire gold, i think that's wishful thinking on your part.

    Frankly, passive gold income hasn't been that amazing since WoD and it's also not very likely that a lot of people are drawing upon gold reserves from an expansion that ended 5 years ago.
    I mean I still have millions from WoD, almost everyone in my guild/circle still has their wod gold, too.
    Do you actually play?

  3. #623
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    that STILL doesnt address the problem - if the price is too high less people will want to buy it, so they will sell less tokens..
    I am saying that the amount of gold that you get for a token is kept artificially high; I'm not saying that they are increasing the amount of real money you pay for a token.

    Why would less people buy the WoW token if the amount of gold given was artificially high, which it currently is? One could argue that the equal number of buyers would buy less WoW tokens, but there wouldn't be less buyers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    eh.. just no
    your conspiracy theory (and sorry, but yes it is conspiracy theory as you have nothing behind it, not even economics) is faulty, bcs amount of people willing to buy token will only DECREASE if you keep the price high, which will in turn decrease amount of people buying it from blizz which will decrease their revenue...
    blizz keeping the price artificialy high would be shoting themself into the foot, thats why it makes no sense...
    Why would the number of players buying the WoW token to get gold in the game decrease, when the current artificially high level of gold that you get for a token is the most effective way to make gold? That is only if you believe that every WoW token that you buy for gold is bought by someone else and not spawned by Blizzard in return for you dumping your gold.

    The most basic aspects of any economy speak in favour of the fact that the WoW token is giving too much gold and that it isn't a "naturally determined" value.

    I'll draw it for you:

    1. Blizzard's WoW token was 35k gold at the end of WoD/start of Legion, when players were making much more gold in the game than they're now;
    2. Blizzard's WoW token is nearing 200k gold in the middle of Shadowlands, when players are making much less gold than they were when it was 35k gold;
    3. Players who see buying WoW tokens as the most effective way for making gold in the shortest amount of time buy a token because Blizzard has removed previously available ingame forms of earning gold;
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-09-09 at 05:28 PM.

  4. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    I am saying that the amount of gold that you get for a token is kept artificially high; I'm not saying that they are increasing the amount of real money you pay for a token.

    Why would less people buy the WoW token if the amount of gold given was artificially high, which it currently is? One could argue that the equal number of buyers would buy less WoW tokens, but there wouldn't be less buyers.
    buy economics textbook, find chapter about relationship of supply and demand and read, im done repeating myself

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    Why would the number of players buying the WoW token to get gold in the game decrease, when the current artificially high level of gold that you get for a token is the most effective way to make gold? That is only if you believe that every WoW token that you buy for gold is bought by someone else and not spawned by Blizzard in return for you dumping your gold.
    are you misunderstanding me on purpose?! bcs this is ridiculous...
    seriously get some economics course or get your gf/wife or whoever to manage your family budget, bcs it seems like you dont understand the very basics of economics...

  5. #625
    Lol , I don't understand why people complain about this. It in no way makes you a better player or adds strength to your character. Some , not all of the folks complaining are playing FFXIV where some of the best mounts and mogs are in the cash shop. I would say FFXIV cash shop is twice as bad as wows. But you hear crickets when you start talking about that.....Just saying.

  6. #626
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    buy economics textbook, find chapter about relationship of supply and demand and read, im done repeating myself
    You don't need to repeat yourself because there is no "supply and demand" to talk about; to talk about supply and demand, you would have to have the numbers available to correlate. You're speaking of supply and demand as if Blizzard couldn't just be spawning WoW tokens without anyone buying them.

    You can talk about supply and demand once you have the exact number of WoW tokens bought by customers available. How can you talk about supply and demand when you don't even know how many tokens are supplied to back the current conversion rate to gold up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    are you misunderstanding me on purpose?! bcs this is ridiculous...
    seriously get some economics course or get your gf/wife or whoever to manage your family budget, bcs it seems like you dont understand the very basics of economics...
    Your parents should do the world a favour and stop footing your internet bill.

    You're talking about supply and demand without even knowing the number of tokens supplied, in order to observe the trend.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-09-09 at 05:36 PM.

  7. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManOluck View Post
    Honestly who wants this?


    These transmogs are way more visually striking and most likely will offer more particle effects and other enhancements than in game items. Honestly everyone needs to protest this crap before it gets out of control. These are new appearences that can be used for unique events like Mage Tower 2.0 or other game feats of strength.....


    How are people ok with this?
    Most people want it?

    Blizzard is one of the few games that are very behind in terms of what the cash shop offers.

    Every other game has plenty of cosmetics in their shops, it's time for blizzard to join the party.

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  8. #628
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    I mean I still have millions from WoD, almost everyone in my guild/circle still has their wod gold, too.
    Do you actually play?
    So...your evidence is anecdotally?

    If you think that a sizeable portion managed garrisons on a multitude of alts every day to make millions of gold, i think you have skewed perception.

  9. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    You don't need to repeat yourself because there is no "supply and demand" to talk about; to talk about supply and demand, you would have to have the numbers available to correlate. You're speaking of supply and demand as if Blizzard couldn't just be spawning WoW tokens without anyone buying them.

    You can talk about supply and demand once you have the exact number of WoW tokens bought by customers available. How can you talk about supply and demand when you don't even know how many tokens are supplied to back the current conversion rate to gold up.
    Buddy, the absence of proof is not proof.
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  10. #630
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Buddy, the absence of proof is not proof.
    I am not the one talking about unprovable trends like he is; I'm the one taking observable trends, which is the only thing we can use. I am not using his lack of proof to back my position; I am using comparisons between the amount of gold players are spawning into the virtual economy, the goldsinks available and the historic value of WoW tokens.

    You've described my position yourself and there is no way you can argue that what Blizzard is doing isn't a superb business practice:

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses
    So instead of simple supply and demand dictating the price, it's actually Blizzard fucking with everything behind the scenes because they want to make gold artificially more difficult to obtain so they can reap the benefits of tokens...
    If Blizzard isn't spawning gold for players who buy WoW tokens for real money and if Blizzad isn't spawning WoW tokens for players who are giving their gold in exchange for a WoW token ingame, then there is absolutely no way that the natural trends of everything that happened since BfA's start would allow the WoW token to give the absurdly high amount of gold that it does now.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-09-09 at 05:43 PM.

  11. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    I am not the one talking about unprovable trends like he is; I'm the one taking observable trends, which is the only thing we can use. I am not using his lack of proof to back my position; I am using comparisons between the amount of gold players are spawning into the virtual economy, the goldsinks available and the historic value of WoW tokens.
    You don't know the amount of gold being infused into the economy any more than anybody else.
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  12. #632
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    You don't know the amount of gold being infused into the economy any more than anybody else.
    you are wasting your time, he have his conspiracy theory and nothing, not even reality can change his mind
    but im only accountant, what would i know about economics right?

  13. #633
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    You don't know the amount of gold being infused into the economy any more than anybody else.
    We can make a relative conclusion about the movement of the trend though.

    More gold was being infused into the virtual economy of WoW at the end of WoD than it is now. If players were making more gold in WoD, when the token was giving 35k gold, then there is absolutely no way that the token naturally remains at a near to 200k gold exchange rate in an expansion in which it is much more difficult to make gold. This isn't natural movement.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-09-09 at 05:50 PM.

  14. #634
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    You don't know the amount of gold being infused into the economy any more than anybody else.
    You don't need a precise number unless your trying to argue 5k gold now is the same as 5k in tbc?

    I hate people who have to have a university backed study to accept basic observational trends.

  15. #635
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    you are wasting your time, he have his conspiracy theory and nothing, not even reality can change his mind
    but im only accountant, what would i know about economics right?
    You are talking about supply and demand as if we are talking about apples on a fruitstand and as if you knew the precise amount of apples on it and the entire market. WoW tokens are not apples on a fruitstand.

    Everything you wrote makes absolutely no sense in a virtual economy like WoW, where Blizzard is the owner of all economic trends. You could be ten times the accountant and you still wouldn't be able to tell the difference between real-life supply and demand and this virtual one, where you have no guarantee that Blizzard isn't spawning tokens and gold whenever someone wants to make a transaction. You are assuming that the amount of gold given for a WoW token is determined by the number of WoW tokens bought for real money, which historic gold conversion rates clearly speak against.

    There is no supply and demand because it is not an exchange between the player buying the WoW token for real money and the player giving his gold for a token. They deal with Blizzard. Natural supply and demand has no intermediary that conjures what is supplied and demanded.





    Whenever someone pays real money for a WoW token and decides to convert it to gold in the game, Blizzard spawns a fixed amount of gold for them without any other player first giving that gold. Whenever someone wants to buy a WoW token for their gold in the game, Blizzard spawns a WoW token for them without anyone having bought the WoW token with real money in the first place. That is how it works, this is why the "supply and demand" doesn't impact them and that is how they're preventing a massive dip in token-to-gold conversion rates ever since the end of WoD; they however first artificially raised the value of the token fivefold in order to make it lucrative to buy and then removed the efficiency of all ingame means of acquiring gold that existed previously. Most of you who argue using "supply and demand" assume that every WoW token given for gold would have had to be bought by someone else first. You also believe that whenever someone converts a WoW token that they bought for real money, that they're getting gold from another player. This simply isn't true because the historic value of the WoW token in the game gold speaks against it. If it was a nautrally moving token-to-gold conversion rate, we'd be seeing spikes that are massive.

    If supply and demand was a thing with WoW tokens, then there would be massive spikes and dips throughout its history. It is instead showing an incredibly stable trend, which will never be possible in a naturally moving environment.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-09-09 at 06:16 PM.

  16. #636
    Quote Originally Posted by ManOluck View Post
    Honestly who wants this?


    These transmogs are way more visually striking and most likely will offer more particle effects and other enhancements than in game items. Honestly everyone needs to protest this crap before it gets out of control. These are new appearences that can be used for unique events like Mage Tower 2.0 or other game feats of strength.....


    How are people ok with this?
    b.c the game has exclusive gear for the "elite" Mythic raiding, M+, rated PVP... cash shop is good for casuals and those that have the disposable income for it vs. play time.
    Member: Shadow Lands Alpha Club, Member since 4/9/2020

  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    Most people want it?

    Blizzard is one of the few games that are very behind in terms of what the cash shop offers.

    Every other game has plenty of cosmetics in their shops, it's time for blizzard to join the party.
    I don't know about most people wanting it but I certainly do lol and you know what else I want in the wow cash shop?



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  18. #638
    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    You don't need a precise number unless your trying to argue 5k gold now is the same as 5k in tbc?

    I hate people who have to have a university backed study to accept basic observational trends.
    It is a really simple trend to observe indeed.

  19. #639
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    The current level of gold that you get for buying a WoW token is already too high to begin with. We don't have to talk about them making it higher becausae it is already too high. The current price is already too high for the amount of gold players can make in the game.

    They've removed all ways for players to make gold as easily as they did in WoD and Legion, they've introduced massive gold sinks in the meantime and now the WoW token is the most effective way for players to make gold in relation to time invested. This is the crux of the matter.

    If the WoW token-to-gold rate was "natural", then it would've been in freefall since the start of BfA, which is when they've eliminated all forms of easy gold making and introduced the single biggest goldsink in WoW's history.
    Token price is in a pretty decent spot for the amount you can make, especially with a few alts. As someone who didn't enjoy the followers minigame in WoD this is the easiest I've ever been able to get gold.

  20. #640
    Quote Originally Posted by Empower View Post
    You don't need a precise number unless your trying to argue 5k gold now is the same as 5k in tbc?

    I hate people who have to have a university backed study to accept basic observational trends.
    The entirety of his argument is based on information nobody on this forum will ever be able to articulate. We have no idea how much new gold has entered the economy so it is impossible for us to correlate the amount of gold in the economy with the price of the WoW token. @Magnagarde wants to argue that since we can't know this information, the only logical deduction that can be made is that since Blizzard is a company and companies like money that Blizzard is using the WoW token to manipulate players by intentionally making gold scarce. This reads like a pretty standard conspiracy theory in my eyes... an improvable assumption which relies on "common sense" to fill in the blanks for information that is impossible to argue against. The counter-position is that the token's value is a result of supply and demand... which is exactly the extent of the information we know about how the token works. Seeing as I much prefer to deal with terms and ideas that are the result of things we can verify (ie, what Blizzard has told us), I'd much prefer to err on the side of them not lying about how their product works.
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