Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Testiculos View Post
    This makes shadowlands a bit trivial and weak just like how they made there is only one legion in all realities thing. Billions of worlds , countless realities yet a few demons are a huge threat?
    They were a threat because of Argus'soul accelerating their rebirth in the twisting nether making them close to infinite.
    Blizz could have better shown in game the multitude of alien beings by creating a few models unrelated to azeroth or the covenants realm and placing them in the maw , instead we see every ghost there being azeroth races.
    Last edited by valax; 2021-09-05 at 11:05 PM.

  2. #22
    Scarab Lord Sugho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    4,345
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Yes
    Coz time doesn't matter in SL, only eternity
    Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, why do I have to fuse with someone who is totally different from me and lived a completely different life?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugho View Post
    Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, why do I have to fuse with someone who is totally different from me and lived a completely different life?
    Coz Danuser is idiot

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugho View Post
    Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, why do I have to fuse with someone who is totally different from me and lived a completely different life?
    In the universal sense because each is a reflection of you, an infinite variation of the base that is "sugho". As time continues the infinite "sugho" will collect into the eternal and final complete "sugho" in the shadowlands when all living versions die. It isn't a question of why do you have to fuse, but why would you not fuse with yourself, not collect more memories and essences of yourself in order to be a more complete self.

    You fuse with them because while they "aren't you", they still are you, just a you with different experiences/lives. I feel like the movie "The One" with Jet Li is a fair example of how this looks in another format.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  5. #25
    Scarab Lord Sugho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    4,345
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    In the universal sense because each is a reflection of you, an infinite variation of the base that is "sugho". As time continues the infinite "sugho" will collect into the eternal and final complete "sugho" in the shadowlands when all living versions die. It isn't a question of why do you have to fuse, but why would you not fuse with yourself, not collect more memories and essences of yourself in order to be a more complete self.

    You fuse with them because while they "aren't you", they still are you, just a you with different experiences/lives. I feel like the movie "The One" with Jet Li is a fair example of how this looks in another format.
    That's a good way of seeing it but let's say the first Sugho dies at age 50 and the final Sugho somehow lives for 5000 years. What will the first Sugho do in the Shadowlands until his last version arrives there? And when the other versions of Sugho arrive, there will be a lot of more things to attune for or to accept before moving on. It will just be a really long process of dealing with things just to do it all over again once every new Sugho arrives.

    Oh, I remember that movie, but I watched it a long time ago.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugho View Post
    That's a good way of seeing it but let's say the first Sugho dies at age 50 and the final Sugho somehow lives for 5000 years. What will the first Sugho do in the Shadowlands until his last version arrives there?
    Live a life in one of the various shadowlands realms (remember we are only seeing 4 of a neigh infinite amount of potential resting areas) based on where the Arbiter (assuming Sugho was sent before the shadowlands broke) decided. They will will then have 4950 years of living there before the 5000 year old Sugho is fused into them with their collective life/experiences. The first few fusions would be disorienting for the first Sugho, but after a while I Imagine it will be similar to a realistic dream IRL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugho View Post
    And when the other versions of Sugho arrive, there will be a lot of more things to attune for or to accept before moving on. It will just be a really long process of dealing with things just to do it all over again once every new Sugho arrives.
    Again for the first Sugho and the first few fused Sughos, yes. I tend to be of the belief that after a while the new Sughos wouldn't be disorienting because at one point Sugho would have a concrete view of who they are at their core, a neigh immutable Sugho, and any new fusions would either be confirmations or regarded as basically "though experiments" of what Sugho could have been. Much like real life experiences help shape us, unless something completely earth shattering happens at a certain point humans develop a sense of self that is very hard to change.

    If it helps, think of the real life concept of chairs, there are many chairs, they have very different shapes, but in order to be a chair they have to fulfill a set function, or they are disregarded as chairs. For Sugho there are many various "selfs/chairs" that they can reflect upon, and if some Sugho/chair gets really off/ is no longer a chair, it is regarded as such and not taken in as what Sugho/the chair is, but what could have been in another universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugho View Post
    Oh, I remember that movie, but I watched it a long time ago.
    I enjoyed it, was a fun little action movie.
    Last edited by bledgor; 2021-09-06 at 01:17 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  7. #27
    It's depressing that there's never going to be a way to close the narrative trainwreck that this expansion is. Everything else could have been explained away, now you have this absolute joke as the "afterlife".

  8. #28
    Scarab Lord Sugho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    4,345
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Live a life in one of the various shadowlands realms (remember we are only seeing 4 of a neigh infinite amount of potential resting areas) based on where the Arbiter (assuming Sugho was sent before the shadowlands broke) decided. They will will then have 4950 years of living there before the 5000 year old Sugho is fused into them with their collective life/experiences. The first few fusions would be disorienting for the first Sugho, but after a while I Imagine it will be similar to a realistic dream IRL.

    Again for the first Sugho and the first few fused Sughos, yes. I tend to be of the belief that after a while the new Sughos wouldn't be disorienting because at one point Sugho would have a concrete few of who they are, and any new fusions would either be confirmations or regarded as basically "though experiments" of what Sugho could have been. Much like real life experiences help shape us, unless something completely earth shattering happens at a certain point humans develop a sense of self that is very hard to change.

    I enjoyed it, was a fun little action movie.
    Nice way of putting things again but all that seems way too much, if there is some kind of afterlife I hope it's not that complicated.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    but isnt shadowlands supposed to be azeroth reflection? at least thats what it shows on the login screen, and was shown in the cinematic trailer with sylvanas on top of icecrown

    i dont know anything about the lore ingame. i didnt play shadowlands at all, i dont even own it
    Torghast came first, Icecrown's design was due to the Jailor's influence even if he didn't manage to take control.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugho View Post
    Nice way of putting things again but all that seems way too much, if there is some kind of afterlife I hope it's not that complicated.
    IN a way, but when you think about life, a lot of things are too much, think about the scale of the universe, concepts like blackholes, life and death. The world is a big complex place, and we are just here for a short ride. I personally find such though experiments kind of fun, because there is way too much unknown that humans may never comprehend.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  11. #31
    Scarab Lord Sugho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    4,345
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    IN a way, but when you think about life, a lot of things are too much, think about the scale of the universe, concepts like blackholes, life and death. The world is a big complex place, and we are just here for a short ride. I personally find such though experiments kind of fun, because there is way too much unknown that humans may never comprehend.
    I also think it's fun, it kinda sucks dying and not knowing how everything works tho. Would be cool if you reached some place after you died where all is revealed to you. And after some angel or whatever entity explains in to you, and you see it for yourself, you just go like: "It makes perfect sense! I was just too limited to see it before."

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugho View Post
    I also think it's fun, it kinda sucks dying and not knowing how everything works tho. Would be cool if you reached some place after you died where all is revealed to you. And after some angel or whatever entity explains in to you, and you see it for yourself, you just go like: "It makes perfect sense! I was just too limited to see it before."
    To be fair, a lot of science/human learning is that. Besides it helps me to think that even if nothing exists as far as an afterlife after we die, we will return to earth were our particles will be used by other creatures/plant life in the future, because as we know nothing can create or destroy matter, so therefore our constituent parts will forever be around, even if they are no longer parts of us.

    Our parts once came from the stars, and in return in billions of years when the sun consumes the earth we will return to the stars.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  13. #33
    The Shadowlands are, presumably, filled with countless quadrillion souls, and yet we mostly experience recognisably Azerothian humanoids - elves, Tauren, humans, orc-like beings, etc, and recognisably Azerothian environments. This is an understandable limitation of the game, of course. Nobody expects the developers to design a thousand different alien models for the expansion.

    So how do we reconcile this in-character? The Shadowlands adapt themselves to the beings experiencing them. A 45th century Earth human would experience something quite different from XXLegolasssDK from Azeroth, and something quite different again from a two-dimensional quantum entity dwelling on the surface of a neutron star. Which is why the expansion fails, really. The SL are just so...mundane. Wait until the good, common folks of Azeroth hear what awaits them in the eternal afterlife; at the very least it should cause massive societal change (forget the Burning Legion, or that lame metal dragon).

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
    The Shadowlands are, presumably, filled with countless quadrillion souls, and yet we mostly experience recognisably Azerothian humanoids - elves, Tauren, humans, orc-like beings, etc, and recognisably Azerothian environments. This is an understandable limitation of the game, of course. Nobody expects the developers to design a thousand different alien models for the expansion.

    So how do we reconcile this in-character? The Shadowlands adapt themselves to the beings experiencing them. A 45th century Earth human would experience something quite different from XXLegolasssDK from Azeroth, and something quite different again from a two-dimensional quantum entity dwelling on the surface of a neutron star. Which is why the expansion fails, really. The SL are just so...mundane. Wait until the good, common folks of Azeroth hear what awaits them in the eternal afterlife; at the very least it should cause massive societal change (forget the Burning Legion, or that lame metal dragon).
    See the issue is we only see a infinite small part of the shadowlands, even if it is the most important/fundamental part. Would a human from Azeroth believe all of the crazy bullshit we adventurers have experience going from world to world, fighting old gods and titans? Could you/your hero have enjoyed/lived a life as a simple farmer that lives in a small farm town? Life is a reflection of the experiences you encounter/engage with, some of it will be satisfactory, some of it will be shit/suck, the fact you didnt experience other things is only a reflection of the limitations of being a limited being in an infinite universe.

    As for shadowlands and the lack of non-azeroth/draenor/creatures we have seen, while yes more a technical issue, I also can envision it has a limitation of our "selves" to perceive things as they truly are, and instead they conform to forms we recognize/can comprehend, as it allows creatures to function, were as the infinite variations of the cosmos could readily drive creatures insane when they arrive otherwise.
    Last edited by bledgor; 2021-09-06 at 01:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  15. #35
    Scarab Lord Sugho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    4,345
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    To be fair, a lot of science/human learning is that. Besides it helps me to think that even if nothing exists as far as an afterlife after we die, we will return to earth were our particles will be used by other creatures/plant life in the future, because as we know nothing can create or destroy matter, so therefore our constituent parts will forever be around, even if they are no longer parts of us.

    Our parts once came from the stars, and in return in billions of years when the sun consumes the earth we will return to the stars.
    Agreed and that's all poetic and stuff but even if our particles are here, does it really matter unless they have conscience of our past selves? Because life to me it's mostly about conscience. Even when we talk about literal reincarnation, why does it matter if you don't remember consciously what you did before?

    Late night philosophy and talks about the Universe, love it!

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    See the issue is we only see a infinite small part of the shadowlands, even if it is the most important/fundamental part.
    I think the designers missed a trick here. The Shadowlands zones are small and cramped. I'd like them to give the illusion of being infinitely large through creative skybox use (recall the excellent Argus skyboxes).

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugho View Post
    Agreed and that's all poetic and stuff but even if our particles are here, does it really matter unless they have conscience of our past selves? Because life to me it's mostly about conscience. Even when we talk about literal reincarnation, why does it matter if you don't remember consciously what you did before?

    Late night philosophy and talks about the Universe, love it!
    While true, the lack of eternity, the certainty of death is fundamentally how we function/find purpose in life. If humans lived forever, we might still be very primitive as our lifespan forces us to adapt and grow and change rapidly. As for mattering, the universe is billions of years old, and will continue to exist as we know it for billions upon billions upon billions of years, and will exist as a concept for a googol of years at least. In such a time scale does anything in existence matter, when stars and there formations/lives are just a blip on the cosmic time scale, when even blackholes live and die? Yet none of that matters as I will continue to exist and be, and as long as I can live life doing things I enjoy what really matters?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
    I think the designers missed a trick here. The Shadowlands zones are small and cramped. I'd like them to give the illusion of being infinitely large through creative skybox use (recall the excellent Argus skyboxes).
    Look at the skybox of the arbiter/around oribos and realize the hundreds of portals visable are gateways to other afterlifes like basion/maldraxxus/etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  18. #38
    Scarab Lord Sugho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    4,345
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    While true, the lack of eternity, the certainty of death is fundamentally how we function/find purpose in life. If humans lived forever, we might still be very primitive as our lifespan forces us to adapt and grow and change rapidly. As for mattering, the universe is billions of years old, and will continue to exist as we know it for billions upon billions upon billions of years, and will exist as a concept for a googol of years at least. In such a time scale does anything in existence matter, when stars and there formations/lives are just a blip on the cosmic time scale, when even blackholes live and die? Yet none of that matters as I will continue to exist and be, and as long as I can live life doing things I enjoy what really matters?
    Not sure about that, living for a long time may have sucked in the past but not so much nowadays, in not that many decades we will have countless lifelike virtual worlds to explore. ~80 years seems like a very short trial on a game with infinite possibilities. Hope it's just a demo before you are allowed on the retail version. :P

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugho View Post
    Not sure about that, living for a long time may have sucked in the past but not so much nowadays, in not that many decades we will have countless lifelike virtual worlds to explore. ~80 years seems like a very short trial on a game with infinite possibilities. Hope it's just a demo before you are allowed on the retail version. :P
    Who knows, I love to watch this video once a month, it helps me realize the fun craziness, and amaziness that is existence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD4izuDMUQA
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  20. #40
    Scarab Lord Sugho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    4,345
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Who knows, I love to watch this video once a month, it helps me realize the fun craziness, and amaziness that is existence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD4izuDMUQA
    *Replying while watching*

    I also like to watch these kind of videos and others with future timelines about technology and stuff, I don't know, they just help me relax. We are going into off-topic area I guess.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •