How would you extend the dwarves' role and lore since Cataclysm ?

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

We should have also seen more interactions between dwarves clans and the other races of the Alliance, for example Wildhammer could have developped a strong bond with Night Elves over their love and reverence for nature with wldhammers learning druidism from them if they don't already have druids like the Kul Tirans Thornspeaker and the Gilnean Harvest Witches, or the Dark Irons with the Gnomes who should be distrustful of them after their actions against them such as their alliance with Sicco Thermaplugg and the humans of Stormwind who also have some historical feud with dark irons.

[mickybrighteyes]

I can buy Varian as Supreme Commander of the Alliance to prosecute the war against the Horde, but not a dictator. After he died, Muradin should have probably become the next Supreme Commander leading the war effort.

I'm not sure Muradin has the presence that the masses would care for though it might make for a good set up to incite infighting amoung dwarven councilmembers about someone getting more influence.

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And yet they managed to deal with them just fine without this help and with a small or medium amount of forces. And Ice Trolls didn't really have the numbers or firepower to really threaten Ironforge and the rest of major towns or military base.

except that Varian and Moira rallying forces to deal with them implies otherwise

Also I think that neither Muradin nor Falstad would have been unwilling to lend their help to Danath Trollbane and the people of Stromgarde, for being allies but also because Danath is an old comrade and friend of them as well as Kurdran's best friend, and to relieve Aerie Peak and the Hinterlands in case of a Horde threat. For Moira it could have been an opportunity to show that she and Dark Irons aren't that untrustworthy other than with the Ice Trolls' storyline, but also to show the advantages of having them as allies with their golems, their knowledge and mastery of magic and their own unique tech.

Dark Irons were literally putting the city under martial law until the Human king put an end to things.... a token display of kinship to prove trust worthiness isn't going to go very far nvm that there was already a lack of trust brought up on both fronts between the nobles and the fact that she had a Dark Iron child.

spreading forces out from the kingdom that was having issues to try and prove they don't need to have those issues is a fool hardy move on a rulers part. You send out the forces you don't trust while you consolidate rule. The wildhammers might have been willing to foot some people in the north cause of proximity but that's about it. The bronze beards would want folk home in case darkirons act up and dark irons would want to stay put in case bronzebeards want to get froggy (this was basically why Moira declared Martial Law).... a few months of Varian imposed truce isn't going to magically make everyone easy going.

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Thing is; they're unified now and therefore boring.

it's weird... they ARE unified but with old issues burried until they have someone pull a short one off quest or someone has a decent /silly to share.

Also racism, the entire Alliance gets along, therefore it's dull. If the Dwarves believed that all elves were poncey knife ears and all elves believed that the dwarves were stubborn and arrogant then we could begin to develop things.

You could create stories about racial tensions, but also stories about individuals realising that they aren't so different, and that they're people ultimately.

There have been little bits of tension between groups among the alliance... but generally it's lost in the general feel good united presence of the leaders' intentions. Rogers getting a nice little blood bath going just forgotten while everything else moves along. Racial jokes for intergroups among the alliance are like g-rated nicknames at best.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

I'm not sure Muradin has the presence that the masses would care for though it might make for a good set up to incite infighting amoung dwarven councilmembers about someone getting more influence.

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except that Varian and Moira rallying forces to deal with them implies otherwise


Dark Irons were literally putting the city under martial law until the Human king put an end to things.... a token display of kinship to prove trust worthiness isn't going to go very far nvm that there was already a lack of trust brought up on both fronts between the nobles and the fact that she had a Dark Iron child.

spreading forces out from the kingdom that was having issues to try and prove they don't need to have those issues is a fool hardy move on a rulers part. You send out the forces you don't trust while you consolidate rule. The wildhammers might have been willing to foot some people in the north cause of proximity but that's about it. The bronze beards would want folk home in case darkirons act up and dark irons would want to stay put in case bronzebeards want to get froggy (this was basically why Moira declared Martial Law).... a few months of Varian imposed truce isn't going to magically make everyone easy going.

While the fact that Varian and Moria were able of beating the Ice Trolls without too much trouble without that help, and that the Ice Trolls were said to be a threat to IF but that their numbers, lack of real discipline and great weaponery or even magical means also contradict these statements about them being able of posing a major threat to IF.

In that case the writers and devs really failed to give us genuine reasons to believe that the Ice Trolls were a really mortal threat and had the means to invade and conquer Ironforge other than a few words.

Also two years passed between the beggining of Cataclysm and MoP, meaning that the situation had changed between the book the Shattering and the discovery of Pandaria, and the dwarves did have the means to send forces north to help their allies and Wildhammer kin, and I doubt that Muradin, who's an old friend and comrade of Danath, nor Moira who needed to show the strength and trustworthiness of the Dark Irons would have refused to send help to Stromgarde forever especially if Falstad and the rest of the Alliance pressured them to do so.

[mickybrighteyes]

Also two years passed between the beggining of Cataclysm and MoP, meaning that the situation had changed between the book the Shattering and the discovery of Pandaria, and the dwarves did have the means to send forces north to help their allies and Wildhammer kin, and I doubt that Muradin, who's an old friend and comrade of Danath, nor Moira who needed to show the strength and trustworthiness of the Dark Irons would have refused to send help to Stromgarde forever especially if Falstad and the rest of the Alliance pressured them to do so.

Two years is either a very short time frame to sit around acting like they can mobilize forces to send off on month long ONE WAY trips across the world and nevermind that it's a hilarious short period of time to genuinely unite anyone.... I'd say look to RL for proof of that but that'd get way off topic fast.

honestly, It's nice to imagine the vasrious powers that be jumping to send troops wherever for whatever... but I don't see cata's era really making that a good idea without tossing out logistics entirely and everyone forgetting the options of backstabbing, betrayal and being general opportunists.... I know that's how the current lore works for Alliance side but it's not really good plot.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Thing is; they're unified now and therefore boring.

If the Wildhammer, Dark Iron and Bronzebeard dwarves were constantly trying to undermine eachother, if they had a senate filled with political intrigue, with senators trying to pin things on the council, advance their own careers and so on THEN they would be interesting again.

Say a Dark Iron traditionalist began trying to sway other more moderate Dark Iron dwarves back to the old ways of worshipping Ragnaros
Say a racist Bronzebeard didn't trust otherwise trustworthy Dark Irons and decided to make the first move
Perhaps a Wildhammer might feel that his people are persecuted or looked down upon within the mountain capital of the dwarves and begins to cause tension

What does Moira do when she stands to lose the majority support of her people for being a moderate?
How does the otherwise honourable Muradin Bronzebeard react when his people exhibit racist behavior and employ underhanded tacticts?
And what if Falstad actually agreed with his people and moved for more inclusivity within the city costing valuable resources?

Stuff like that.

Also racism, the entire Alliance gets along, therefore it's dull. If the Dwarves believed that all elves were poncey knife ears and all elves believed that the dwarves were stubborn and arrogant then we could begin to develop things.

You could create stories about racial tensions, but also stories about individuals realising that they aren't so different, and that they're people ultimately.

It's also really ridiculous how comically easy it was for the Moira and the Dark Irons to be accepted by the other races of the Alliance, given the Dark Iron's backstabbing culture and history, past association with Ragnaros and ambigious relations with the Old Horde, their use of dark magics and them having been also foes of the gnomes and Stormwind.

There was some potential to exploit by showing not only their cousins', but also the rest of the Alliance's wariness about the Dark Irons and to see the Dark Irons and Moira really doing things to begin to earn some trust.

As such they would have been put in several situations where they'd have to accept helping others and making amends or concessions to not lose the Alliance's fragile trust and support and to take part in operations where they wouldn't want to be engaged as a result.